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Thread: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...thinking-ahead

    Zach Lowe seems to think the Bulls should make a run at Lance:

    If I were Gar Forman/John Paxson, I'd think hard about breaking the bank for Lance Stephenson — an unrestricted free agent who could work on the wing next to Butler and effectively serve as the team's backup point guard, a role Stephenson is playing now for Indiana. Stephenson is a rare thing — an under-25, unrestricted free agent. The Bulls might have to carve out a bit more room to realistically chase him, perhaps by salary-dumping the helpless Marquis Teague, but it's worth a thought. (Side note on Mirotic: The 2014 draft will mark three years since the Bulls picked Mirotic, meaning they could sign him outside the restrictions of the rookie scale, per several league sources.)

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Tanking Time is here!

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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  4. #103

    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter 5m
    THIS JUST IN: Bulls have waived Andrew Bynum. Chicago acquired Bynum in trade with Cavaliers earlier today.
    He's officially waved.
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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  6. #104
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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...thinking-ahead

    Zach Lowe seems to think the Bulls should make a run at Lance:
    Not sure that a Rose and Lance backcourt can shot well enough consistently from distance. Seems like both guys like to do the same thing, drive and get to the rim.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    I don't buy that Bynum would wreck a team led by guys like LeBron, Allen, Wade, and Bosh. Those all seem like stable guys and the main components anyway. IF Bynum is able to produce, then it would be a plus for them, I don't see much of a negative, other than a little money and roster spot.

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  9. #106

    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...thinking-ahead

    Zach Lowe seems to think the Bulls should make a run at Lance:
    I don't know how well Lance would jive with Rose.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Listening to the Simmons/Lowe podcast: They seem to agree that someone is going to throw a huge offer Lance's way. 23 year old unrestricted free agent playing as well as he has been playing?

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    I don't doubt Lance will get a large offer. I have no clue if him and his agent were even bothering to talk to the FO, but I have always felt we should have offered him a nice amount for an extension as soon as possible. Him being unrestricted makes me nervous. But Bird seems to believe we will be fine either way, so I trust that.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichi View Post
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    I don't doubt Lance will get a large offer. I have no clue if him and his agent were even bothering to talk to the FO, but I have always felt we should have offered him a nice amount for an extension as soon as possible. Him being unrestricted makes me nervous. But Bird seems to believe we will be fine either way, so I trust that.
    The long-term core here is George/Hibbert. The other pieces are (to varying degrees) interchangeable. Those are the core pieces though.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichi View Post
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    I don't doubt Lance will get a large offer. I have no clue if him and his agent were even bothering to talk to the FO, but I have always felt we should have offered him a nice amount for an extension as soon as possible. Him being unrestricted makes me nervous. But Bird seems to believe we will be fine either way, so I trust that.
    The biggest extension we could've offered Lance would be 4 years and just shy of 5 million. 5 million total.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichi View Post
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    I don't doubt Lance will get a large offer. I have no clue if him and his agent were even bothering to talk to the FO, but I have always felt we should have offered him a nice amount for an extension as soon as possible. Him being unrestricted makes me nervous. But Bird seems to believe we will be fine either way, so I trust that.
    I think that there is a misunderstanding of Teams giving Players extensions....most notably when it comes to Lance ( a 2nd round Player at a comprable contract ) and how much the Pacers can AT MOST offer him when it comes to "extending him".

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q58

    The question of why the Pacers don't extend Lance is because of the extension that he can get...which is based off of his Rookie Contract. It's not that the Pacers don't want to extend him...it's more that the most that he would get from an extension from the Pacers will significantly pale in comparison to how much Lance will get on the Free Agent Market ( even based off of lower estimates of $7 to 8 mil a year ).

    Someone who has more experiencing calculating this would have to chime in....but from what I read from previous posts ( by those that know far more than I do on this ) I thought that an extension that the Pacers could give him would start somewhere between $3 to 4 mil a year ? . I really don't know the #s....I just know that the MAX Allowable extension offer that the Pacers can offer him would not be anywhere near how much he will get from other Teams when he becomes a UFA.

    NOTE - or what Heisenberg said.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Yeah, Lance was obviously a 2nd rounder so the rookie scale doesn't apply, so any extension would be a veteran extension, which at max can be 107% of the previous year's salary. Which means the most we could offer Lance would be a deal starting at ~1.07 mil. Obviously that's a bit below market.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    The long-term core here is George/Hibbert. The other pieces are (to varying degrees) interchangeable. Those are the core pieces though.
    Lance is on that core too I believe Bird feels the same way or he would have traded the guy long time ago, it would be stupid to spend all that time and years in making him the player he is (and is going to be) to let him go for nothing.

    PG,Roy and Lance are the future.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Yeah I think Lance is now in the core discussion. Maybe not a crucial as Paul and Roy, but he might very well be.

    Can a small market team keep four guys at or above 10 million a year and still stay under the cap? Is George Hill the equivalent of OKC's Perkins?

    If Danny comes back and is capable of being a 18/6/4 shooting 45/40/85 do we resign him because we can't afford Lance? It is going to be close, that is all I know.

    In Bird I trust. Glad he has to deal with it and not any of us.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    The long-term core here is George/Hibbert. The other pieces are (to varying degrees) interchangeable. Those are the core pieces though.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Lance is on that core too I believe Bird feels the same way or he would have traded the guy long time ago, it would be stupid to spend all that time and years in making him the player he is (and is going to be) to let him go for nothing.

    PG,Roy and Lance are the future.
    I know that it's a matter of opinion.....but I think the core is PG/Hibbert/Lance/GH. To me, Bird's goal has always been to retain Team Chemistry over the long-term ( something that I am very sure is something that he believes in strongly ). Having GH and Lance in the core has always been about that. If push comes to shove...I can see Bird picking Lance over GH....but overall....I don't think that one Player is necessarily more important to the Team than the other ( which is DIFFERENT than one Player considered to be better than the other ). I don't think that we can simply "plug and play" any Player into the slot that Lance and/or GH fills and expect that this Team would do as well. They are both equally needed pieces in the machinery that makes the entire engine work.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Yeah I think Lance is now in the core discussion. Maybe not a crucial as Paul and Roy, but he might very well be.

    Can a small market team keep four guys at or above 10 million a year and still stay under the cap? Is George Hill the equivalent of OKC's Perkins?

    If Danny comes back and is capable of being a 18/6/4 shooting 45/40/85 do we resign him because we can't afford Lance? It is going to be close, that is all I know.

    In Bird I trust. Glad he has to deal with it and not any of us.

    I see what you did there and I'm not falling for it

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Yeah I think Lance is now in the core discussion. Maybe not a crucial as Paul and Roy, but he might very well be.

    Can a small market team keep four guys at or above 10 million a year and still stay under the cap? Is George Hill the equivalent of OKC's Perkins?

    If Danny comes back and is capable of being a 18/6/4 shooting 45/40/85 do we resign him because we can't afford Lance? It is going to be close, that is all I know.

    In Bird I trust. Glad he has to deal with it and not any of us.
    At most, the Pacers can make an offer to any other Free Agent at the full MLE since we will be above the Salary Cap but under the LT. If Granger averages 18/6/4 shooting 45/40/85 ( which I think is OVERLY optimistic ), he won't come back to the Pacers for the full MLE.

    If we have the full MLE to spend while having a need to fill the Starting SG/SF spot....I am of the opinion that we should go after someone else.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Yeah I think Lance is now in the core discussion. Maybe not a crucial as Paul and Roy, but he might very well be.

    Can a small market team keep four guys at or above 10 million a year and still stay under the cap? Is George Hill the equivalent of OKC's Perkins?

    If Danny comes back and is capable of being a 18/6/4 shooting 45/40/85 do we resign him because we can't afford Lance? It is going to be close, that is all I know.

    In Bird I trust. Glad he has to deal with it and not any of us.

    I'd agree with this. PG and Roy are keep at all cost players, West, GH, and Lance are core players but at a lower level.
    It's amazing how many threads turn into how much Lance will get offered this summer. All I do is go back and look at Bird's comments from a few weeks ago. He makes it clear that if he can't sign Lance he'll plug someone else in and we'll be fine. It's only realistic to have a plan B in case Lance does get an offer we can't match and if Granger is heatlhy he will be our plan B.
    I hate to see how crazy the forum is going to be come day one of free agency.

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  27. #119
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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    We have Danny's bird rights, so we would not have to use the mid-level on him. If Lance gets an offer of more than 10 or 11, then our option would be to resign Danny and sign someone to a part of the MLE.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Lance is on that core too I believe Bird feels the same way or he would have traded the guy long time ago, it would be stupid to spend all that time and years in making him the player he is (and is going to be) to let him go for nothing.

    PG,Roy and Lance are the future.
    What would we have gotten for Lance had we traded him a long time ago? He just started to gain any semblance of value, so trading him would have netted us...what exactly?

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    What would we have gotten for Lance had we traded him a long time ago? He just started to gain any semblance of value, so trading him would have netted us...what exactly?
    Nothing pretty much what the Pacers are going to get for him if they are stupid enough to let him go, they paid a lot of money to get him straight, Clark Kellogg was the first guy they hired to help him grow up I don't think Larry spend all this time and money just to let another team get him for free when he is not even in his prime.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Lance is like a jewel Bird is polishing. I suspect he will do whatever it takes to hang onto him. Yet, some of this will come down to how well Lance plays in the sand box. If he's throwing sand in people's eyes, he may find a new address. Otherwise, he will be a Pacer. He is indeed one of the big 3 on this team with Paul and Roy being the other two.

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  33. #123
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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Nothing pretty much what the Pacers are going to get for him if they are stupid enough to let him go, they paid a lot of money to get him straight, Clark Kellogg was the first guy they hired to help him grow up I don't think Larry spend all this time and money just to let another team get him for free when he is not even in his prime.
    If he is priced out of our range, then he is priced out of our range. You know how you get roped into making stupid decisions? By making emotional decisions. How many times have we seen GMs and the like in all four professional sports get themselves into trouble by hanging onto "their guys" for too long? If it comes to us losing Lance, I suspect Bird will at the very least find a way to get assets for him (draft picks, trade exceptions, etc.) as opposed to just letting him walk away for free.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    If he is priced out of our range, then he is priced out of our range. You know how you get roped into making stupid decisions? By making emotional decisions. How many times have we seen GMs and the like in all four professional sports get themselves into trouble by hanging onto "their guys" for too long?
    You can also have a similar situation to what OKC had with Harden you let the young star go and think you are replacing him with the former star(Kmart) just to realized that you have made the biggest mistake in your life(OKC's Harden trade is considered one of the worse ever).



    If it comes to us losing Lance, I suspect Bird will at the very least find a way to get assets for him (draft picks, trade exceptions, etc.) as opposed to just letting him walk away for free.
    In the new CBA there is not motivation for other teams to give you an asset just look at what the Lakers got for Howard, nothing.

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    Default Re: Bulls trade Deng to Cavs

    I think the outcome of this scenario is pretty simple.

    Lance will either be paid between 6-9 Mil by the pacers and other minor moves will be made to try and allow that to happen and we stay under the cap.

    A team outbids us, and Lance goes to play for more money on a less successful team; while Larry tries to make a roster move to replace Lance.

    In all honesty, we have to allow the rest of the season to play out to truly get a sense of what to expect. If Lance is able to prove that he's irreplaceable on the team, then I think moves will be made on the roster. Either way, I honestly don't see Bird overpaying (in his mind) to keep Lance (or anyone for that matter)

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