View Poll Results: Comfortable w Pacers offering Lance the following contract?

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  • 6-8 M

    8 5.97%
  • 8-10 M

    57 42.54%
  • 10-12 M

    50 37.31%
  • 12-14 M

    14 10.45%
  • 14+ M

    5 3.73%
  • Do not re sign and look elsewhere

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Thread: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

  1. #51
    Member Fo11ower91's Avatar
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Any higher than 12 and no.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jukeb0xHero View Post
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    I'd want to trade George Hill before sacrificing Scola.

    anyways 5 years/45 mil I think is about right.
    This isn't as easy as one may think....especially for everyone's favorite scapegoat in the Starting Lineup.

    Whose going to replace GH in the Starting lineup?

    Lance? If it's Lance that will be the Starting PG....whose going to be the Starting SG and/or SF? Are we going to find one for the remaining Salary cap space after re-signing Lance ( which won't be that much left to spend )?

    Also....unless you want to trade GH before this year's Trade Deadline ( in 3 weeks ), trading GH after February 20th would mean that we'd have to make Salaries match in any trade starting in the Offseason and therefore add Salary to the 2014-2015 books ( which you don't want to do ). The only option after the trade deadline is to trade GH to a Team that has enough Salary Cap space to absorb GH's contract without sending anyone back...which I still think is near impossible to find without costing the Pacers any additional assets.

    As I said...it's always easy to scapegoat GH and say dump him ( even in favor of Scola...which IMHO doesn't make any sense ) but...it's not as easy and clear cut when you begin to see how difficult it would be to do that.

    If anyone in the 9 man rotation that will be cut...it would be Scola. I hate to lose him cuz he's IMHO a good Value Player for what he does...but cutting Scola ( cuz of his unguaranteed 2014-2015 Salary ) is the easiest way to clear enough Salary to make a big enough offer to Lance.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Preferably $6-$8M, but no more than $9M.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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  6. #54
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    I went with a threshold. No more than 11m...unless his outside shot is more consistent and his carelessness gets better.

  7. #55
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    I can't believe some people would truly be okay with signing Lance to 13-14 million dollars. There are very few players in the league (under the new CBA) that get paid like that, and the ones that do are bigs, and superstar players. Guys like Tony Parker, Steph Curry, Rajon Rondo, don't get paid more than 12 mil a year and they're star players, at the premier position in the league, who have been good for a while. And those guys were signed BEFORE the new CBA where everyone is closely watching how much they spend. Yet some think they should pay Lance as much or maybe more than that?

    And I disagree that we can just put whatever around a "big 3" of PG, Roy and Lance. There have been two teams that have been successful with this "Big 3" thing, Boston and Miami. Both of those teams included 3 first ballot hall of famers (with potentially the exception of Chris Bosh).

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I think you're way off, but I'll play.

    Roy - 18,000,000
    West - 12,600,000
    Hill - 8,000,000
    Ian - 4,000,000
    PG - 14,728, 844
    Total: 57, 328, 844

    Next year's LT threshold will be around 75M, so the year after will probably be in the 78M range. Surely the Pacers can sign 8 guys for less than 20M.

    EDIT: Whoops, forgot Lance. It does get tricky, but it's doable. I really don't think Roy is going to get anywhere near 18M. I don't see him opting out of his 16M deal. Hopefully revenue increases bump the LT threshold up a bit as well. Even getting an extra 2M to play with gives more options.

    Pacers won't be able to afford a Copeland contract, and pay a guy 3M to watch, but they'll have some space to work with. Even if they do get in a pinch, which I don't think they will because I don't think Roy will opt out, West/Ian's deals fall off the following year freeing up another 16.5M.
    Paul will be at 17 mil with his 27% contract. Roy will get the full 30% max when he opts out and have a line of teams waiting to offer it to him. We''ll have 60 mil tied up in 5 players not counting Lance. Throw Lance in at anything above 10 mil and I don't see how we can field a team with another 7 players and still stay under the LT. The following year we'll lose West but I don't think that's a good problem.

  10. #57
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I can't believe some people would truly be okay with signing Lance to 13-14 million dollars. There are very few players in the league (under the new CBA) that get paid like that, and the ones that do are bigs, and superstar players. Guys like Tony Parker, Steph Curry, Rajon Rondo, don't get paid more than 12 mil a year and they're star players, at the premier position in the league, who have been good for a while. And those guys were signed BEFORE the new CBA where everyone is closely watching how much they spend. Yet some think they should pay Lance as much or maybe more than that?

    And I disagree that we can just put whatever around a "big 3" of PG, Roy and Lance. There have been two teams that have been successful with this "Big 3" thing, Boston and Miami. Both of those teams included 3 first ballot hall of famers (with potentially the exception of Chris Bosh).
    I seriously doubt he gets 13-14. I'm thinking it will be 11-12 unless there is a team out there that is willing to get him at all costs, which I suppose is possible.

    But add Duncan/Manu/Parker to your group of "Big 3 teams".

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I seriously doubt he gets 13-14. I'm thinking it will be 11-12 unless there is a team out there that is willing to get him at all costs, which I suppose is possible.

    But add Duncan/Manu/Parker to your group of "Big 3 teams".
    Good call. But I guess I should have said "near max contract" big 3 where there are 3 highly paid players surrounded by minimum salaried players.

    The Spurs have done a great job of keeping their 3 core players together while maintaining financial flexibility to have impact players around those 3. I think we could do the same if we are able to sign Lance at anything below $11 mil.

    Also, I agree. I think we are looking a 9-11 Mil, so I'm right there with you. I was simply trying to educate posters on how much $12 mil plus is within the league.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 01-24-2014 at 03:48 PM.

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  14. #59
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Paul will be at 17 mil with his 27% contract.
    Yeah, in the last year of his contract. Take a look for yourself.

    http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...ies/pacers.jsp
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yeah, in the last year of his contract. Take a look for yourself.

    http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...ies/pacers.jsp
    I am not sure if Shamsports #s take into account how much of a raise in his salary will be WHEN he makes the ASG. I think that these #s are the Baseline Salary that he will get without making the ASG.
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    The Spurs have done a great job of keeping their 3 core players together while maintaining financial flexibility to have impact players around those 3. I think we could do the same if we are able to sign Lance at anything below $11 mil.
    Recently, sure. But just a few years ago, they were in the LT. They were 73M+ in the 11-12 season, with Duncan getting 21M, Tony 12.5M, and Manu at 13M. They were at 78M in 09-10 paying Tim 21M, Tony 12.6M, Manu 11M, and Richard Jefferson 14M.
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  18. #62
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I am not sure if Shamsports #s take into account how much of a raise in his salary will be WHEN he makes the ASG. I think that these #s are the Baseline Salary that he will get without making the ASG.
    I thought PG didn't take that provision in his contract?

    EDIT: Ah, you're right.

    Year
    27% Max Salary
    30% Max Salary
    IND Savings
    2014-15 $15,792,610 $17,547,345 $1,754,734
    2015-16 $16,977,056 $18,863,396 $1,886,340
    2016-17 $18,161,502 $20,179,446 $2,017,945
    2017-18 $19,345,947 $21,495,497 $2,149,550
    2018-19* $20,530,393 $22,811,548 $2,281,155
    Total $90,807,509 $100,897,232 $10,089,723
    http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...than-expected/

    Damn.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-24-2014 at 03:59 PM.
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  19. #63
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I am not sure if Shamsports #s take into account how much of a raise in his salary will be WHEN he makes the ASG. I think that these #s are the Baseline Salary that he will get without making the ASG.
    Making the ASG as a starter once doesn't kick in the Rose Rule. If he is named to a second All-NBA team, that will do it.
    BillS

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  21. #64
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I thought PG didn't take that provision in his contract?

    EDIT: Ah, you're right.


    http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...than-expected/

    Damn.
    So....after making the ASG....is he going to have the 27% or 30% MAX Salary?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  22. #65
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    27%. He didn't take the full 30%.

    And him getting bumped up that much over shamsports starts throwing all the math I've done pretty lower by about 2M than what it really should be.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  23. #66

    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    My question: Are you guys willing to get rid of Scola this summer to make the $ work, if that's what it takes?

    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!

    I'm not interested in going backwards to the days of Hansbrough and Lou. Lance needs to understand he can't put the Pacers in finanical jeopardy and expect to stay a Pacer. His play benefits from the other players on this team. He's not picking up this team and carrying it to success by himself. FAR from it. What he and his agent needs to understand is Granger is a competent replacement if Lance and his agent want ridiculous money. They don't have the Pacers over a barrell. Lance is just one cog in the wheel, and by far not the most important cog either.

    I have always felt the Pacers overpaid Hill at 8 mil a year. The 8 mil Hill gets is the price range where Lance should be. If he substantially wants more and is not interested in winning a championship with the Pacers, then Bird needs to says thanks, we wish you well, and shut the door behind you when you leave. AND this comes from someone who loves watching Lance play! I catch myself at times during the game just concentracting on watching Lance play, but he's just a cog in the wheel. One of many! JMOAA

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  25. #67
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    I voted up to 14 mil. Essentially I asked myself the following questions:
    1.) How important is Lance to this team
    - Very important. Possibly second most important player. On the best team in the country, at the age of 23, he is second in minutes per game, 1st in field goal percentage, 2nd in rebounds, 1st in assists, and 2nd in points.
    2.) What is his future ceiling?
    - Very high. He is only 23 and playing his second year of major minutes. His growth has been nothing short of astounding over the last two years. Furthermore, he is beginning to show a more all around game and a propensity to shine on the biggest stage. He has a fairly large chance to be an all-star for years to come.
    3.) Other considerations?
    - There are still some worries in regards to temperament both on and off the court which decrease value. His ability to play a couple different positions increases value. His ability to defend also increases value. Only 23 years old. Seems to have good chemistry with current long-contract players.

    That was really all I needed. Pay him. Do whatever it takes to make sure he is here again next year.
    Danger Zone

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  27. #68

    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Yes because Scola is only going to get slower and even more un-athletic. I like Scola a great deal and would have loved to have him on this team for a multi-year deal several years ago. Lance makes the second unit go, and he is young. There are plenty of bigs out there who could be had for cheaper deals who can also hit the pick and pop mid range. We are paying Scola around 6 million this year? Heck I'd imagine that Copeland will come in and play the back up 4 spot next year and give us the same production.

    I'd like to see the Pacers get a bit younger or more athletic at the back up 4 spot.


    Scola is slow, but he's an intelligent savy player who knows how to score. He can shoot a mid-range jumper, and he can score in the paint. He can rebs well, brings veteran leadership, and has been successful player at all levels of BB too. I've seen nothing of Copeland that makes me feel he can replace Scola. Copeland is basically a 3 pt shooting specialist. The Pacers can find 3pt shooters for a dime a dozen. You don't find Luis Scola type players for a dime a dozen.

  28. #69

    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    I wouldn't like it but I would be willing to. I don't think Scola has a long-term place on the team. His veteran savvy and scoring are nice, but not at the cost of a major contributor like Lance.

    Scola is replaceable.

    WITH WHO??

  29. #70

    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I basically agree with you on this. I could see 9 mil so I voted for 8-10. If we get beyond 10 mil I think it's almost impossible to keep Hibbert when he opts out the following year.
    This may be the minority opinion but anyone who read Larry Birds interview just a few weeks ago knows that Larry is also of this opinion. I keep pointing this out because people just seem to ignore it. Larry will not pay whatever it takes.

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/...nce-stephenson
    "We want to keep him and he wants to be here. This is the best environment for him. We will make him a great offer, an offer that I think is very fair. If you look at our books, how does anyone know what's going to happen in the summer. How do they know we're not going to make trades or have more money or less money. We will try to sign Lance, but I don't worry about it. If Lance is not here, we'll get somebody else."


    Maybe the thread should be about are you willing to pay Lance and then lose Hibbert b/c you paid Lance BIG BUCKS? There is NO doubt who is more important to the Pacers when it comes to Hibbert or Lance. Bird knows which is the most important, and his name isn't Lance Stephenson. Hibbert is the anchor to the Pacers "D", not Lance and his flashy play.

  30. #71

    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!

    Lance needs to understand he can't put the Pacers in finanical jeopardy and expect to stay a Pacer. His play benefits from the other players on this team. He's not picking up this team and carrying it to success by himself. FAR from it. What he and his agent needs to understand is Granger is a competent replacement if Lance and his agent want ridiculous money. They don't have the Pacers over a barrell. Lance is just one cog in the wheel, and by far not the most important cog either.
    Lance and his agent ultimately don't care about the Pacers. They're going to act in their best interests. For the production Lance has provided the last two seasons, the Pacers have been getting him for an absolute steal. Everyone knows that and you better believe that his agent is going to try to milk that at the negotiating table with the Pacers. There are teams with a lot of cap space this off season. He'll get signed by someone.

    I'm not one of those people that think we should keep Lance at all costs. If he ends up getting over $12 million a year, more power to him, but I say let him walk. But anything less than that and I say bye-bye to Scola.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    WITH WHO??
    Another backup PF? They're everywhere. Slow-footed PF's who can hit a mid-range jumper are not that hard to find. I know Scola also brings intangibles and savvy that others don't, but not enough to warrant keeping him over Lance. How many good years does Scola have left? 3 at most? Lance has at least another 7 or 8.
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

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  32. #72
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    WITH WHO??
    Same question applies to letting Lance walk. Who replaces what he brings?
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  34. #73
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    I wouldn't like it but I would be willing to. I don't think Scola has a long-term place on the team. His veteran savvy and scoring are nice, but not at the cost of a major contributor like Lance. Scola is replaceable.
    You do realize Scola is getting paid 10mil this year and 11mil next year. How do you replace that with some scrub. Also Bird gave up Green, Plumlee and a 1st for him because of the great value in Scola, you don't throw that away. There are other options to be made.
    .

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  35. #74
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    WITH WHO??
    he is easier replaced than Lance.

    I'm not sure what I would be comfortable with. Probably $10 million. I think the FO will figure it out. And I think if we are in the Finals, Herb will reconsider that whole, no going into the LT.

  36. #75

    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    CJ and Scola are both under contract next year. There's no law that we have to dump them to keep Lance. It's just a question of how much our franchise values winning vs. saving money.

    Granger has been a solid backup wing, but he's hardly worth getting in the way of re-signing Lance.

    Scola and Granger's best years are long behind them. Lance is just getting started. You don't let a couple of old quarters in their 30's get in the way of re-signing your shinny new silver dollar.


    What if the money you have to pay Lance impedes being able to re-sign Hibbert? Is Lance re-signing worth losing Hibbert?

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