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Thread: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

  1. #1
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    JO, in the paint, actually trying to get in position for an offensive rebound.

    Jeff Foster, wide open at the elbow, passes the ball farther out to Reggie.

    Reggie doesn't shoot either.

    Whistle... Three-second violation.

    JO, in frustration, screams at Foster to shoot the damn ball.

    Foster shrugs him off, then a few seconds later fires up one of the ugliest jumpers in history.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That little sequence seems to completely illustrate the January 2005 version of the Indiana Pacers.

    No chemistry, poor offensive strategy and execution, a lack of trust between teammates. Its almost like these guys are complete strangers.

    And dare I say it: they may need a coach right now that's stronger with personalities than x's and o's.

    I'm not saying Rick should be on the "hotseat", but I'm not giving him a free pass, either.


    ++++++++++++++++

    If I were Peck, I'd ask a bunch of insightful questions. But I'm not. So fire away at me anyway.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #2
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    "What have ya done for me lately, baby (or ever)" Why not put RC on the hot seat. The way the team is playing somebody should be on the hot seat and the coach is always the one with a target on his back first. If he deserves it, he deserves it. I still do not like our offensive rebounding/defensive fall back strategy. Or inside-out game. That might work better if we had a inside player that was a great passer, but we don't have that guy. So that strategy only works as long as it is an inside/inside game.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

  3. #3
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    You want Rick on the hotseat? We're at 500 after the worst suspensions in history?

    Your standards may be a bit high.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    You want Rick on the hotseat? We're at 500 after the worst suspensions in history?

    Your standards may be a bit high.

    But we're 5-9 in January. To say we're still at 0.500 is putting too much weight on the fact that we started out 7-2 before the suspensions.

    But all I said was that he doesn't get a "free pass", so I'll let Geezer defend that any further. However, if we're 5-5 over the next ten games, I'll be really mad at somebody, and it will start with him.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    I don't believe Rick should be in danger of losing his job. Certainly not on the hot seat in that regard.

    But clearly the wheels have fallen off the wagon and Rick shares a responsibility in enabling that to happen. And he shares in the responsibility of getting it fixed.

    I have problems with how this team approaches their work (attitude and chemistry) as well as a problem with how they perform their work (the offensive strategy).

    That's pretty damn all-inclusive. It's absolutely horrendous that I can sit here as fan of this team for 37 years and say that I don't like their attitudes and I don't like the way they choose to play ball. Frankly that scares the hell out of me.

    I would give anything if Rick, even after the return of JO and SJax, would turn this team back into a free-wheeling, equal-opportunity team that it was immediately following the suspensions.

    That team was fun to watch, and it was totally about the players being united against the world. They used their talents to the fullest, which is all I will ever ask.

    I want my team back.

    Rick, are you listening?

  6. #6
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Do I want Rick in the hotseat ? no

    did anyone say he was ? no

    May we question what he does ? yes
    do we? yes

    What I saw last night was scary in many ways.
    I do surely hope that this is not the Jax we are gonna see all season (and I do not even mention his % ) where in he held the ball, waited wait waited waited and then went 1 on 4 to get his shot.
    Where he made hardly any pass, and was extremely wild on defense.

    but I am sure it will get better.

    But what Jay says is correct, we may wonder if the dug in offense, which however last night was very understandable with Mel being sick, is suitable for this group minus Ron.

    I hope that everyone involved takes a good long look and then does what is needed.
    People naggin about JO taking to many shots should always look at numbers before they speak.
    With Mel out he took the last game and this one 23 and 22 shots, certainly not to much for someone scoring 27+ on average, 10-22 last night with 27 points, 9 rebounds 2 Ast, 4 BS, two like that on a team and you have a championship team, uhhh oops, sorry.

    it would be wonderful if Rick allowed this team with a healthy Mel and warmed up Jax to play as they can and want, I am sure success will come, I am also sure that this happening is just around the corner.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  7. #7
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    OK, I have to say this.

    I thought all the chemistry problems were because of Ron

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    To nit-pick, I said, "no chemistry".

    I edited my original comment before posting, but I originally wrote: "last night this team looked like a pick-up team at the park. They looked like they had no idea how to make all the parts work together."

    That's different from bad chemistry.

    Maybe it is all due to Tinsley being less than 100%. I said before the season that I believed he'd grow into being our second most important player...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  9. #9
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    OK, I have to say this.

    I thought all the chemistry problems were because of Ron
    They are - he went into the stands - and sent everyone in the Ps organization in a panic/tailspin. Not good for chemistry.

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    OK, I have to say this.

    I thought all the chemistry problems were because of Ron
    I don't recall hearing anything about chemistry problems until Ron returned to practice......
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    OK, I have to say this.

    I thought all the chemistry problems were because of Ron
    Of course, that's why our team looks so tight on the court now! Sharing the ball, creating opportunities for each other... high-fives etc...

  12. #12
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Jay already said it. Ron caused bad chemistry. Our problem now is not bad chemistry. Our problem is no chemistry at all.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    I've been thinking about a post questioning Carlisle. It almost made it into my posting last night but I slept on it.

    This is an unprecedented situation so I'm not sure how to think.

    -Bball
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    OK, so let me get this straight. Ron causes bad chemistry when he plays; he causes bad chemistry when he does not play.

    Maybe he does, BUT, I would much rather have bad chemistry and win 61 games, then have bad chemistry and win 45

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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    I haven't lost faith in Rick. This situation would absolutely kill most coaches. In fact no other coach has had to deal with what Rick has this season. Injuries are a part of the game but the suspensions on top of them have put a serious cramp on what he wants to do.

    20-21... that's not that bad of a record considering the constant distractions and lineup changes they've undergone. You have to take everything in context and when I do, I can't lay the blame on the coaching staff.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Sorry, I dont follow your logic. If Ron doesnt go into the crowd, then we are not missing him, Jo, or Jax, and we are probably one of the best, if not the best team in the league.

    Oh, and I dont care about 45 or 61 wins, I care about NBA Championships.


    My point is many are saying things were so bad when Artest was playing, that he was selfish and causing bad chemitry, and now those same people are saying the lack of Ron is causing bad chemistry, and selfishness.

    maybe all the problems are not caused by Ron

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by btownpacer
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    I'm not saying a lack of Ron is causing these things. I'm saying this situation created by Ron is causing these things.

    But if he was the cause of bad chemistry last season as many suggest, then l;ogic would tell us that the removal of Ron would help the chemistry

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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by btownpacer
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    If you simply subtracted Ron without him causing the most devastating event in franchise histroy, yes.

    But the logic you're attempting to use is simply......wrong.

    That's a good point, Buck. It's not just that Artest is gone, it's the reason he is gone that disrupted the team's chemistry.

    The Pacers are caught in a catch 22 when it comes to Artest.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  19. #19
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    I don't think anybody wants Rick gone. I think they do question exactly what the hell is going on on the court. It's ugly and it's not getting results. I WILL question the heart and effort of the players though (never thought I would say that about a Pacer team).

    Unless I'm wrong, I don't think another team has ever gone through what we have this year. So, Rick has a pass from me.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    I remember that sequence of plays Jay... and had similar thoughts.

    There is plenty of blame to go around right now. As good a job that Rick has done keeping the team afloat in this difficult season, we shouldn't feel bad at placing some of it at his feet.

    Rick can call timeout after timeout, but nothing is going to change if you don't adjust your strategy....add a new wrinkle, or a new play... something. the Pistons aren't going to suddenly forget how to lockdown our plodding predictable offense. Hell the Celtics shut us down for chrissakes.

    I think by the end of the game last night you saw a team frustrated with an offense that isn't very effecient , effective or adjustable,,, so you wind up with some players trying too hard to make things happen on their own....which only leads to bad shots, turnovers...etc...and compounds the lack of trust in each other.

  21. #21
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    I almost started a thread coming to Rick's defense after the western trip, but I didn't.

    First of all, it should go without saying that Rick did a tremendous job post-11/19. I really do not know how anyone could have done better.

    The problem is everyone is burning out. Not just the players, but the coaches, as well. I've seen Rick make some incredibly stupid decisions the last few weeks, along with probably each and every one of our players, as well.

    I think Jay does make a good point. Rick's x-o's got us through December, but now we could use more work on the psychology front. That's why I like Mike Brown so much, and I'm gonna miss him when he's gone. When he leaves, our coaching staff becomes very dry.

    My biggest criticism of Rick is him quoting Chuck Daly and talking about how much he enjoys the crisis management. That's just laying yourself open to get panned for the situation we're in.
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  22. #22
    Member skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    I think Ron's ability masked some of the problems that the team is experiencing now.

    AJ's non-existant PG ablilty of handing off to Ron works alot better than handing off to Reggie as Ron was able to create his own shot.

    People that are complaining about JO taking 'all of the shots' were probbly complaining about Ron taking so many shots last season. Having 2 primary scorers and a bunch of complimetary players works alot better than 1 primary scorer.

    I think this team is still adjusting as players return. I'm confident that Rick will make the necessary adjustments to get this team playing better ball. Alot of you critisize RC for being to slow about making changes, but he tends to make the right changes when he does act.

  23. #23
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    JO, in the paint, actually trying to get in position for an offensive rebound.

    Jeff Foster, wide open at the elbow, passes the ball farther out to Reggie.

    Reggie doesn't shoot either.

    Whistle... Three-second violation.

    JO, in frustration, screams at Foster to shoot the damn ball.

    Foster shrugs him off, then a few seconds later fires up one of the ugliest jumpers in history.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That little sequence seems to completely illustrate the January 2005 version of the Indiana Pacers.

    No chemistry, poor offensive strategy and execution, a lack of trust between teammates. Its almost like these guys are complete strangers.

    And dare I say it: they may need a coach right now that's stronger with personalities than x's and o's.

    I'm not saying Rick should be on the "hotseat", but I'm not giving him a free pass, either.


    ++++++++++++++++

    If I were Peck, I'd ask a bunch of insightful questions. But I'm not. So fire away at me anyway.
    I just read this entire thread & it seems to me that everybody skipped the one major issue on this.

    Jeff Foster sucks.

    Ok, maybe that's just what I got out of that but then again I am insane at the moment.

    No really does everybody not remember that Jermain O'Neal was begging (in public) for the Pacers to get a better center?

    I think he was asking for a center who would bang down low & not force him to take a pounding each game. A center who could step out & hit an open shot on occasion. A center who could make an entry pass.



    Do I need to go on. We had that damn center!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  24. #24
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Do I need to go on. We had that damn center!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

  25. #25
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is one play a microcosm of what we're all feeling?

    I'm surprised it took 29 posts for my secondary point to come out.

    Has JO had it with Jeff? Not Jeff personally, but the undersized, physically overmatched Jeff.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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