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Thread: Playoff Thread

  1. #301
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Terry Bradshaw is 4-0 in SBs as well but nobody seems to care when it comes to him being a possible GOAT in fact its considered laughable.

    Which is why I can't take rings only as the determining factor to greatness of a QB there are many great ones who have never won an SB and its a shame they are considered "less of a QB" because of it.

    It's obviously not completely fair to compare Bradshaw to more modern quarterbacks since the rules today heavily favor the passing game, but Bradshaw's career stats are pretty ugly by any objective measure. Roger Staubach played in that era and has much better stats. Bradshaw threw just two more career touchdowns than interceptions. I don't care what era you play in, that's bad. However, he did up his play BIG TIME in the postseason and particularly the Super Bowl. He also certainly had a big luxury in that he that defense to back him up.

    Montana has the stats AND the Super Bowls. Brady too. Your Eli's and Bradshaws are certainly HOF quarterbacks because they played so good when it mattered most. But they don't deserve to be ranked above guys like Manning and Marino, who played superior football at the position.

    Where rings come into the picture is when you're trying to compare guys like Manning and Brady who are so similar in most other areas (reg season stats, reg season wins, division titles, etc). It's never going to be completely fair because it's not like a quarterback can play defense, but it's certainly an important thing to look at. At the end of the day, it's just something that is debated by talking heads and people on a message board. It's not like Manning and Brady are fighting for some "GOAT prize" at the end of their career.

    That being said, you can't downplay the importance of this looming AFC Championship Game when it comes to legacies.

  2. #302

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Yeah sure until the next game comes along and then what? What if whoever wins this game ends up losing the SB? Then what? This game won't mean so much after that now will it?

    People say this game decides who's the better QB except it doesn't at least no more than the ones before it. Its all a matter of opinion as to what you value more as to who you think was the better player. I personally though Marino who I never liked was a better QB than Joe Montana who I did like because I based it on individual talent. However Montana will be celebrated more because he won championships and is considered better. Marino though his career is worthless in comparison to Montana's and he's heard it every day of his career one way or another. Same with Jim Kelly etc.

    Its just not as interesting to say but its at least based in reality that its all about perception and not much else.

    This game won't decide who's better it will only decide who goes to the Super Bowl this year. That's all it will decide.

  3. #303
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Yeah sure until the next game comes along and then what? What if whoever wins this game ends up losing the SB? Then what? This game won't mean so much after that now will it?

    People say this game decides who's the better QB except it doesn't at least no more than the ones before it. Its all a matter of opinion as to what you value more as to who you think was the better player. I personally though Marino who I never liked was a better QB than Joe Montana who I did like because I based it on individual talent. However Montana will be celebrated more because he won championships and is considered better. Marino though his career is worthless in comparison to Montana's and he's heard it every day of his career one way or another. Same with Jim Kelly etc.

    Its just not as interesting to say but its at least based in reality that its all about perception and not much else.

    This game won't decide who's better it will only decide who goes to the Super Bowl this year. That's all it will decide.

    But if Manning loses this game, there might not be a "next game" as far as the AFC Championship Game is concerned. And there certainly might not be a "next game" when it comes to facing Tom Brady in the playoffs. After having the greatest statistical regular season in NFL history, Manning has the opportunity to knock his nemesis out of the playoffs and advance to the Super Bowl. At his age, he might not ever have an opportunity like this again.

    Manning has played a long time and you obviously can't define his entire career by this one game. But if he were to win this game and then go on to win the Super Bowl, he will have unquestionably had the greatest QB season in NFL history. He would have the regular season records, an AFC Title victory over Tom Brady, and a Super Bowl victory over the Niners or Seahawks outdoors. If you were to add all of that to the context of his impressive comeback from an injury, I don't think even the biggest Manning hater could deny that it would be the greatest QB season ever. That's still a lot of major "ifs", but it's not ridiculous to think about since Manning is now in the Final Four.

    Manning will never have the head to head record over Brady, but a late career AFC Title victory over him would be a big feather in his cap. While he would still only be 5-10 vs. Brady, he would be 2-2 against him in the playoffs and 2-1 against him in AFC Title games. Thus, this game is certainly big as far as legacies are concerned. It would sting to lose the Super Bowl, but beating the Pats in the AFC Title game would still be better than losing to the Pats in the AFC Title Game.

    Of course, if Brady and the Pats win this game, then I don't really see how anyone could ever objectively argue that Manning is better than Brady.

    This might just count as one game in the win/loss column, but it's worth way more than that as far as history is concerned. These are the types of games that get replayed for years and years afterwords.

  4. #304

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    But if Manning loses this game, there might not be a "next game" as far as the AFC Championship Game is concerned. And there certainly might not be a "next game" when it comes to facing Tom Brady in the playoffs. After having the greatest statistical regular season in NFL history, Manning has the opportunity to knock his nemesis out of the playoffs and advance to the Super Bowl. At his age, he might not ever have an opportunity like this again.

    Manning has played a long time and you obviously can't define his entire career by this one game. But if he were to win this game and then go on to win the Super Bowl, he will have unquestionably had the greatest QB season in NFL history. He would have the regular season records, an AFC Title victory over Tom Brady, and a Super Bowl victory over the Niners or Seahawks outdoors. If you were to add all of that to the context of his impressive comeback from an injury, I don't think even the biggest Manning hater could deny that it would be the greatest QB season ever. That's still a lot of major "ifs", but it's not ridiculous to think about since Manning is now in the Final Four.

    Manning will never have the head to head record over Brady, but a late career AFC Title victory over him would be a big feather in his cap. While he would still only be 5-10 vs. Brady, he would be 2-2 against him in the playoffs and 2-1 against him in AFC Title games. Thus, this game is certainly big as far as legacies are concerned. It would sting to lose the Super Bowl, but beating the Pats in the AFC Title game would still be better than losing to the Pats in the AFC Title Game.

    Of course, if Brady and the Pats win this game, then I don't really see how anyone could ever objectively argue that Manning is better than Brady.

    This might just count as one game in the win/loss column, but it's worth way more than that as far as history is concerned. These are the types of games that get replayed for years and years afterwords.
    By "next game" I mean their next game not necessarily the playoffs because they always treat these games as if its life and death over their careers even though it really isn't.

    My point is these narratives are made up as they go along people act as if Manning has never won an SB in his career even though he has. And back then when he did these narratives of how he can't win the big game were supposed to "go away" except they haven't. Instead they've gotten worse go figure.

    And even if the Broncos win on Sunday(which I doubt they will) and go on to win the SB you really think this narrative will have gone away? No they'll come up with something else like "Well he's only won 2 SB's if he's going to be the GOAT he has to win another..." Its all about the drama and story and less about reality when it comes to these discussions.

    There's no such thing as the GOAT at least one that's undisputed because there will always be someone that's considered better that's out there and everyone has a different definition of who they believe is the greatest to ever do it.

    So if the Broncos lose on Sunday I don't think Manning's entire career is worthless because of it even though its going to portrayed as if it is.

  5. #305

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Who has ever come within a light year of portraying Manning as worthless? There is criticism / splitting hairs about how the top half dozen of so QBs of all time rank for their career accomplishments (Montana, Brady, Manning, Marino, Unitas, Elway, ?). Nobody thinks that any of them come remotely close to sucking.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  6. #306

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    "He has all these great stats, records.. but"- Insert any pundit

    "His career is a disappointment if he doesn't win another ring" - Rodney Harrison

    Worthless may be a bit too blunt on my end but that's how it comes across. Not every player is fortunate to win multiple championships or even one for that matter and I don't think Marino, Kelly etc are less of a QB because they weren't fortunate to win one. Although I have to say Kelly gets a major pass for losing 4 SB's how nobody labels him a choke artist is beyond me(no I don't think he is one but if Manning lost 4 SBs in a row he would be labeled one he already is now go figure).

    The media makes their own narrative and picks and chooses who fits into certain narratives.

    Tom Brady- Winner, clutch as they come etc even though he hasn't won an SB in nearly 10 years.

    Peyton Manning - Can't win when it matters except in Super bowl XLI you know when he did but that never happened go figure with the way the media tells it.

    I mean people can think whatever they want but I just find this type of analysis to be lazy

  7. #307

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Ummm... Persistent negative media portrayal is the main reason why Tom Brady is the most disliked QB in the NFL (by fans) while at exactly the same moment in time he is the 2nd most admired player in the game and the greatest team leader in the game by opposing players, coaches, and NFL team executives. To the extent Manning is criticized, Brady is the portrayed as the game manager who "hasn't won anything since spygate" and who would be nothing without the greatness of his coach or without a great D to carry him. Let's just agree to disagree, I guess.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  8. #308
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Slick, I'm just curious, do you think that Belichick will continue to coach the Pats after Brady finally hangs it up for good? Or do you think they'll go out together?

  9. #309

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    I suspect a co-exit in ~3 years. Brady Has Played in at least the AFCCG in 8 of 12 Starting Seasons (amazing stat, really), and I expect BB will find it convenient to not be there for the inevitable fall to Earth.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 01-17-2014 at 03:34 PM.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Playoff Thread






  12. #311
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Aaron Hernandez will NOT be allowed to watch the AFC Championship, according to Bristol County Sheriff Tom Hodgson.
    — NFL on ESPN (@ESPNNFL) January 17, 2014
    They should make him watch it, and then everyone could sit around pointing and laughing at how big of a dumbass he is for throwing the good life away.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  14. #312

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Apparently others can watch part of the game he can't watch any of it but yeah I agree

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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    The best Championship Weekend I remember in recent years was two seasons ago when both Pats-Ravens and Giants-Niners came down to the wire. I'm expecting that the two games this weekend will live up to hype and come down to the wire. I'd be pretty surprised if either game was won convincingly.

  16. #314

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    I found this and wondered why the NFL doesn't have a Gone Fishing segment


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  18. #315
    THE WITCH IS DEAD!!! Coopdog23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    NE will have to play clock ball and they can with their running game. I still got the Broncos by 14.
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Talib out. Right now this looks like a match-up of a team that has been completely decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball versus one that still has an intact loaded offense.

  20. #317
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Hoodie just got burned on another 4th & 2.

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  22. #318

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    when Austin Collie is your go-to guy, the talent disparity is just huge

    weakest Pats roster since 2002, and it is finally biting them
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  23. #319
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    when Austin Collie is your go-to guy,
    I don't know about that one. Julian Edelman for one, and they have a pretty decent group of RBs. I can agree with you that it is a rather weak roster but Collie can't be the go to.
    2013-2014
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  24. #320
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Stopping that two point conversion was huge.

  25. #321
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Peyton back to the Super Bowl.

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  27. #322

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    To the surprise of no one, Skip Bayless is already making excuses.

  28. #323
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Peyton's got to be thinking, "out of all Super Bowls in the last 30 years, of course I have to go to the one that will have the $#!+ weather!"


    Although wasn't the Colts against the Bears win in a rainstorm?

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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    So who wants to be the first person to say that they wish Peyton was a Colt right now?

  30. #325

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Sick of Peyton fans, but I'm always happy to see the Pats lose.

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