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Thread: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

  1. #51
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    If you like your late night TV host you can keep your late night TV host...
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    I like Conan and Kimmel. Think they are by far the best late night guys going right now.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    I like Conan and prefer his show over the others. But, Leno really does have all the power in late night right now. The OP's point stands. Why on earth they are letting him leave is beyond me. If Jay called TBS right now and said I'll take that 11:30 slot and go head to head with Kimmel, Letterman and Fallon and kill them in the ratings, Conan would be unemployed by the end of the day.

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  6. #54
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    You really think TBS is that cold?

  7. #55
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    You really think TBS is that cold?
    Yes. It's business and I think they would look at numbers and make the move.
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Leno will be back in the game somewhere. What's he going to do, work on cars all day? He will get the itch and there will be someone out there willing to bring him in. Maybe Fox will finally try have an 11:35 show.

    I understand that everyone has their biases, as do I, but from a business standpoint there is just no argument. It's bad business to kick the king out, especially when kicking him out for Conan's inferior Tonight Show was such a disaster four years ago. Jay deserved much better from NBC after coming back and saving The Tonight Show in 2009. This is like putting your hand on a burner for the second time and expecting that it won't burn you. And now they are moving the show to New York? I always felt that the Hollywood presence gave Carson and Leno a big edge with getting the best guests. I understand that most stars have a place in New York and that a lot of film production has been moved there over the years, but it still isn't Hollywood.

    I personally will go back to Letterman when I choose to watch late night programming. I have nothing against Fallon, but I will not support kicking the king out of his throne. NBC has treated the ratings king Leno like dirt over the last decade. You don't treat someone like this when they have brought your network such huge successes. NBC is lucky that they get all of that money from Sunday Night Football

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Conan was screwed from the start, when it came to "The Tonight Show". Conan did not have a very good history (leading back to their college days at Harvard) with then NBC/Universal president Jeff Zucker.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    I doubt the drop in ratings from Leno to Conan had anything to do with Conan's relationship with Zucker.

    Carter also notes that Conan O’Brien’s “Tonight” is down roughly two million viewers a night year-to-year.
    http://www.today.com/id/33808107

    Conan has his own sense of humor. It just didn't click with the Tonight Show crowd. He had good initial ratings and then just continued to fall. NBC put their full effort behind Conan, until they realized it was the wrong business decision.
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merz View Post
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    Conan was screwed from the start, when it came to "The Tonight Show". Conan did not have a very good history (leading back to their college days at Harvard) with then NBC/Universal president Jeff Zucker.
    The first person to be screwed was the guy who had been leading the ratings for over a decade with no signs of slowing down - Jay Leno. This wasn't like when the Colts released Peyton Manning for Andrew Luck because PM only had a small finite number of years left where he could possibly play the game. No, Jay Leno could basically do this for as long as he wanted assuming his health holds up. Conan O'Brien was simply not worthy of kicking Leno out the door when he was still on top.

    Look at how CBS has treated Letterman over the last two decades. They respect him for a solid 20 years worth of ratings and will allow him to retire when he wants. You don't see Letterman getting kicked out the back door for younger guys who simply aren't as popular. As decent as Letterman's ratings have been over the last 20 years, Leno's have been even better, yet NBC has kicked him out TWICE. The first time the public didn't like what replaced him. We'll see how it goes this go around.

    Conan may have been screwed, but all of this happened because they decided to screw the king in the first place - Jay Leno. Forgive me for not feeling too sorry for Conan when he should have never had the opportunity to begin with. It's by far one of the worst decisions in the history of television.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I doubt the drop in ratings from Leno to Conan had anything to do with Conan's relationship with Zucker.


    http://www.today.com/id/33808107

    Conan has his own sense of humor. It just didn't click with the Tonight Show crowd. He had good initial ratings and then just continued to fall. NBC put their full effort behind Conan, until they realized it was the wrong business decision.
    Do you seriously think the ratings from Carson to Leno didn't drop? It takes time whenever a long time host is replaced. It also doesn't help when the new host is getting absolutely dreadful ratings support.

    If it was all about Leno pulling people in, why was the new earlier Leno show such a catastrophe?

    Edit: I'm not arguing that switching things, when they didn't need to be, was the right move. I'm just saying Conan didn't exactly get a fair shake after the fact.
    Last edited by Merz; 02-06-2014 at 04:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Ratings 30-40 years ago aren't what they are today. TV is now completely driven by them. The ratings dropped too much for NBC so they went another direction.

    I find it weird to argue that Conan's relationship with an exec. was a reason for his downfall. They must of had a good enough relationship for them to take the chance, and push out the #1 king of late night ratings in favor of Conan.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merz View Post
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    Do you seriously think the ratings from Carson to Leno didn't drop? It takes time whenever a long time host is replaced. It also doesn't help when the new host is getting absolutely dreadful ratings support.

    If it was all about Leno pulling people in, why was the new earlier Leno show such a catastrophe?

    Edit: I'm not arguing that switching things, when they didn't need to be, was the right move. I'm just saying Conan didn't exactly get a fair shake after the fact.

    Leno's ratings dropped for the same reason that CART's ratings dropped after they were kicked out of the Indy 500. People loved watching the CART Indy 500's (Leno's Tonight Show, but they didn't like watching a series that no longer had the Indy 500 has the centerpiece (Jay Leno Show, which was on at a different time didn't have the lore of The Tonight Show). As far as the Indy 500 (The Tonight Show) itself was concerned, people no longer wanted to watch that anymore either without the comic who they had enjoyed for the last 17 years. Conan (the Indy Racing League in this example) was seen as an inferior knockoff product compared to the quality they had witnessed over the last 17 years.

    The CART-IRL Indy 500 thing is a perfect example. The CART Indy 500's were a major success together, but CART was in bad shape without the 500 and the 500 itself was running an inferior product at it's track. Leno's The Tonight Show had 17 years worth of viewer satisfaction, but you pull the parties away from each other and it's not the same. Obviously The Tonight Show brand helped Leno out a lot. It was the perfect match. Messing it all up and putting Jay on at a new 10 PM show with no history and then moving in a new guy to the 11:35 slot who couldn't uphold the old ratings was just a terrible move.

  19. #63
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    TV is now completely driven by them.
    Which is why the Netflix model has experienced such epic failures with it's TV shows. The TV game is changing; evolving as it always does.

    NBC, in the short term, made a move that is going to cost it a hit in the ratings. I think the key demographics won't fall as much as the overall numbers, but they will fall. They made a move to let Fallon have the time slot and the show and build up that demographic, hoping the long-term payout is worth it. They saw the up and comers in the arena (Kimmel, Fallon, hell, Stewart and Colbert could be lumped in there) and realized they needed to make a move.

    For argument's sake, let's say Fox does decide to jump in the game and get into that coveted time slot. First off, does anyone actually think Jay Leno would be their first choice? He doesn't seem to fit their programming model (or TBS's, for that matter). Second, let's assume he did get the show. Does anyone think his numbers would be what they were on NBC? I highly, highly doubt it.

  20. #64
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    I have no idea why Leno had the ratings... time slot? Established show? It's not because he's better at it. He fits that shows format... it's an old, sort of stiff format. I stopped watching it years ago.
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    I never watch Leno but figured I would tonight being his last show and all. Man, that's the best monologue his writing staff could give him for his last show ever? Christ. Not even a corner of my mouth perked up. THAT is what's been winning ratings battles?

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Mainstream audiences don't need much to giggle, I think.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Mainstream audiences don't need much to giggle, I think.
    I dunno, I guess. I don't dislike the guy or anything but that's the most bland stuff I've ever seen. Whatever, dif'rent strokes dif'rent folks and all.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    I'm convinced that Leno's power is in my parents generation. I am 37, and I'm not sure I've ever asked or been asked anything along the lines of "Hey did you see Leno last night?" To me, his show skews older. Just like I highly doubt my 71 year old dad has ever caught a glimpse of Conan.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I never watch Leno but figured I would tonight being his last show and all. Man, that's the best monologue his writing staff could give him for his last show ever? Christ. Not even a corner of my mouth perked up. THAT is what's been winning ratings battles?
    Exactly how I feel watching Conan.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    I'm convinced that Leno's power is in my parents generation. I am 37, and I'm not sure I've ever asked or been asked anything along the lines of "Hey did you see Leno last night?" To me, his show skews older. Just like I highly doubt my 71 year old dad has ever caught a glimpse of Conan.
    This past week Conan got a 0.4rating for the 18-49 demographic, and a 0.7 rating overall.

    I randomly selected Dec 16-20 to look at Leno's ratings, because of the uptick he's currently getting. Leno got a 1.0 rating for the 18-49, and a season-to-date rating of 0.9.

    I suppose it could be skewed towards the older end of that range, but Leno still beats Conan in all demographic ratings.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Exactly how I feel watching Conan.

    Conan would have the highest rated show in television history if he was as popular in real life as he is on this forum. Unfortunately for Conan, the Nielsen rankings aren't calculated by Pacers Digest popularity.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 02-07-2014 at 11:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I have no idea why Leno had the ratings... time slot? Established show? It's not because he's better at it. He fits that shows format... it's an old, sort of stiff format. I stopped watching it years ago.
    Maybe it's as simple as the fact that people enjoy his show and have for over two decades?

    It's pretty simple. People have liked him for a long time. You might not think that he is better at it, but any one person's opinion is purely subjective. As far as the masses are concerned, they have liked Leno on The Tonight Show for a long time and would have continued to like him if it wasn't being stolen from him yet agin. There's no deep meaning to be had here. People like his show and always have. Conan OTOH gets every possible excuse under the sun to cover up for the fact that people simply didn't want to watch him. People blame Jay Leno for it, even though Conan had a significant three month long ratings dive before Leno's 10 PM show premiered. Or they blame the head of NBC for not liking Conan, even though the guy kicked out the ratings king so that he could roll out the red carpet for Conan. I guess Michael Jackson dying in the summer of 2009 is also another excuse since that allegedly took away attention from Conan. Every excuse under the sun to cover up for the fact that people initially tuned in and gave the show a chance, but quickly turned away when they realized that it wasn't at the high quality it had been in previous years.

    Some people might think that football is boring and dumb sport to watch, but the masses disagree.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 02-07-2014 at 11:06 AM.

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  33. #73

    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Are you related to Leno?

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  35. #74
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    I think Fallon will do fine assuming Leno does move on and doesn't hang around in the wings. Fallon has a lot of talent. Way more showbiz talent than Conan. I think Fallon can find a groove and run with it. Conan had to learn the role on his feet heading into Late Night and to this day is still rather awkward. He just doesn't have the foundation that other hosts have (talking performance experience).

    If Leno gives interview after interview talking about how the Tonight Show was taken from him, hinting he'd return if asked, etc. then it might cause Leno loyalists to tune out and not give Fallon a chance.

    I think Conan brought his Late Night fans with him to the Tonight Show and that was about it. He didn't make new fans or convert Leno loyalists. THAT is what opened the door to all that followed.

    Fallon has better odds of bringing in new fans... I think....

    Will it be numbers equal to or better than Leno? I don't know...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  37. #75
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    Default Re: Why is NBC making the same mistake again?

    Leno loyalists are some hard-headed folks, they generally like Leno and no one else. Fairly close-minded. They like their set-in-stone, rather dry but predictable show, lol. Have this argument with my friends and family all the time, and it's always the same... they either like Leno and no one else... or they like everyone else and not Leno. They like him standing up there and delivering his lines. My grandparents, for instance, love Leno, hate the new guys. All my younger peeps like Conan/Kimmel et all and don't really care for Leno. My grandparents also are brainwashed by Fox News 15 hours a day, and are very regimented in their thinking and logic, lol.... so there's definitely a large niche group out there of people like this. I'm a Republican and I still can't stand Fox News.... Anyway, I think Leno is part of that old guard that I just don't see much future in beyond Leno himself. I think that's why the execs are always tryin' to replace him. Letterman is somewhere in between that old guard and new guard, he can still crack me up, but at the same time, I get a little tired, he can be a cynical sunnuva*****.

    I actually think of all the late night guys, Kimmel is far and away the biggest surprise and possibly the most polished, able to carry on a great conversation and have great skits... he's been a real surprise. If you had asked me 15 years ago when he was on The Man Show that he'd develop into the host he is today, I'da said, "Nuh uh." But his show is really very good, he does a great job.

    Conan has a very unique delivery, he's a very intelligent, witty, funny man... some folks don't have that part of their brain developed (lol), and so they don't like him. My wife hates him, but she also has no sense of humor.

    Fallon often is the hardest for me to watch, I don't predict great things for him replacing Leno... sorta like Drew Carey replacing Bob Barker on the Price is Right, its just not the same. Like Drew Carey, I think Fallon is better suited in other formats, not necessarily a host. I'm probably in the minority though. His convos can get awkward. He has some good skits, though.

    Ferguson is an entertaining fellow, even if the show isn't the best produced. He's still a decent talker. He's suckin' hind tit, but I'd still watch him over Leno.

    Arsenio Hall just needs to stop.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 02-07-2014 at 12:23 PM.
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