The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns...had&id=1976521
By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider
Thursday chat wrap with Chad Ford
The Pacers' expectations at the start of the season were pretty straightforward.
Win an NBA Championship ... or bust.
"The Pistons are the champs and you respect what they have accomplished," Pacers GM Larry Bird told Insider in October. "But we can compete with them. In fact, we can compete with them better than we did last year. To be the champs, you have to beat the champs. I think we've got as good a shot as anyone."
That feeling only swelled when the Pacers traveled to Detroit on Nov. 19 and destroyed the Pistons on their home floor.
"When we played Detroit up there, we beat them easily," team president Donnie Walsh told Insider. "We did it without two of our starters [Reggie Miller and Jeff Foster]. I think it was at that point that we felt like we were serious, serious contenders."
But minutes before the final buzzer, disaster struck both teams' seasons. The brawl in Auburn Hills, Mich., will go down as one of the ugliest incidents in the history of the NBA. The Pacers suffered the brunt of the aftershocks, losing Jermaine O'Neal for 15 games, Stephen Jackson for 30 games and Ron Artest for the season.
After seeing their team decimated by huge suspensions in the wake of the incident, the goals of the franchise changed dramatically. Championship aspirations were shelved. The Pacers simply wanted to survive.
"We had this incident, it was terrible for us and the league, and we got the suspensions," Walsh told Insider this week. "Our immediate goal was to survive this and win as many games as we can. We felt if we could stay around .500, we'd really have a shot once guys started coming back."
Mission accomplished. On Wednesday in Boston, Jackson returned to the fold with the Pacers clinging to a 20-19 record and the No. 8 spot in the Eastern Conference. After the loss to the Celtics, they were just three games behind the Pistons in the Central Division and 4½ games away from a No. 2 seed in the playoffs.
But Thursday night, the Pacers lost more ground, slipping below .500 after an 88-76 defeat to the Pistons in their third meeting of the season, in spite of having O'Neal and Jackson back. Do the Pacers really have enough firepower, sans Artest, to win it all?
If the answer is no, will Walsh and Bird succumb to the urge to trade Artest for a player who might make the difference between an early playoff exit and the NBA Finals?
Still contenders?
Despite the loss of Artest, the Pacers have a number of reasons to believe they're still as good as the Pistons and Heat.
To begin with, one of the Pacers starters blossomed with O'Neal, Jackson and Artest in street clothes.
Point guard Jamaal Tinsley has evolved this season from a good basketball player into an all-star caliber point guard. The Pacers signed Tinsley to a six-year, $40 million extension this summer that is beginning to look like a serious steal.
Tinsley remains one of the best floor generals in the NBA, but he is no longer a pass-only point guard. He's dramatically improved his outside jumper over the course of the past few years and isn't afraid to use it. Teams can no longer sag on him on the offensive end. His 17.3 ppg average (before Thursday's game) this season is dramatically better than his career-high of 9.6 ppg during his rookie year. His scoring output should decline now that O'Neal and Jackson are back, but he should remain an effective weapon in the Pacers' offensive attack.
Tinsley also has evolved into one of the best defensive point guards in the league. He uses his strength, quick hands and great instincts to shut down opposing point guards. This season, he ranks third in the league in steals. But that's not the total story. As stats guru John Hollinger pointed out in this year's Pro Basketball Forecast, Tinsley's impact goes beyond steals. According to a complicated set of formulas Hollinger has assembled tracking individual defensive matchups, Tinsley led all NBA point guards in defensive efficiency last season. Judging from what we've seen this year, he's doing it again.
"Jamaal has really kept us together during all of this," said Walsh. "He's really grown as a player. He really makes our team run smoothly. I think people really have under rated just how good he really is."
Second, the Pacers have, arguably, the best bench in the East. That's partly why they were able to survive without O'Neal, Jackson and Artest for so long.
"We have a lot of depth," Bird said. "Over the course of an 82-game season, that gets more important to you. Injuries are going to happen. Sometimes it's just a matter of outlasting your opponent."
Their bench has improved. Seldom used before the Motown Melee, reserves Fred Jones, Austin Croshere, James Jones and rookie David Harrison were thrust into prime-time roles after the suspensions and responded with impressive numbers.
Now that they're back in supporting roles, they have more experience to step up when called upon.
"I think those guys have really grown as basketball players because of this," Walsh said. "In the past, we've always believed we had a deep bench, but they weren't really tested. Now that they've been out there, and won games for us, I think Rick [Carlisle] knows that he can lean on them now."
Third, the Pacers might be the most motivated team in the league right now.
The Pacers have had to use a ragtag mix to remain competitive.
Jackson and O'Neal are on fire about what happened and can't wait to take it out on their opponents ... on the court.
"I'm so happy I'm back I want to scream," Jackson said Tuesday. "We've got a sense of urgency right now. We want to get some momentum going now, and then be rolling when we come out of the All-Star break."
Jackson says he has a lot of emotions he's ready to release after sitting at home and watching his team struggle without him.
"That sucked," he said. "Watching my teammates win and lose those close games and not be a part of it was terrible. Sitting in that hotel room and knowing I could have made one play to help determine the outcome, or at least pat somebody on the butt, that really destroyed me."
Jackson is now vowing to not only lift the offense, but also to take over Artest's role as the team's defensive leader.
"If anybody has to play on both ends of the court, it's me," he said. "Not having our defensive stopper in Ron, I'm willing to take on that challenge. I did it in San Antonio and I did it in Atlanta. I'm willing to do it here. I'm going to try to do everything on the court."
Jackson's debut in Boston on Wednesday night was a mixed bag. He scored 17 points but shot just 6-for-18 from the field in a loss to the Celtics. Jackson's legs gave out in the third quarter, and he missed 12 of his last 15 shots.In the loss to the Pistons on Thursday, Jackson scored 11 on 4-of-13 shooting. Obviously, it's going to take a while for him to get his wind back, but in the long run, his return will mean a lot to Indiana.
Finally, the Pacers' stiffest competition, the Pistons and Heat, have their fair share of weaknesses.
The Pistons have not been playing with the competitive fire they did last year. They've been in some sort of malaise all season and seem to be as snakebit as the Pacers were about the brawl. Over the past few weeks, head coach Larry Brown has been complaining about the team's effort, and just this weekend, Ben Wallace, the poster child for effort in the league, shot back at Brown, telling him to lay off.
While the addition of Carlos Arroyo should bolster the Pistons' backcourt, the team still has enough depth issues to be vulnerable. If they catch lightning in a bottle again this spring, they probably will be too tough for the Pacers to beat. But if the Pistons continue to tread water, the Pacers can take them even without Artest.
The Heat got off to a fantastic start but have had their own share of problems lately. While Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade might be more dominant than any player on either the Pistons' or Pacers' roster, the rest of the team has serious issues.
After a great start, Damon Jones has hit a serious wall. Eddie Jones has been up and down all season. Udonis Haslem has played well, but he's a role player. The fact the Heat signed Qyntel Woods on Wednesday shows you how desperate they are. The bottom line is that to succeed in the playoffs, the Heat probably need to add a player or two, and stay injury-free.
With all of that said, the Pacers remain realistic about the speed bumps they now face if they're going to win a title.
"The suspension changed everything," Walsh said. "We'll be a good team. Ronnie is a very good player. You can't say we're as good without him as with him."
"Still, we'll be competitive. Real competitive."
Pistons president Joe Dumars agrees.
"I still think the Pacers are a force to be reckoned with," Dumars told Insider. "Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal give them enough power to compete with anyone in the league."
Trade Artest?
While the Pacers still are clearly in the playoff hunt, there are as many questions as there are answers.
Walsh (center) and Bird (right) want to keep Artest in Pacers' colors -- for now.
Without Artest to shut down the opponents' best player, can the Pacers be as good defensively as they need to be?
Artest was also their second-most important offensive player. Can Jackson, Tinsley and the bench players pick up the slack?
Can the Pacers come together in the middle of the season? Despite the passion, it's not as easy as it seems.
Moreover, do those question marks ever tempt the Pacers to trade Artest for a player who could immediately improve their chances of winning a title this season?
"We're not going to do it," Walsh said. "Not at the trade deadline, anyway."
"We're not going to panic. If you look toward where this team will go, ... sooner or later all of our players are coming back including Ronnie. The average age of our team is 25 years old, and all of our key players are on long-term contracts. We have to keep that in mind."
The Pacers are certainly inclined to be patient. But the truth is, the lack of quality offers for Artest has made that stance an easy one to adopt.
Walsh's position on the topic softens a bit when the question is posed a different way. What if someone offered the Pacers a really good player for Artest?
"If we got offered a very, very good player, maybe that would be different," Walsh said. "A team would have to offer us a top 10 to 15 player for us to trade Ron. We're not getting those type of offers."
The Pacers probably won't. Most of the teams that were interested in Artest wanted him on the cheap, or wanted to stick the Pacers with a big contract in return.
But are the Pacers demands unrealistic? No one disputes Artest's talent. But he has proven – on multiple occasions – that he lacks judgment. His inability to control himself threw a serious monkey wrench into the Pacers' season. Can they really trust him to come back next season and be a different person?
To put it more succinctly, aren't the Pacers worried Artest could burn them again?
"You can't say 'no' to that question," Walsh told Insider. "Ronnie's had some incidents. I believe he's made improvements. He's really tried to stay out of trouble the last year. He knows now that he can't do anything more or it's over.
“ I also don't think there is a team in the league that wouldn't be frightened by all of the other stuff that Artest brings to the table. The Pacers are really damned if they do, damned if they don't. ”
— A Western Conference executive on the Pacers' debate regarding Ron Artest
"At the same time, we all have to acknowledge that he's going to be looked at and baited, so we have to look at it."
If that sounds like a lukewarm endorsement of Artest, it isn't meant to be. Everyone in the organization seems to have a genuine affection for him.
But the Pacers know there are serious risks involved with keeping Artest. They also know letting him leave without proper compensation might alter dramatically the team's chances to win a title. Balancing the two competing concerns might be the most difficult task Walsh and Bird endure.
One Western Conference executive, who didn't want to be named, empathizes.
"I'm not sure what I'd do in their situation. I don't think there is a team in the league that doesn't want what Artest brings to the basketball court," the executive said. "I also don't think there is a team in the league that wouldn't be frightened by all of the other stuff that Artest brings to the table. The Pacers are really damned if they do, damned if they don't."
The Pacers' window is pretty large. They're young, and their players keep getting better. But the East is getting better, too.
Miami is better. The Cavaliers are getting a lot better. The Magic and Wizards are improved. Generally, this season is a down year in the East. Soon, though, top-to-bottom competition is going to get much tougher.
Do you risk it all, right now, for a better chance to win it all? Or are you patient, and trust that Artest finally has learned his lesson?
The Pacers have until Feb. 24, the trading deadline, to make up their minds. Given the stellar track record of that Pacers front office, it will be tough to second-guess them no matter what they decide.
Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider. -
Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
Thanks for the Post JoseYa Think Ya Used Enough Dynamite there Butch...Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
This is the second time that I've heard from one of the two front office people that if Ron makes one more mistake he will be gone from the league.
Does anybody get the idea that when they went to plead with Stern last week that he just came out & told them that Artest was on his last thread for the league?
Wow, lifetime ban from the NBA. Roy Tarply & who else? I can't remember.
Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
Michael Ray Richardson, maybe?Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
William Bedford.
And pretty much %98 of the 1986 NBA draft.
It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.
Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
Yep, Chris Washburn. And I guess Len Bias would've eventually been banned for life.
Oh, I've got another one...
Stanley Roberts.Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
Originally posted by btownpacer
wow...whatever happend to him???Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
Can Popovich, acting alone, really be called a conspiracy?Originally posted by btownpacer
Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
"Okay, Ma'am. Yer brake fluid's a little low......."Originally posted by indygeezerHey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
I will never, ever, ever, ever understand what made Boston retire Bias' number after what he did.Originally posted by Jay@Section204The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
What did Bias do?
Come to think about it, can someone tell me what every one of these guys did?Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
Whatever happened to the Muslim guy that didn't stand for the National Anthem? I know he didn't get banned, but I don't remember him ever getting on another team. I could be wrong though, I was like 8 at the time.......“Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
I think Len Bias was the one who overdosed on cocaine and died, Hicks.Comment
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Re: Can someone post an Insider article? (Should Pacers trade Artest by Chad Ford)
Originally posted by Dr Huxtable
Didn't he die the night he was drafted by the C's?Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.Comment
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