Be good enough that they can't ignore you.
Be good enough that they can't ignore you.
It's really not, though. They have been in the past, and when their legacies are written I think they will go down as PFs, but functionally, they both play roles that are most often associated with centers. Does it matter? No. This reminds me of the Lance/point guard thing: Sure, he's the shooting guard in name, but functions a lot as the primary facilitator of the offense for a good portion of his minutes on the court. The days of slotting guys into clearly defined positions of "center, power forward, small forward, shooting guard, point guard" are in the past.
Btw, good to see you pop up and posting duke!
Tim Duncan is known as one of the greatest Power Forwards ever, not the greatest centers ever. Tiago Splitter is the starting center of the Spurs when healthy. It's not possible to argue that.
There is no NBA player named Monte Ellis.
Duncan has played PF far more during his career. He has more of a PF game. He is the greatest PF of all time.
why do people try to make this garbage an argument?
I just commented in here without reading the whole thread til now....I am amazed that people are so staunch on this on both sides LOL
I can't help the urge.
I honestly don't see why this matters. The game has evolved with their long careers. They both play in the post, they both can hit the pick and pop jumpers. They both can play either position. At this point, they are probably both better off guarding opposing centers as opposed to power forwards.
Itís always debatable but I just wanted to make the point that a mediocre center from the mid 90ís would be a top center today. I watched him play a lot after I moved to Florida in 91. Siekaly was a hardnosed physical center and I donít think his D was bad, it just wasnít elite. The post games of that era were so much more advanced from both the center and power forward positions. Guys like Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Malone and Kemp could go off on any defender at any time. I miss seeing that type of game.
I've personally always thought of Tim Duncan as a C since he just played more C in his career than he has PF. He got the PF moniker because he played a few years with David Robinson but even then you could argue he was there C and Robinson was actually the PF because Duncan routinely ended up guarding the opposing Cs. This year Duncan has logged 34% of the Spurs minutes at C and 20% at PF according to 82games.com.....The Spurs have routinely actually gone out of there way to try to keep Duncan classified as a PF once he started becoming known one of the best PFs of all time. On there website and the posted position for him each game was PF often times even when he was starting with players like DeJuan Blair who they would list as C yet Duncan ALWAYS guarded the opposing C. He can play either and play either at an incredibly high level obviously I just personally view him as a C because more often than not in say the games of Shaq vs. Duncan it was Duncan guarding Shaq thus it was always a great C battle in my mind why I personally think of him as a C more than a PF.
Yeah, while I think mattie was pretty condescending with his opinion that Duncan is a center, I totally agree with him. This season, he's split the time between the 4 and 5 a little more, taking 20% of available minutes at the four and 35% of minutes at center, according to 82games.com, a website that I swear by for some of my info including positional stats (worth noting, he is a -27 at PF and +157 at C). He's played center almost exclusively after Robinson retired and hell, he played a lot of the "backup" center minutes when Robinson was playing too. In fact, the site says that Duncan hasn't actually played PF since 09-10, when he played less than 1% of the available minutes for the position.
I really feel like Duncan has always been a center... he does a lot of his damage, offensively, from midrange, but he's often the primary post defender/rim protector on the floor, sets a ton of screens, and he's been the Spurs' leading rebounder and shotblocker his entire career. The only thing, to me, that identifies him as a power forward is that he is introduced as one during the starting lineups.
Edit:Looks like VideoVandal beat me to the 82games stats... well done, friend.
Seth we don't think of Dirk as a C because he is awful guarding the paint. Duncan excels in that area. Just how Mehmet Okur or others like him were listed at C in actuality they played more like forwards because they can't guard the paint. I am not a big believer in positions per say more roles of the player. I just consider big guys who protect the paint Cs and that is what Duncan did in his prime and still does in spurts today.
Last edited by pacer4ever; 01-22-2014 at 10:27 AM.