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Thread: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

  1. #26
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I just get tired of hearing it.

    Yes, there were much more superstar centers in the 90's. But there are actually MORE talented centers now.

    Here's all the legit true centers in the NBA today:

    Roy Hibbert
    Dwight Howard
    Joakim Noah
    Tim Duncan
    Pau Gasol
    Marc Gasol
    Andrew Bogut
    Tyson Chandler
    DeAndre Jordan
    DeMarcus Cousins
    Brook Lopez
    Omar Asik
    Nikola Pekovic

    That's just the talented ones... I'm probably missing a few, but off the top of my head..

    Out of that list maybe 2 of these guys could crack the top 10 in 1995 and that would be questionable while guys like Rony Seikaly who were considered below average then would crack the top 5 of nba centers today. The drop off of talent in the center position isn't exaggerated, it's unfortunately real. Look at it this way, could you take any 2 of today's nba centers and be able to trade them for Hakeem, Robinson, or Shaq? Would you even be able to trade Hibbert and Howard for Ewing?

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Out of that list maybe 2 of these guys could crack the top 10 in 1995 and that would be questionable while guys like Rony Seikaly who were considered below average then would crack the top 5 of nba centers today. The drop off of talent in the center position isn't exaggerated, it's unfortunately real. Look at it this way, could you take any 2 of today's nba centers and be able to trade them for Hakeem, Robinson, or Shaq? Would you even be able to trade Hibbert and Howard for Ewing?
    I think there is some nostalgia glasses being worn. Yes, there is a significant decrease in depth at the center position from the 90's, but Rony Seikaly (whoever that is) most definitely wouldn't be a top 5 center today.

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I think there is some nostalgia glasses being worn. Yes, there is a significant decrease in depth at the center position from the 90's, but Rony Seikaly (whoever that is) most definitely wouldn't be a top 5 center today.
    He averaged 14.7 and 9.5 boards for his career and he was (maybe average) for the era and keep in mind he did that against much better competition. I guess you weren't watching then to not know who he was but he'd crack the top 5 against todays competition at center. It's weaker at the top and bottom today, much weaker.

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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by lolwuttermelons View Post
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    With Embiid, Okafor, Towns Jr, etc. entering the league in the next couple of years, I think the C position will be in good hands
    So not in Ian's hands?

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  9. #30
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Remember that time you were trying to be a condescending *** and it backfired when everyone proved you wrong?

    Good times.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    No idea what your problem is, but you think they are centers, I think they are PF's. Can they play center? Yes. What is their natural position? Power forward. Sorry if you disagree, but apparently your opinion is the only valid one so no point in arguing
    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    Gasol is definitely a power forward. Please don't be an *** about your opinion. You clearly disagree, but that doesn't mean you're right.
    You guys don't have to get upset and your feelies all sad just because I refuse to take one of your bad opinions seriously.

    You're reasoning is extremely flawed, and you're attempting to argue against something that we can all look up for ourselves. There are official positions for these guys and they're listed accordingly.

    Anywho, I love you all anyway, even if you do have dumb opinions. :-)
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    So because of roster changes where it makes more sense to have Duncan/Gasol move from PF to C, they are centers now even though the only thing that changed is where the coach lists them in the starting line up, not their game, they are centers now. Ok. Let's just ignore how basketball has changed and the center position today is, for the most part, nothing like it was 20 years ago.

    Not like we've been calling Tim Duncan the greatest PF of all time for years or anything.

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  12. #32

    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I think there is some nostalgia glasses being worn. Yes, there is a significant decrease in depth at the center position from the 90's, but Rony Seikaly (whoever that is) most definitely wouldn't be a top 5 center today.
    If you don't know who a player is, you probably shouldn't make statements about him. Seikaly would most definitely be a top 5 center if he were playing today.

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  14. #33
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    You guys don't have to get upset and your feelies all sad just because I refuse to take one of your bad opinions seriously.

    You're reasoning is extremely flawed, and you're attempting to argue against something that we can all look up for ourselves. There are official positions for these guys and they're listed accordingly.

    Anywho, I love you all anyway, even if you do have dumb opinions. :-)
    No one is mad because you don't agree with their opinions, it's because you're being a jerk about it.

    Also, you say there are official positions for players, so I looked.

    21 Tim Duncan F 6-11 250 04/25/1976 Wake Forest/U.S. Virgin Islands 16

    http://www.nba.com/spurs/roster/2013

    16 Pau Gasol C-F 7-0 250 07/06/1980 FC Barcelona/Spain 12

    http://www.nba.com/lakers/roster/2013

    Don't know how much more of an official position you want than the roster listing on the team's site.

  15. #34
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Doesn't Splitter start at C when healthy?
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  17. #35
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Skull View Post
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    Doesn't Splitter start at C when healthy?
    Wait a minute...what are you trying to do, confuse everyone with facts ?
    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

  18. #36
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    You guys don't have to get upset and your feelies all sad just because I refuse to take one of your bad opinions seriously.

    You're reasoning is extremely flawed, and you're attempting to argue against something that we can all look up for ourselves. There are official positions for these guys and they're listed accordingly.

    Anywho, I love you all anyway, even if you do have dumb opinions. :-)

    vnzla? Is that you? When did you change names, 'uely?


    And as for players changing postiitons, Brian Grant came into the league as a small forward for the Kings. 35 pounds and 3 years later he was playing center for the Heat.
    Last edited by Phree Refill; 01-21-2014 at 09:06 AM.

  19. #37
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Seikaly would most definitely be a top 5 center if he were playing today.
    No way. I hated Seikaly. Would you pick him ahead of Roy, Dwight, Bogut, Gasol, and Noah?

    Like I said, no way.
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  21. #38
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"



    No, this is a personal attack. The rest of the thread may be aggressive but it is at least talking about the opinions, not the person.

    mattie has been contacted.


    I Bleed Blue

  22. #39

    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    And last I checked Duncan is the Spurs starting center... so we agree.

    Back to the topic on hand- The media is dumb.
    last I saw, Tiago Splitter started 84 regular season games at center over the past 1.5 seasons, only interrupted by injuries (including one now)
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    I don't consider players "true" centers that can play both the PF/C position. The word "true" narrows it down specifically to just centers.

    Quote Originally Posted by True
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    14. Narrowly particularized; highly specific:
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/true

    Shaq was a true center.
    Rik was a true center.
    Mutombo was a true center.
    Ewing was a true center.
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  26. #41
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Seems like Centers have gotten shorter in height. It used to be almost a requirement to be a seven footer
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    No way. I hated Seikaly. Would you pick him ahead of Roy, Dwight, Bogut, Gasol, and Noah?

    Like I said, no way.
    I just picked a decent center that wasn't really anything special during that era to make a point. At his best he was good for 20 and 10 yet he still wasn't anything special in the mid 90's. Yes I would take him over Bogut and Noah and I didn't really like him either. Look at the drop off from the top 5 in 95 though.
    Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Zo. The top 3 scoring leaders in 95 were centers at 29.3, 27.8, and 27.6 then you had Malone at 26.7. The drop off in big men isn't small it's huge. I don't see the best center today ranking more then 7th in 1995. Nostalgia can factor in but people often forget just how good a player was very fast. Many of the top pf's of the 90's would be playing center today due to the drop off in talented big men. However, the overall crop of small forwards today is much better. The game has simply devolved somewhat into a less physical finesse type of game where wing players are valued much more. I love the fact that my team plays a more conventional big mans game and is showing why it's nice to have a real center and power forward on the floor. It's the way I like to see the game played.

  28. #43
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    You are both right! Several of these players came into the league as PF and have since converted to Centers. Not unlike what many PGs have done... Both of those guys came into the league as PF
    And a number of players just don't like to be called centers, regardless of how much of their time they spend in that role. Remember JO refused to be called a center, so Al Harrington was listed as the center - Yeah, THAT made a lot of sense, didn't it?

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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't consider players "true" centers that can play both the PF/C position. The word "true" narrows it down specifically to just centers.


    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/true



    Shaq was a true center.
    Rik was a true center.
    Mutombo was a true center.
    Ewing was a true center.

    So Hakeem would not be a true center? This entire discussion is too confusing. Same as the true point guard discussion.

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  31. #45
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Look at it this way, could you take any 2 of today's nba centers and be able to trade them for Hakeem, Robinson, or Shaq? Would you even be able to trade Hibbert and Howard for Ewing?
    Today's NBA centers? Heck, you couldn't have traded anyone for those guys back then, let alone find someone to trade for any of them now.

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  33. #46
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    I don't consider Hakeem a "true" center, no. But it's more of a reflection on how mattie setup his argument, rather than the actual argument that there are still skilled low post players. Zach Randolph isn't a center, let alone a "true" center, yet he is more of a old school player than Dwight Howard, who is a true center.

    There just isn't the dominate centers anymore, that can carry an offensive load for a team and average 25+ pts like Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq etc. That's always the real argument I hear when I hear there aren't any more true centers, as opposed to thinking the argument is really about where exactly they fall on the lineup card.
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  35. #47
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I think there is some nostalgia glasses being worn. Yes, there is a significant decrease in depth at the center position from the 90's, but Rony Seikaly (whoever that is) most definitely wouldn't be a top 5 center today.

    I know who Rony Seikley is and his defense was awful. But he was a decent scorer. He wouldn't be a top 5 center today

  36. #48
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I could have the opinion that Barrack Obama is the Prime Minister of England but it doesn't make it true. I accept your opinion for what it is: WRONG.

    :-)
    You're being awful rude for one, and secondly he Is right. Tim and Pau are PFs.

    Even if he were wrong there is no reason you should try to make him feel as if he's an idiot. C'mon man.
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  37. #49

    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Quote Originally Posted by khaos01207 View Post
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    You're being awful rude for one, and secondly he Is right. Tim and Pau are PFs.

    Even if he were wrong there is no reason you should try to make him feel as if he's an idiot. C'mon man.


    That's mattie's thing. Pretty terrible basketball analyst if you ask me. Just gloss over what he has to say.

    Or don't.

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  39. #50
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    Default Re: "Most teams now don't even have centers"

    Who are you people?

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