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Thread: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

  1. #76

    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Herb MIGHT go over for the right player. A franchise changer like Eric Gordon, or Carmelo Anthony.
    Which way are you wanting to change the franchise ??

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  3. #77

    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    No, Hill was brought in under Larry. He was extended under Donnie, but Larry traded Leonard for him.
    Yeah I meant re-signed, sorry. But I don't think Larry would've paid that extension with LW having become available the same off season. And I know he would've passed on Ian.

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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

    So people understand how the tax works now. I even forgot that it doesn't start at 1 to 1 anymore before going up; it starts at 1.5 to 1; ouch!

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  6. #79

    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Herb MIGHT go over for the right player. A franchise changer like Eric Gordon, or Carmelo Anthony. But not for just anyone, and that's actually smart.
    Eric Gordon is a franchise changer like Mike Dunleavy was a franchise changer.

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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Eric Gordon is a franchise changer like Mike Dunleavy was a franchise changer.
    Ouch.

  9. #81
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    I quite honestly have no clue how people keep using this "go over the LT" as an argument when the owner AND the president have repeatedly stated they wont go over.
    When they did it was in 2000, 2004 and 2005-06 and see what that got them, really think LB i going back to Herb saying "Herbie i think we should risk another 10-20 million of your money on it, we may ahve a real winner this time"
    I think that ship sailed at the Palace of Auburn Hills.

    as for impact ? if i remember correctly (and i'm getting older so don't hold me to that) then we went about 11 mio over the limit so the cost was just that, since most teams were reasonable close (we were the nr 2 or 3 payroll that year) the total loss was our share of getting paid the LT (estimated 2 mio) and the LT itself, so our total damage was about 13 million to see the brawl.
    today if as you propose, we sign lance to 12-14 mio deal and we want to keep a semblence of a team, we need to go over for aobut 10-12 million

    sa 1.5 for 5 , 1.75 for 5 and 2 for 2 = 20.25 million
    add to that the approx 7 mio of LT payment we would get for NOT going over;
    total 27.25 millon dollars.

    and that is if you drop Scola and Granger and sign some scrubs for the midlevel.

    want to tell me how to re-sign Hibbert in 2015?

    Lance is actually worth baout 6 million, we DON'T need a hero/superstar/almost superstar at his position!, we have PG and RH and yes DW who can take on a bit more scoring.
    Lebron and dwade is all it takes in Miami, sorry I don't rate Bosh at all and fail to see what he "brings" that cant be replaced by for instant Murphy. he sure as hell cant deal with Hibbert.
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  10. #82
    Come Home Lance! BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    Lance is actually worth baout 6 million, we DON'T need a hero/superstar/almost superstar at his position!
    If Lance is actually worth about 6 million, George Hill is only worth 4 million. Just ask Hibbert. When he said the Pacers had another all-star he was talking about Lance, not Hill.

  11. #83
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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Going into the tax under the previous CBA, which is when we did it, was far less damaging than it is now. Used to be a dollar for dollar tax, much as you went over. Now it's 1.5 up to 5 mil over, 1.75 up to 10, 2.50 for up to 15, and on and on, it keeps increasing every 5 mil.

    That's not me endorsing a stated aversion to ever paying the tax, just the facts of the situation. Paying it in the past isn't near the same as paying it is now.
    Plus there is something called the "repeater" tax for teams that dip into the luxury tax two years in a row. I don't know what the penalties are offhand, but it sounds bad, mmmkay.

  12. #84
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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    I quite honestly have no clue how people keep using this "go over the LT" as an argument when the owner AND the president have repeatedly stated they wont go over.
    When they did it was in 2000, 2004 and 2005-06 and see what that got them, really think LB i going back to Herb saying "Herbie i think we should risk another 10-20 million of your money on it, we may ahve a real winner this time"
    I think that ship sailed at the Palace of Auburn Hills.

    as for impact ? if i remember correctly (and i'm getting older so don't hold me to that) then we went about 11 mio over the limit so the cost was just that, since most teams were reasonable close (we were the nr 2 or 3 payroll that year) the total loss was our share of getting paid the LT (estimated 2 mio) and the LT itself, so our total damage was about 13 million to see the brawl.
    today if as you propose, we sign lance to 12-14 mio deal and we want to keep a semblence of a team, we need to go over for aobut 10-12 million

    sa 1.5 for 5 , 1.75 for 5 and 2 for 2 = 20.25 million
    add to that the approx 7 mio of LT payment we would get for NOT going over;
    total 27.25 millon dollars.

    and that is if you drop Scola and Granger and sign some scrubs for the midlevel.

    want to tell me how to re-sign Hibbert in 2015?

    Lance is actually worth baout 6 million, we DON'T need a hero/superstar/almost superstar at his position!, we have PG and RH and yes DW who can take on a bit more scoring.
    Lebron and dwade is all it takes in Miami, sorry I don't rate Bosh at all and fail to see what he "brings" that cant be replaced by for instant Murphy. he sure as hell cant deal with Hibbert.
    As I said in the other thread regarding the topic of going into the LT to re-sign Lance.....I think that most people fall under the "Sign Lance to whatever price he gets on the FA Market and then pay whatever price it takes to get UNDER the LT before the Feb 2015 Trade Deadline" catagory. This is why there are "Trade GH before for a huge TPE before the February 2015 trade deadline" and a "Don't pick up Scola's contract" factions that have sprung up.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  14. #85
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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    As I said in the other thread regarding the topic of going into the LT to re-sign Lance.....I think that most people fall under the "Sign Lance to whatever price he gets on the FA Market and then pay whatever price it takes to get UNDER the LT before the Feb 2015 Trade Deadline" catagory. This is why there are "Trade GH before for a huge TPE before the February 2015 trade deadline" and a "Don't pick up Scola's contract" factions that have sprung up.
    I guess you could plop me into that category, although I think heading into the season over the LT threshold is dicey. Teams you are dealing with will know you want to shed salary and will likely command picks in order to take on $3 million of Chris Copeland. I think the lion's share of the moves (assuming this were to play out in such a way) to get below the luxury tax threshold would come before the season started. I would think they would only go into the season over the LT if it were by some very small amount (~$1 million or less).

  15. #86
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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I guess you could plop me into that category, although I think heading into the season over the LT threshold is dicey. Teams you are dealing with will know you want to shed salary and will likely command picks in order to take on $3 million of Chris Copeland.
    That's what I have been saying for the longest time.....the cost will likely be EXTREMELY high to shed whatever Salary AFTER going into the season with requirement to shed salary to get under the LT. People look at the cost of signing Lance SIMPLY as a cost of paying Lance $11 to 12 mil a season...but the reality is that the cost will ultimately include whatever assets that we lose in order to get under the LT.

    If that cost is simply ends up being OJ+Copeland+2nd round picks...no problem. But the likely cost would involve future 1st round picks, Solo, simply waiving Scola or even dumping GH for nothing.

    Does that mean that I don't want to lose Lance by no giving up assets?

    There are a lot of people that have ZERO problem dumping 1st/2nd round picks, Solo/OJ or even GH ( or Scola ) for a bag of chips. But no matter what one may think of the Player...they are considered assets that the Team cannot afford to lose.

    For me....I understand and accept that there will always be an inherant cost when it comes to shedding salary while getting back nothing but a TPE. What I am more concerned about is HOW HIGH that cost will be to get under the LT AFTER re-signing Lance to a $11-12 mil a year contract.

    BTW.....the optimal path to take is to simply trade Copeland and some combination of 2nd round picks and OJ ( or even Solo ) to get back an expiring Contract before February 20th ( in the next 3 weeks ). If anyone thinks that it would be easy to do this....don't you think it would have happened by now?
    Last edited by CableKC; 01-28-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    To answer the question of the thread title, I would say that the Pacers are not operating on a one year window. I think it all depends what Larry and the front office do with Granger and Lance this off season. Either way, I think we would be in good shape whether we bring DG or Lance back to Indy. It would probably serve PG and the future better with Lance coming back, but if DG can stay healthy, his shooting and offensive game along with solid defense is such a big boost to the team. I say the Pacers have a 5-7 year window as long as Paul George is here.
    Smothered Chicken!

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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    If we win it all and go all Mavs...I won't care...

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    Default Re: Are Indiana Pacers Operating on 1-Year Championship Window?

    In all honesty, I don't really care about the tax and it being $1 for $1.50. Owners are greedy, players are greedy, agents are greedy, the NBA is greedy, the NBPA is greedy, now it's my turn to be greedy.

    I pour money that I shouldn't down the PS&E tubes. I spend so much work time on this site, reading countless articles, watching youtube clips, etc, and I'm going to be freaking pissed if I watch a core group that is exceeding any and all expectations that have ever been laid in front of them get disbanded because a billionaire doesn't want to open up his wallet a little bit.

    I stood by while douchers, like Tinsley and SJax, ruined the Pacers. I stood by while bad players, like Murphy and Dunleavy, got paid big bucks. Why? On the hope that one day the Pacers would win the championship. ALL of it would totally be worth it. For a fan base to stand by the Pacers through 5-7 years worth of ****** basketball, only to have argubably the best team the Pacers have ever had to get broken up over a couple million would be maddening.

    Without getting too much into politics, I'm a very fiscally responsible person. I hate idea of operating solely on keynesian economics, but even a Gadsden flag waving madman as myself sees that sometimes you make an investment in the present to get more back in the future.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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