View Poll Results: Comfortable w Pacers offering Lance the following contract?

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  • 6-8 M

    8 5.97%
  • 8-10 M

    57 42.54%
  • 10-12 M

    50 37.31%
  • 12-14 M

    14 10.45%
  • 14+ M

    5 3.73%
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Thread: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I know I am in the minority, but I think Lance is a big time benficiary of the system and players around him. Don't get me wrong, he is a good player, but at times he can self distruct and his aggressiveness can hurt the team. I like Lance and would be comfortable re-signing him at about a 7-8 million dollar pricepoint, but any more than that? See ya.
    I basically agree with you on this. I could see 9 mil so I voted for 8-10. If we get beyond 10 mil I think it's almost impossible to keep Hibbert when he opts out the following year.
    This may be the minority opinion but anyone who read Larry Birds interview just a few weeks ago knows that Larry is also of this opinion. I keep pointing this out because people just seem to ignore it. Larry will not pay whatever it takes.

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/...nce-stephenson
    "We want to keep him and he wants to be here. This is the best environment for him. We will make him a great offer, an offer that I think is very fair. If you look at our books, how does anyone know what's going to happen in the summer. How do they know we're not going to make trades or have more money or less money. We will try to sign Lance, but I don't worry about it. If Lance is not here, we'll get somebody else."
    Last edited by Pacerized; 01-24-2014 at 11:20 AM.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by bballpacen View Post
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    The question is would you be willing to get rid of Scola AND Danny... If Lance goes elsewhere then Danny will be resigned...

    If it were at the cost of just Scola, then yes... but I would prefer Danny and Scola to Lance if it came to that...
    That is something to think about. Pacers could easily keep both Danny and Scola instead of Lance only. Thats a different dynamic off the bench. Watson, OJ, Danny, Scola, and Ian? but then who do you get start in place of Lance? Solo?
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I cannot accept losing Lance just so we can have enough $$$ to fill out the bench with a Dhantay Jones, Earl Watson, Gerald Green, Ian Mahinmi, or Chris Copeland.
    Outside of Green, none of those guys were expected to be a 6th man type of player that was going to contribute on a contending team. (and Green is showing what he can do when he's within a system that fits his talent)

    If we spend $14 mil on Lance, then you're going to be seeing players worse than Jones, Green and Mahinmi as the 6th and 7th man coming off the bench.

    Plus $14 million on a guard who's not a superstar player is A LOT of money to one guy. Every player has a limit as to what they should be paid, Lance is no different.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    My question: Are you guys willing to get rid of Scola this summer to make the $ work, if that's what it takes?
    These types of questions are what really needs to be asked. And we keep re-hashing money questions about the possibilities over and over again.

    Perhaps it would be a good idea to sticky a chart that shows next year's salaries of the starters under contract and columns for different projections for Lance, with salaries for the remaining players for next season also listed so folks can then visualize the impact of Lance's salary on the total.

    Then, folks can also see how much salary and which players might be eliminated to remain under the luxury Tashkent threshold.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by bballpacen View Post
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    The question is would you be willing to get rid of Scola AND Danny... If Lance goes elsewhere then Danny will be resigned...

    If it were at the cost of just Scola, then yes... but I would prefer Danny and Scola to Lance if it came to that...
    Pacers have already proven that their core PG/Lance/GHill/West/Roy with a crappy bench can push the eventual champs to 7 games and then have the best record in the NBA. Why would the Pacers want to break that up, to keep a bench unit? I love Danny, I thought he'd be the better option to start if he had been healthy, I hope the Pacers find some way to hang on to him, but you invest more in the 23y/o than you do the 30+ y/o, especially when you've proven you can win with the 23y/o and without the 30+y/o.
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I cannot accept losing Lance just so we can have enough $$$ to fill out the bench with a Dhantay Jones, Earl Watson, Gerald Green, Ian Mahinmi, or Chris Copeland.
    The question might end up being would you lose Lance to keep Danny, Ian, Luis AND CJ? Not OR but instead AND, as in multiple players or even most of the second unit.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    My question: Are you guys willing to get rid of Scola this summer to make the $ work, if that's what it takes?
    33-year-old, declining minor part of our team's success vs. 23-year-old, improving major part of our team's success.

    Seems like a no-brainer to me.

    I'd also be willing to get rid of both Scola and Granger if it means keeping Lance. Let's face it, this team has proven they're more than fine without Danny. I'm not sure we could say the same without Lance. Add in the age disparity and Danny's injuries, and again, it becomes a no-brainer, at least to me.

    In short: Do whatever it takes to keep the trio of PG, Roy, and Lance intact. That's a young, championship-caliber trio, and we can't let it slip away.

  12. #33
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Pacers have already proven that their core PG/Lance/GHill/West/Roy with a crappy bench can push the eventual champs to 7 games and then have the best record in the NBA. Why would the Pacers want to break that up, to keep a bench unit? I love Danny, I thought he'd be the better option to start if he had been healthy, I hope the Pacers find some way to hang on to him, but you invest more in the 23y/o than you do the 30+ y/o, especially when you've proven you can win with the 23y/o and without the 30+y/o.
    "have the best record in the NBA" comes with a bench including Danny and Scola. Not sure that's the same "crappy bench" as last year.
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    "have the best record in the NBA" comes with a bench including Danny and Scola. Not sure that's the same "crappy bench" as last year.
    They had the best record in the NBA before Danny returned. I agree that Scola is a part of it, but they had established themselves as the best record while Scola was still struggling early in the year.
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    These types of questions are what really needs to be asked. And we keep re-hashing money questions about the possibilities over and over again.

    Perhaps it would be a good idea to sticky a chart that shows next year's salaries of the starters under contract and columns for different projections for Lance, with salaries for the remaining players for next season also listed so folks can then visualize the impact of Lance's salary on the total.

    Then, folks can also see how much salary and which players might be eliminated to remain under the luxury Tashkent threshold.
    It's not a chart but I posted this in the Pacers evaluation thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    But it's only for one year, then you get cap relief.

    Scola/Copeland/OJ fall off the books. Solo will have a team option. They'd have $10-15M+ to get a bench and fill out the lineup gaps. Not the greatest, but not unworkable, especially with such a strong starting lineup.

    Say Lance gets 11M for that year, you're looking at just south of $66M total. The LT cap for14-15 season is projected to be around $75M, so the LT threshold for 15-16 would probably be around $78M. You'd have $12M to get you 7 players. You can fill your end of the bench guys, say 3 of them, at less than $1M but we'll just keep it even 1M. So you'd have about $9M left with at least 4 spots to fill. It's not the best, but it's certainly feasible.
    The numbers are coming from Shamsports.
    http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...ies/pacers.jsp
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Outside of Green, none of those guys were expected to be a 6th man type of player that was going to contribute on a contending team. (and Green is showing what he can do when he's within a system that fits his talent)

    If we spend $14 mil on Lance, then you're going to be seeing players worse than Jones, Green and Mahinmi as the 6th and 7th man coming off the bench.

    Plus $14 million on a guard who's not a superstar player is A LOT of money to one guy. Every player has a limit as to what they should be paid, Lance is no different.
    Only one person so far has said they'd be willing to go upwards of 14M and only one other upwards of 12M.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I basically agree with you on this. I could see 9 mil so I voted for 8-10. If we get beyond 10 mil I think it's almost impossible to keep Hibbert when he opts out the following year.
    This may be the minority opinion but anyone who read Larry Birds interview just a few weeks ago knows that Larry is also of this opinion. I keep pointing this out because people just seem to ignore it. Larry will not pay whatever it takes.

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/...nce-stephenson
    "We want to keep him and he wants to be here. This is the best environment for him. We will make him a great offer, an offer that I think is very fair. If you look at our books, how does anyone know what's going to happen in the summer. How do they know we're not going to make trades or have more money or less money. We will try to sign Lance, but I don't worry about it. If Lance is not here, we'll get somebody else."
    They should be able to pay Roy similiar money, and get a cheaper PF to offset the costs. For instance, you could pay a starting PF 9M per, pay Roy 15M per, and still have a savings of almost 3M between the two positions.

    The cap issues are really only a concern for next season. After that, the Pacers have tons and tons of salary dropping off the books. They staggered out their salary nicely. They only have two players (PG/GHIll) under contract for the 16/17 season, when Roy would be a FA.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    "have the best record in the NBA" comes with a bench including Danny and Scola. Not sure that's the same "crappy bench" as last year.

    This team was 20-5 (80%) before Granger came back. They are 13-3 since his return (81.25%). The team's winning percentage has increased by a tiny fraction since his return. In no way am I trying to marginalize his importance to the bench. He is superior to Solo and OJ. But this team was well on its way to winning a ton of games before his return.

    Scola and CJ have no doubt been a big part of our success. They are certainly better than what we had last year. But the number 1 reason we are so dominant is because of our starting unit. Two of the players, Lance and PG, have increased their games by leaps and bounds over a year ago when we took the Heat to 7. So if we can take the Heat to 7 last year with just our starting lineup, then I'd be pretty confident in that starting lineup again since two key players have improved so much.

    I'm a huge fan of having an improved bench. It has obviously made us a better team. But this deadly starting lineup is the number 1 reason for the team's successes over the last couple of seasons.

    A Hibbert/PG/Lance core ensures that this team will be nasty for many years to come. Sure West will get old at some point and there will likely have to be other changes. But as long as we have those three players, we'll be fine.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    The question might end up being would you lose Lance to keep Danny, Ian, Luis AND CJ? Not OR but instead AND, as in multiple players or even most of the second unit.
    I'd rather have a silver dollar than a few quarters. Silver dollars are rare. Quarters OTOH can be found anywhere.

    Scola, CJ, and Ian are all under contract next season. Nothing says that we have to dump those players to keep Lance. How much does this franchise value having the best record in the NBA? That's the big question. Being the best comes at a price, but the benefits arguably outweigh the costs when you look at the big picture.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    I fully believe Lance could be our #2 scoring option right now and give us a reasonably efficient 20 a night if asked to. Throw in his superstar-level complete game, and I think anything less than $12M a year is going to end up a huge steal.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Whatever it takes, within reason. I'm comfortable anywhere in the 8-12 million a year range, I think. I've got to see him play like this for the second half of the season and step up his playoff game a little bit before I do anything though.

    The core of PG, Hibbert and Lance will be good enough to compete for however long all of them want to stay here. Keep them together as long as we can.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    They should be able to pay Roy similiar money, and get a cheaper PF to offset the costs. For instance, you could pay a starting PF 9M per, pay Roy 15M per, and still have a savings of almost 3M between the two positions.

    The cap issues are really only a concern for next season. After that, the Pacers have tons and tons of salary dropping off the books. They staggered out their salary nicely. They only have two players (PG/GHIll) under contract for the 16/17 season, when Roy would be a FA.
    Roy won't be 15 mil. We'll have to pay Roy 18 after he opts out and if we don't his agent has already proven to us that Roy will be willing to sign for that max elsewhere only this time he won't be restricted.
    West will still be under contract when Roy opts out and we'll need Scola's expiring contract then just to keep Roy so we can't use that now on Lance. The cap and L.T. will be a bigger issue the following summer then this summer.
    I think the bottom line is if we pay Lance much over 10 mil then we may lose Roy the following summer. I'm not willing to do that.

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  28. #43

    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    You pay him more than the highest bidder, whatever that is. I doubt it is more than $12m, but I went with $14m because he is vital to our goal of winning a championship. Having a good bench would be nice for having a good regular season record and maybe making the Finals, but we need to invest in young players like him if we are going to have continued success.

    Paul, Lance, and Roy. Those are the big 3 you keep no matter what. Hopefully you could pay them an average of $50m or so in the future. Then you have enough cap space to build around them. We won't be able to pay power forwards like West $12m per year, and Hill might have to be traded, but with that big 3, the championship will always be in sight. A top 5 player, the best center in the league, and a shooting guard with insane potential who is already All-Star caliber. Most teams would kill for that. We can't throw it away because we need to have Chris Copeland or Luis Scola.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    If we move Copeland, don't we have around $12 million to give to Lance? I feel like that'll be about as good of an offer as he'll get, not to mention we can offer him higher escalation %'s than anyone else.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I cannot accept losing Lance just so we can have enough $$$ to fill out the bench with a Dhantay Jones, Earl Watson, Gerald Green, Ian Mahinmi, or Chris Copeland.
    Except that instead of Dhantay Jones it is Danny Granger. Instead of Copeland it is Scola. Instead of Earl it is CJ.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Except that instead of Dhantay Jones it is Danny Granger. Instead of Copeland it is Scola. Instead of Earl it is CJ.

    CJ and Scola are both under contract next year. There's no law that we have to dump them to keep Lance. It's just a question of how much our franchise values winning vs. saving money.

    Granger has been a solid backup wing, but he's hardly worth getting in the way of re-signing Lance.

    Scola and Granger's best years are long behind them. Lance is just getting started. You don't let a couple of old quarters in their 30's get in the way of re-signing your shinny new silver dollar.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    I hope it's under 12, but I'd go higher to keep him. I think he'll be just as important to the teams success as Roy in a few years. If he stays on this team he's on his way to making multiple All-Star teams. I agree with others that say his surroundings and teammates here have helped him greatly, but Lance also helps his teammates a ton too. There's not player on the roster or a player we can replace him with that makes his teammates better offensively as well as Lance can. He's barely scratched the surface of how good he can be, and seeing him grow into the player he's become has been one the highlights of my Pacers fandom, so I'd like to see us do what it takes to keep him.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Roy won't be 15 mil. We'll have to pay Roy 18 after he opts out and if we don't his agent has already proven to us that Roy will be willing to sign for that max elsewhere only this time he won't be restricted.
    West will still be under contract when Roy opts out and we'll need Scola's expiring contract then just to keep Roy so we can't use that now on Lance. The cap and L.T. will be a bigger issue the following summer then this summer.
    I think the bottom line is if we pay Lance much over 10 mil then we may lose Roy the following summer. I'm not willing to do that.
    I think you're way off, but I'll play.

    Roy - 18,000,000
    West - 12,600,000
    Hill - 8,000,000
    Ian - 4,000,000
    PG - 14,728, 844
    Total: 57, 328, 844

    Next year's LT threshold will be around 75M, so the year after will probably be in the 78M range. Surely the Pacers can sign 8 guys for less than 20M.

    EDIT: Whoops, forgot Lance. It does get tricky, but it's doable. I really don't think Roy is going to get anywhere near 18M. I don't see him opting out of his 16M deal. Hopefully revenue increases bump the LT threshold up a bit as well. Even getting an extra 2M to play with gives more options.

    Pacers won't be able to afford a Copeland contract, and pay a guy 3M to watch, but they'll have some space to work with. Even if they do get in a pinch, which I don't think they will because I don't think Roy will opt out, West/Ian's deals fall off the following year freeing up another 16.5M.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-24-2014 at 01:58 PM.
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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    I'd want to trade George Hill before sacrificing Scola.

    anyways 5 years/45 mil I think is about right.

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    Default Re: What are you willing to see the Pacers pay to keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    My question: Are you guys willing to get rid of Scola this summer to make the $ work, if that's what it takes?
    Can someone run me the projected $$ that we will have left over to sign Lance by letting Scola go ( keeping in mind he has s 950k guaranteed salary if he is waived ) before I answer that?

    IMHO....I think that it is possible to sign a quality backup PF at $1.5 to 2.5 mil a year. I need to know how much $$$ that the Pacers will have left over to likely sign a Free Agent to fill the Backup PF spot.

    In the end...I guess I'd be extremely reluctant but would lean towards letting Scola go and hoping that we can find a solid replacement in Free Agency for him.

    I know that Copeland is an option for Backup PF..but I really have to see Copeland play extended minutes behind West as the Backup PF before deciding to have him replace Scola as the backup to West.
    Last edited by CableKC; 01-24-2014 at 02:27 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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