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Thread: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

  1. #26

    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'll go with the man that has more access to behind the scenes than internet crusaders.
    Jim O'Brien got 3 NBA head coaching jobs. Stop this appeal to authority idiocy. You guys need lists of ****** moves by GMs? MATT MILLEN, you lose. I'm by no means saying I'm one of em, but people gotta stop acting like Joe Internet is a moron, the NBA's finally figuring it out and they're immensely better for it. Next time you see Pete Dinwiddie at a Pacers practice with his calculator figuring out how to pay Lance, or Kevin Pelton scouting for us, make sure to let them know they're internet crusaders and have no valuable input. Tell John Hollinger his input isn't valued. This is such a friggin archaic sentiment.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Jim O'Brien got 3 NBA head coaching jobs. Stop this appeal to authority idiocy. You guys need lists of ****** moves by GMs? MATT MILLEN, you lose. I'm by no means saying I'm one of em, but people gotta stop acting like Joe Internet is a moron, the NBA's finally figuring it out and they're immensely better for it. Next time you see Pete Dinwiddie at a Pacers practice with his calculator figuring out how to pay Lance, or Kevin Pelton scouting for us, make sure to let them know they're internet crusaders and have no valuable input. Tell John Hollinger his input isn't valued. This is such a friggin archaic sentiment.
    Found it always funny (belittling as well) when some refer to that appeal to authority idiocy as you said. On a freaking message board.
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

  4. #28

    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    1. Raiders
    2. 49ers
    3. Jaguars
    4. Seahawks
    5. Broncos
    6. Texans
    7. Titans
    8. Titans
    9. Texans
    10. Chiefs
    11. Jaguars
    12. Chiefs
    Trent wasn't with the Colts for the Raiders win, so maybe you or Mackey should recount.

  5. #29
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Good grief.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I am getting sick of the Trent hate. I guarantee you the guy has a good year next season, give him an off-season and training camp. I swear some people honestly believe they could do better than him. It isn't easy joining a new team mid-season with an awful offensive line
    Sorry, but don't give me that crap. This guy had ample amount of time to get accustomed to our scheme. It wasn't mid-season, but more like the 3rd game into the season...and going into the playoffs, he still averaged only 3 YPC. And I agree that the offensive line sucks, but Ballard, Bradshaw, nor Brown ever looked this horrible behind this same exact line!

    Answer me this....when Curtis Painter was forced into the starting role, how long did it take before you realized 'this isn't working?'

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Stop this appeal to authority idiocy.
    Give me a list of reasons to put Grigson on the same level as JOb or MATT MILLEN. I give people the benefit of the doubt, until they demonstrate that that they shouldn't. I haven't seen it yet with Grigson, so yeah..... When I look at the body of work by Grigson, JOb and MATT MILLEN aren't anywhere near.

    Your application of my comment is a bit misguided.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-20-2014 at 09:52 AM.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    Found it always funny (belittling as well) when some refer to that appeal to authority idiocy as you said. On a freaking message board.
    I've always found it funny when some think they have a better understanding of a professional game, than professionals. On a freaking message board.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  9. #33
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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    No... Instead he's telling us we didn't see what we saw.
    Not saying that Trent was some world beater, but he did have positive impacts. He was usually part of the passing lineups the Colts needed to close out games, as he's great at picking up rushers and the fact that he's a weapon catching the ball. If you didn't see those positive impacts, then I'm not sure you saw everything.

    You can look at the statement and think it means he helped the Colts win all 12 games, or look at it that he only helped them win 1. If they won 11 instead of 12 without Trent, the statement rings true. What if Grigs was going through film and noticed Trent pick up a blitz that saved Luck's *** for an important 3rd down conversion? Is that possible?



    Patience just isn't a word most fans understand.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  10. #34
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    A lot of things are possible including that Cleveland fleeced us....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm not sure where he will be on the depth chart next season. Donald Brown outplayed him and usurped him as the starter, one has to assume Vick Ballard will jump him too.
    Donald is a FA. Who knows if he's back.

    I'm honestly not sure what to think of Richardson. He had a productive year in CLE, so it's not as if he's just completely terrible. He's got some obvious skills that our other RB's lack (ability to catch out of the backfield, pass blocking), but it seems like he was miscast as a pure power running back.

    Guess we will see what happens with him next year. Should be interesting.

  12. #36
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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Sure that is possible. Only one side of the coin is arguing that rock solid conclusions are ready to be made.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I've always found it funny when some think they have a better understanding of a professional game, than professionals. On a freaking message board.
    Good grief.
    First of all, nobody has said that. It's just you and Kid Minneapolis keep repeating this sorry *** statement ("Internet crusaders") by belittling and disrespecting other posters. You could both really do much better than that. Let alone the fact that professionals do **** up. Big time or small time. I know though.. must be shock to you.

    Second and to the point, you think there is no chance Grigson has completely screwed up this trade?* Cause so far he is clearly on the losing side of it. For all the understandable reasons and excuses, the player he traded for has offered little to what was expected and definitely he hasn't given his team what players of his position are supposed to do best.

    Bottom line is Richardson will have another chance next year to prove he is a really good player and the trade was worthwhile. He didn't come close to it the first year. I hope he does achieve that and help the team reach as far as it can.

    * Edit: Forget that. Saw you answered it above.
    Last edited by Johanvil; 01-20-2014 at 12:18 PM.
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    When have I disrespected anyone?
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    When have I disrespected anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I'll go with Grigs word over most dudes on their couches.
    This sounds belittling to me. You could make your point without having to post that.

    PS: The "Internet crusaders" was not yours of course. You just posted the above that is in the same context to what Since86 said.
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Internet crusaders wasn't meant as a insult, as I consider myself in that category. I spend M-F 9-5 logged in here.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  20. #41
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    On this subject 'internet crusaders' have the benefit of hindsight to base their opinions and observations.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  21. #42

    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    I wasn't opposed to getting T-Rich as much as giving up a 1st rounder for him. Seemed to be a high price.

  22. #43
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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Isn't Pagano a "professional"? Am I missing something? He made the choice to bench Richardson and replace him as the starter, did he not? Shouldn't that tell us something? Or since Grigson is his superior, Pagano's choices are superseded? I can't believe people are still defending this guy. Just admit it: You are both stubborn and will not admit you are wrong (hell, or even might be wrong) under any circumstances.

  23. #44
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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Isn't Pagano a "professional"? Am I missing something? He made the choice to bench Richardson and replace him as the starter, did he not? Shouldn't that tell us something?
    Yeah, and the timing of when Pags decided to bench Richardson was pretty telling. His first benching was on that Dec. 1 home game against Tennessee. We were 7-4 and Tennessee was 5-6. Had we lost that game, then we would have only had a one game lead on them and would have really been feeling the heat. Pagano obviously knew this. There was a "do or die" feeling going into that game and Pagano decided to roll with Brown.

    This is a different case than the Lance Stephenson example mentioned early in the thread. With Lance, people like Bird and Boyle were saying that he was great in practice away from the public eye. They were watching things that we weren't privy to, so we had to take their word for it. Grigson OTOH is talking about T-Rich's impact on the actual games that everyone else is also able to watch. I don't care what Grigson's title is, he can't change what's on the tape. And the tape said that T-Rich was not a good runner, which was why his own coach decided to finally bench him when the season was on the line. This isn't meant to say that T-Rich didn't do some good things, such as picking up rushers and catching the ball. But I think that running the ball was the number 1 thing the Colts had in mind when they traded for him, and he was not good at it. Sure, the offensive line deserves a huge chunk of the blame, but other running backs looked much better running behind the line this year.

    I'm not totally giving up on the guy yet. We have no choice but to coach him up and hope that he can improve. Some of the stuff can be improved on. Sometimes he just hesitates way too much as if he's waiting for some magically large hole to open up, when he could get more of a gain if he would just commit to a spot. There's one run against NE where this really sticks out. He had space to get some yards if he would have just committed to a spot early, but instead he screwed around and was tackled early because he never committed to a spot. Part of this probably comes from his days at Alabama where he could just sit back and wait for that beast OL to clear a massive hole. But that doesn't really happen consistently in the NFL even if you have a really good offensive line. You have to commit to a spot quickly in the NFL.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Isn't Pagano a "professional"? Am I missing something? He made the choice to bench Richardson and replace him as the starter, did he not? Shouldn't that tell us something? Or since Grigson is his superior, Pagano's choices are superseded? I can't believe people are still defending this guy.
    Yeah, it does say something, it just doesn't say what you think it says. I think it's pretty telling that Bball was able to go from saying that Trent didn't bring any positives, to acknowledging he does bring positives.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Just admit it: You are both stubborn and will not admit you are wrong (hell, or even might be wrong) under and circumstances
    I see you're back on the kick of ignoring what was just said. I just admitted that Trent being a bust IS possible. My point has never been that Trent will go down as some great Colt rb, and that his impact is such a great one. Nope, never been my point. My point has always been that he hasn't gotten a fair shake, and that we should give him more time before declaring ourselves right. I don't know what will happen, neither do you. Only one of us is arguing that the discussion is over.

    I just don't think it's too much to ask to give a guy one offseason with a team, before declaring a concrete opinion. Patience is almost a dirty word now. There's a reason why I put that LB quote in my sig.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-21-2014 at 01:44 PM.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    This is a different case than the Lance Stephenson example mentioned early in the thread. With Lance, people like Bird and Boyle were saying that he was great in practice away from the public eye. They were watching things that we weren't privy to, so we had to take their word for it. Grigson OTOH is talking about T-Rich's impact on the actual games that everyone else is also able to watch. I don't care what Grigson's title is, he can't change what's on the tape. And the tape said that T-Rich was not a good runner, which was why his own coach decided to finally bench him when the season was on the line. This isn't meant to say that T-Rich didn't do some good things, such as picking up rushers and catching the ball. But I think that running the ball was the number 1 thing the Colts had in mind when they traded for him, and he was not good at it. Sure, the offensive line deserves a huge chunk of the blame, but other running backs looked much better running behind the line this year.
    He doesn't NEED to change what's on tape. He only needs to think areas that Trent is good hold more value than what we think it is. Like I said to Bball, you can look at it like he's saying he's the reason why the Colts won 12 games, or you can look at it that he's a reason why they won ONE game. If Grigson is going through game film, sees something miniscule that has a huge impact (say picking up a rusher) that he thought Donald never would have and it kept a game winning drive going, the statement rings true. Without Trent picking up that hypothetical rush, the game could have ended differently.

    But it's easier to just make dumb one liners about doing drugs than actually critically thinking about what was said, and the roles/impacts all the players have as a collective unit.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Let's also not forget that Grigson made his name in the NFL through talent evaluation with the Eagles.

    EDIT: And quite frankly, the statement is just a statement to let everyone know that the Colts haven't given up on Trent.
    Last edited by Since86; 01-21-2014 at 01:55 PM.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  28. #48

    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    He doesn't NEED to change what's on tape. He only needs to think areas that Trent is good hold more value than what we think it is. Like I said to Bball, you can look at it like he's saying he's the reason why the Colts won 12 games, or you can look at it that he's a reason why they won ONE game. If Grigson is going through game film, sees something miniscule that has a huge impact (say picking up a rusher) that he thought Donald never would have and it kept a game winning drive going, the statement rings true. Without Trent picking up that hypothetical rush, the game could have ended differently.

    But it's easier to just make dumb one liners about doing drugs than actually critically thinking about what was said, and the roles/impacts all the players have as a collective unit.
    Really this is how I look at it. I don't think the COlts win 12 games without either Bradshaw, Brown, Trent or Ballard.

    I also remember Brown trying to cut block at NE LB who just hurdled him for a sack. That happens a lot less when Trent is in the game.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yeah, it does say something, it just doesn't say what you think it says. I think it's pretty telling that Bball was able to go from saying that Trent didn't bring any positives, to acknowledging he does bring positives.



    I see you're back on the kick of ignoring what was just said. I just admitted that Trent being a bust IS possible. My point has never been that Trent will go down as some great Colt rb, and that his impact is such a great one. Nope, never been my point. My point has always been that he hasn't gotten a fair shake, and that we should give him more time before declaring ourselves right. I don't know what will happen, neither do you. Only one of us is arguing that the discussion is over.

    I just don't think it's too much to ask to give a guy one offseason with a team, before declaring a concrete opinion. Patience is almost a dirty word now. There's a reason why I put that LB quote in my sig.
    Your points really aren't that clear. The only point I have really been able to surmise before this was us armchair GMs might want to STFU and trust Grigson.

    He's had two years in the league and has done nothing with either of them. That's more of a chance than a lot of guys get. If he didn't have so much invested in him (3rd overall pick for Cleveland; first round pick for us), I think there's a very fair argument to be made that he might be fighting for a roster spot come next season.

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    Default Re: Ryan Grigson: We don't win 12 games without Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Your points really aren't that clear. The only point I have really been able to surmise before this was us armchair GMs might want to STFU and trust Grigson.
    I'm sure they could be a bit more clear, but I'll also say that you should probably read what I've said before you go after me personally. Especially right after I admit that it's possible the Colts just got fleeced.


    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    He's had two years in the league and has done nothing with either of them.
    If you don't think 12TDs and 1300 yds from scrimmage is doing anything, then I don't know what else to say except your standards are out of this world.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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