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Thread: Playoff Thread

  1. #101

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    Knile Davis fractured his fibula against Colts

    Posted by Josh Alper on January 8, 2014, 8:48 AM EST
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    The Chiefs saw a series of players exit their 45-44 loss to the Colts with injuries last Saturday and coach Andy Reid offered updates on their conditions on Tuesday.

    Running back Knile Davis appears to be the cause for the most concern as Kansas City’s offseason gets underway. Davis fractured his left fibula when he was injured in the second half while also spraining his knee, an injury that Reid said on 810 Sports, via the Kansas City Star, “scared the heck” out of the running back.

    Reid also said that Davis will be fine, but it’s unclear whether he’ll be able to take part in the team’s offseason program. If he isn’t, that might help another back make a bid to make the team if the Chiefs decide to move on from third-stringer Cyrus Gray.

    The Chiefs also confirmed that linebacker Justin Houston has a knee sprain and bone bruise and announced that wide receiver Dwayne Bowe had a minor foot sprain. Running back Jamaal Charles, cornerback Brandon Flowers and wide receiver Donnie Avery all suffered concussions and, per Reid, are all improving while going through concussion testing.

  2. #102

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    A Super Bowl loss is nothing like going one and done as a #1 seed, or losing to a near-0.500 team on your home field.

    The loss to the Jets was indeed a choke, playing an opponent that they had already spanked 45-3. Also it was one of the few big coaching blunders you will see BB make, benching Wes Welker at the start of the game because of some harmless foot jokes.
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  3. #103
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    Super Bowl losses hurt more, though. So close, and it's taken away.
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  5. #104

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    A Super Bowl loss is nothing like going one and done as a #1 seed, or losing to a near-0.500 team on your home field.

    The loss to the Jets was indeed a choke, playing an opponent that they had already spanked 45-3. Also it was one of the few big coaching blunders you will see BB make, benching Wes Welker at the start of the game because of some harmless foot jokes.

    But they were expected to blowout the Giants after all they went undefeated in the regular season, had one of the greatest offenses in NFL history, lead by an all time great QB with the most talent he's ever had in his career and still lost....

    Sounds like an epic fail to me.

    Although in the off chance the Broncos were to get to the SB this year and lose it you will say the same. Even though the regular season has no bearing on how well a team plays in the playoffs its all about matchups and everyone is on an even playing field. I mean look at the 2011 Packers they were supposed to walk to the SB but then the Giants came in and upset them nothing they did in the regular season mattered and Rodgers got off relatively easily for that one.

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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

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    But they were expected to blowout the Giants after all they went undefeated in the regular season, had one of the greatest offenses in NFL history, lead by an all time great QB with the most talent he's ever had in his career and still lost....
    I don't think the Pats were expected to blow the Giants out. The Pats only beat the Giants by 3 points (38-35) in Week 17 to complete the 16-0 season. The Giants were red hot coming into that Super Bowl after incredible road playoff victories against Dallas and Green Bay. I think most people felt that the Giants were a decent threat to the Pats, regular season records aside.

    EDIT: I see that the Pats were a 12 point favorite in that game. I seem to remember a lot of people thinking that was way too high, IIRC.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 01-08-2014 at 11:20 AM.

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  8. #106

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    I don't think the Pats were expected to blow the Giants out. The Pats only beat the Giants by 3 points (38-35) in Week 17 to complete the 16-0 season. The Giants were red hot coming into that Super Bowl after incredible road playoff victories against Dallas and Green Bay. I think most people felt that the Giants were a decent threat to the Pats, regular season records aside.
    They were favored by 14 points. Then Plaxico made the prediction they would beat the Pats and they would only score 17(yeah he gave them a bit too much credit with that one) Sounds like a blowout to me at least by SB standards.

    My point is the Giants were rather mediocre that year and they got hot at the right time and won it all. Despite the Pats being considered one of the greatest offenses in NFL history. It didn't matter come postseason.

    Regular seasons are worthless beyond determining who's in it that's all its for.

  9. #107

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    It's well beyond me how anyone can consider a team making an 18-0 run all the way to the super bowl to be an "epic fail", losing in part due to one of the most unlikely plays in sports history that was pulled off by a young unheralded player making the last catch of his entire career.

    Every team that ever played and did not make it to the Super Bowl or that lost in the Super Bowl was far more of an epic fail than that one, including all but one Indianapolis Colts team in their history.

    An epic disappointment? Sure. To not win a title with probably their second most-talented team in their history was disappointing (talent IMO: 2004>2007>2003>2012>2001) But that is an entirely different argument.

    Losing on Saturday would not be close to an epic disappointment. This is no more than the 10th-12th most talented team of the Brady-Belichick era, owing to 7 injured starters (4 of them pro bowlers) and poor salary cap-related roster moves in the last offseason (Welker & Woodhead mostly)
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    They were favored by 14 points. Then Plaxico made the prediction they would beat the Pats and they would only score 17(yeah he gave them a bit too much credit with that one) Sounds like a blowout to me at least by SB standards.

    My point is the Giants were rather mediocre that year and they got hot at the right time and won it all. Despite the Pats being considered one of the greatest offenses in NFL history. It didn't matter come postseason.

    Regular seasons are worthless beyond determining who's in it that's all its for.
    Like I said in my EDIT, I seem to remember quite a few people thinking that the betting line was way too high. Besides, it's just a betting line (though I understand that the odds makers obviously know what they're doing). The Pats had only beaten the Giants by 3 points in the regular season and the Giants were coming off of two huge road playoff games.

    I agree with what you're saying though. The talent gap between teams at the playoff level is pretty small. Often teams have disappointing regular season records because of injuries they suffered throughout the season, but then they get guys back healthy and are a way better team for the playoffs (Ravens last year). With the unpredictable one and done format, anyone can win it all. It's gotten to a point where you almost expect a team that had to play in the wildcard round to win it all: 05 Steelers, 06 Colts, 07 Giants, 10 Packers, 11 Giants, 12 Ravens. 2009 was an aberration when the two regular season powerhouses (Colts and Saints) actually both made it.

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    Epic fail is the 2013 Texans. I would never consider making it to the title game as a failure except for Scott Norwood of the Bills.
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Every team that ever played and did not make it to the Super Bowl or that lost in the Super Bowl was far more of an epic fail than that one, including all but one Indianapolis Colts team in their history.
    Isn't that the way most think about the Colts/Peyton? If you don't win, it's a choke/fail. That's the standard, whether we like it or not.
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  15. #111

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    It's well beyond me how anyone can consider a team making an 18-0 run all the way to the super bowl to be an "epic fail", losing in part due to one of the most unlikely plays in sports history that was pulled off by a young unheralded player making the last catch of his entire career.

    Gee I don't know probably because every team in the Patriots way that season had no chance to beat them we heard that ALL SEASON LONG until you know it happened.

    The goal was to win the SB not have the perfect season and lose the SB. Hence "Epic Fail" but when it comes to Manning especially how come he's so great in the regular season but only has one SB yet there are great regular season teams through the years and never won a ring. The 1998 Vikings, 2011 Packers list goes on... Regular season doesn't guarantee postseason success never has is my point. But for the Colts/Manning it was supposed to go figure.

  16. #112

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    Isn't that the way most think about the Colts/Peyton? If you don't win, it's a choke/fail. That's the standard, whether we like it or not.
    Well, that's what is beat into our brains by the broadcast folks. Personally, I think different teams can have different levels of success - or failure. Last year's Colts for example. Rookie QB, new coaching, bunch of new players and yet they go 11-5. Failure ?? Not in my opinion. Quite successful - i thought.

    I guess every team and all their fans are supposed to sulk around after the season if their team doesn't take the title. I just disagree.

  17. #113

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    Gee I don't know probably because every team in the Patriots way that season had no chance to beat them we heard that ALL SEASON LONG until you know it happened.


    When they eeked out a 3 point win over 5-11 Baltimore, a 3 point win over 8-8 Philadelphia, and a 3 point win over the Giants you were thinking that nobody had a chance to beat them? How about the 4 point win over the Colts? Really, the Colts had no chance, with the league's #1 rated defense + Manning, at home?

    Seems like agenda-driven revisionist history to me.

    In the last half of 2007 the Patriots were very much beatable. It was in fact quite remarkable that they always seemed to find a way to win those games.




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  18. #114

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    Isn't that the way most think about the Colts/Peyton? If you don't win, it's a choke/fail. That's the standard, whether we like it or not.
    wow, I hope not.

    To you, every season but one in the history of the Indianapolis Colts has been a choke/fail? Really?

    Every game has a win probably associated with it. Winning three or four playoff games in a row is difficult. Michael Jordan made 83.5% of his free throws for his NBA career. Thus the odds of him making 4 in a row when he needs to are 48.6%. Has any NFL playoff game struck you as being as sure of a win as Michael Jordan making a free throw?

    You can have the best team in the NFL by far, in the regular season, and the odds are way less than 50% that you will win the title in any one season.

    It is when you go one and done roughly 70% of the time that the choke/fail label gets tossed out there. As a team you are then shooting free throws like Shaq, blindfolded, when you had before shot them like Reggie Miller back when the pressure was off.
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  19. #115

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    [/COLOR]When they eeked out a 3 point win over 5-11 Baltimore, a 3 point win over 8-8 Philadelphia, and a 3 point win over the Giants you were thinking that nobody had a chance to beat them? How about the 4 point win over the Colts? Really, the Colts had no chance, with the league's #1 rated defense + Manning, at home?

    Seems like agenda-driven revisionist history to me.

    In the last half of 2007 the Patriots were very much beatable. It was in fact quite remarkable that they always seemed to find a way to win those games.




    Yeah that's it not because the media kept going on about the Patriots pursuit of perfection(not to say it wasn't warranted to an extent because its not as if perfect seasons happen all the time) but yeah they kept "running up the score" so to speak yeah teams had no chance.

    They did give the Colts a chance better than other teams but really I was referring to the playoffs and namely the Super Bowl. Where what they did in the regular season had no bearing on if they would win that game or not.

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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    wow, I hope not.

    To you, every season but one in the history of the Indianapolis Colts has been a choke/fail? Really?

    Every game has a win probably associated with it. Winning three or four playoff games in a row is difficult. Michael Jordan made 83.5% of his free throws for his NBA career. Thus the odds of him making 4 in a row when he needs to are 48.6%. Has any NFL playoff game struck you as being as sure of a win as Michael Jordan making a free throw?

    You can have the best team in the NFL by far, in the regular season, and the odds are way less than 50% that you will win the title in any one season.

    It is when you go one and done roughly 70% of the time that the choke/fail label gets tossed out there. As a team you are then shooting free throws like Shaq, blindfolded, when you had before shot them like Reggie Miller back when the pressure was off.

    To me? No. But as a Peyton Manning fan, I've had that standard pushed down my throat by the media, and by NE fans who think SB rings is the end to all arguments. It's just kind of funny reading a NE fan rebuke the idea when that's the legs they stand on when discussion Brady V Manning.
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  22. #117

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    Manning got a national media free pass for every one and done, all of the way until 8 of them had piled up after last season. Then a few (a very few) speak-your-mind types like Deion Sanders and Chris Carter started at least mentioning it.

    Did any national media person every say a peep of criticism about the pick-6 Super Bowl INT? No. The ratio of criticism for Brady's intentional grounding safety on the opening play in 2011 to Manning's game-ending pick six would be infinite, because division by zero is not allowed. If there was one criticism of the INT that I missed, then the ratio would not be in the single digits.

    No national media criticism of Peyton Manning as a Colt was ever pushed down your throat, because it simply didn't exist. Did Patriots fans recognize the emperor's clothes? Yes. A number of Colts fans now seem to have joined them. Most media haven't gone anywhere near there though, even now. Or will they, most likely, even with a San Diego win this weekend.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 01-08-2014 at 04:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Manning got a national media free pass for every one and done, all of the way until 8 of them had piled up after last season. Then a few (a very few) speak-your-mind types like Deion Sanders and Chris Carter started at least mentioning it.

    Did any national media person every say a peep of criticism about the pick-6 Super Bowl INT? No. The ratio of criticism for Brady's intentional grounding safety on the opening play in 2011 to Manning's game-ending pick six would be infinite, because division by zero is not allowed. If there was one criticism of the INT that I missed, then the ratio would not be in the single digits.

    No national media criticism of Peyton Manning as a Colt was ever pushed down your throat, because it simply didn't exist. Did Patriots fans recognize the emperor's clothes? Yes. A number of Colts fans now seem to have joined them. Most media haven't gone anywhere near there though, even now. Or will they, most likely, even with a San Diego win this weekend.

    Hmm, I remember a ton of "Peyton can't win the big game" talk for years before he won the Super Bowl. First it was that he couldn't win a playoff game period. That was the narrative before the wildcard win against the Broncos 10 years ago (his first playoff win). Then the talk was that he couldn't beat the Pats and get to the Super Bowl. In fact, didn't Boomer Esiason say something like, "Peyton Manning better start looking for a house in A-Rod's neighborhood?" when the Pats were up 21-6 at halftime in the 06 AFC Championship game? The Colts and Peyton were also absolutely roasted after they lost that Pittsburgh game at home in 05.

    Winning the Super Bowl 7 years ago obviously caused a lot of that talk to go away for a while. He was a champion who slayed the Patriots in one of the most epic comebacks in NFL history, so he deserved massive props for that. But I remember plenty of criticism after the pick 6 against New Orleans. Of course, it was definitely overshadowed by the main story of that game, which was the onside kick.

    Him and the Broncos will get roasted plenty if they lose this game, trust me. And as bad as the Ravens loss looked at the time, it didn't look quite as bad once they went on to beat New England and San Francisco. Peyton's offense looked better against the Ravens than the Pats' did the following week, but Peyton get the "one and done" label because he happened to run into them first. I seriously doubt that the Broncos would have lost to the Texans.

    I just don't buy the idea that the whole "Peyton can't win the big game" talk is something that only a few Pats fans whispered about. It's been a huge narrative in a national media for over a decade, though it certainly lost some steam after he slayed the Pats and won the Super Bowl.

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  25. #119

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    Esiason's quote:

    Here’s the deal for Peyton Manning, perception is reality. If he doesn’t win on Sunday and doesn’t get to the Super Bowl, he might as well buy a house next to A-Rod -- Alex Rodriguez -- because they’re going to be living in the same neighborhood. And that’s the neighborhood of the guys making the most money without the championships with the most stats in the regular season. I don’t feel that way because I think it’s horrific that these two great athletes have to be looked at in that vein. But that’s unfortunately the way it’s going to be perceived."

    so this scathing rebuke was basically

    "I think that this guy is the greatest and that that nobody should be saying anything at all about his losing playoff record, but if he suffers another big loss, especially against Brady and where he makes some key mistake, then I think that he will start being viewed as a choker and that would be both very unfair and a shame"

    http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...ms_boomer.html

    I do remember being absolutely gobsmacked that a national media person (while himself not taking a shot at Peyton) would even suggest that someday someone in the media might take a shot a Peyton, if what eventually didn't happen (a loss in the next game) did in fact happen.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 01-08-2014 at 05:28 PM.
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  26. #120

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    Well it figures you would live in your own bubble of reality as a Pats fan because as Sollozo pointed out we've heard about it ad nauseum(Time Magazine even did an article about it) and still hear about it today(despite winning a SB) because apparently nobody else's "failures" are interesting enough except for Tony Romo but he barely can get into the playoffs these days so that storyline can only go so far.

    So yes its rather laughable for you to say otherwise. Rest assured nobody in the media wants Manning to actually win the SB(even though they will publically claim they do) because then they may have to come up with another "storyline". Instead of you know reporting things as they are at the moment and not some melodrama.

  27. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Manning got a national media free pass for every one and done, all of the way until 8 of them had piled up after last season. Then a few (a very few) speak-your-mind types like Deion Sanders and Chris Carter started at least mentioning it.

    Did any national media person every say a peep of criticism about the pick-6 Super Bowl INT? No. The ratio of criticism for Brady's intentional grounding safety on the opening play in 2011 to Manning's game-ending pick six would be infinite, because division by zero is not allowed. If there was one criticism of the INT that I missed, then the ratio would not be in the single digits.

    No national media criticism of Peyton Manning as a Colt was ever pushed down your throat, because it simply didn't exist. Did Patriots fans recognize the emperor's clothes? Yes. A number of Colts fans now seem to have joined them. Most media haven't gone anywhere near there though, even now. Or will they, most likely, even with a San Diego win this weekend.
    Hahaha.... All thru that period Colts fans were complaining it was all about Manning choking but Brady could do no wrong for the media...

    Apparently that worked the other way too...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Hahaha.... All thru that period Colts fans were complaining it was all about Manning choking but Brady could do no wrong for the media...

    Apparently that worked the other way too...
    The difference is that one viewpoint is based on reality nd the other is pure delusional B.S. We know which is which.

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  30. #123

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    Rest assured nobody in the media wants Manning to actually win the SB(even though they will publically claim they do)
    How do you go about determining what "the media" wants other than by listening to what they say and what they write? Unless you know a certain writer has a consistent history of saying one thing and believing another, based on some amount of personal knowledge, I cannot fathom how you can determine that.

    When 19 out of 20 writers say that it would be great if Peyton gets another ring before he retires, wouldn't it most likely mean that they think it would be great if Peyton gets another ring before he retires?
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    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Manning got a national media free pass for every one and done, all of the way until 8 of them had piled up after last season. Then a few (a very few) speak-your-mind types like Deion Sanders and Chris Carter started at least mentioning it.
    Seriously? My brother is/was a huge Tenn. Vols fan and loved Peyton so I got to watch a good share of his college career and the narrarative him before he even came to the NFL is that he choked away big games because he couldn't get Florida. The narrative just kept on going.

    EDIT: Here's an article from 2004
    But Manning was the show, dispelling the perception that he somehow choked in "big games."
    "I hope people think this was a big game," Dungy said. "We kept hearing about Peyton's failure to win big games. I guess this was a big one."
    http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=240104011
    Last edited by Since86; 01-09-2014 at 10:11 AM.
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  32. #125

    Default Re: Playoff Thread

    I know Gators fans who feel that way too, and always have. Peyton critics walk the Earth, that is true. Nearly none of them are member of the national media. They seem to top out as fan message board pundits, guest columnists for the Independent Florida Alligator, or (maybe) rah-rah beat reporters for the Gainsville Sun.
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