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Thread: Big Roys low post game

  1. #1
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    Default Big Roys low post game

    I love big roy. I think he has become a defensive stud. something I was begging for last season early on when he was in his slump. if big roy foreva focus's on defense and shutting down fools in the lane the guy is going to be the best center to ever play for the Indiana pacers.

    what I am wondering is how Big Roy is not more dominant offensively. now I know we got several weapons, and Big Roy is not looking to hog the stats,, he cares about winning. we PG, DW, lance, hill, scola,, so its not like we need 20 nite in and nite out.

    so early in roys career he would get an offensive board and not be strong with it.

    I guess I just don't understand how Roy is not a consistient 20 pt scorer while offering strong defense and rim protection. centers often come into their own lil slower than other positions but Roy is reaching that point where his offensive game needs to improve because he has the talent.

    I don't expect Big Roy to be the second coming of Patrick Ewing. I guess maybe what im asking is what do you believe Big Roy can do to become a greater offensive player. the guy has a great touch.

    for me,, I would love to see the following from Big Roy.

    1) sometimes I feel like he gets to fancy. it seems like Roy could score 20 a nite just simply posting up on the right block and hook shotting alas Kareem with the right hook time and time and time again.

    I don't mind the left hand hook but I just think Roy settles. he should just overpower players and that right hook is unblockable.

    2)

    pump fake. pump fake. pump fake. so often Roy.. and ive griped about this before and will again,, don't get why he doesn't get a power base more often. I love Hibbs but at times he seems awkward with his footwork. his size I would love to see a power dribble .. power base.. and just hook em to death or pump fake and power dunk that ****



    All im saying is.. Big Roy has the talent. his footwork still needs improvement but has made huge strides. and that hook shot.. as Shaq says.. he just hook em to death big fella. for example tonite.. a play on KG he spun and faced up on KG. he could just back KG's old a** down and hook right over him on right block any day of the week and twice on sunday.

    just seems like Roy makes it more difficult than need be. with his size he should have the kareem shot down to a science.


    with that said.

    BIG ROY Defensive Player of the Year.

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  3. #2
    Member Downtown Bang!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Roy doesn't have a particularly low center of gravity which makes it tough for him to establish deep position on a regular basis. He keeps working on his strength & conditioning so this can improve but he just isn't genetically gifted this way. Ultimately it causes him to start a lot of his post moves too far out on the floor. I like it when Roy initiates his post position off of a pick or some other action where the play is designed to allow him to start the play deeper.

    Roy has some good post moves but seems to lack a go to move that he can count on. I'd love see him initiate contact with his lower body and then and go up with that little right-handed jump hook over his left shoulder a little more often. It seems to be the most natural move he has and doesn't require a lot of elevation for him to get it off cleanly.

    Roy has a nice face-up jumper from the elbow area and could be a more prolific scorer if he took that shot more often. Problem is that is D-West's area of operation. In the years to come Roy will get more opportunities from there.

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  5. #3

    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    I'm also thinking they like to save his strength for the playoffs....They don't want him banging too much in the regular season.....He averaged 20ppg last year in the playoffs (I'm pretty sure), right? His jump hook could become his signature move.
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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    It's a long season. I'm fine if the heavy-lifting is spread out throughout the season. When the Pacers meet Miami in the ECFs, they're going to need Hibbert playing at an unbelievable level night in and night out.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    We have an offense with heavy ball movement. Lance and PG are creating for others. The days of passing to Roy or David, and everybody else standing around are over
    David "And One" West

  9. #6

    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Its tough to dominate in the post when we have Lance, Paul, David, Danny, and Luis who can all score and need the ball to do that

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    We have an offense with heavy ball movement. Lance and PG are creating for others. The days of passing to Roy or David, and everybody else standing around are over
    I agree 100% that the ball movement is better and the team is spreading the wealth way more effectively.

    However at some point in the playoffs the game will slow down and it will become necessary to bludgeon teams (Miami) with low post scoring and putbacks. Roy will be the key to that effort and he will need to execute.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    When Roy gets the ball in the post he usually produces. The issue is that Vogel isn't calling plays for him. Vogel has made comments that he wants to make more of an effort to get Roy involved but so far those have just been words. It's hard to argue with succsess when shots are falling but I still think this team is more dangerous when we play from the inside out. Roy should be getting at least 10-11 shots every game.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
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    Roy doesn't have a particularly low center of gravity which makes it tough for him to establish deep position on a regular basis.
    Very well said. his center of gravity is not good but hell he is 7'3 or whatnot. I agree maybe he cannot collect himself with a power base, power dribble, then pump fake power dunk.

    His footwork needs improvement. I guess I would just like to see overpower other players with the hook shoot alas Kareem. I agree with whoever stated it earlier, Roy does need a signature move.

    Gotta like to see Roy working with Tim Duncan during the offseason. Duncan is so fundamentally sound, and his footwork is one of the best ever.

    I got faith Big Roy will find his game and the next few seasons offensively. The hook shot should be unstoppable.

  13. #10

    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    The biggest problem is we still have issues getting the ball inside.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    The biggest problem is we still have issues getting the ball inside.
    Also, any center with a little girth is able to push him out of position.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    I think Roy has been doing fine for what this team needs. We have enough scorers in the starting line-up. He works so hard on the defensive side of the ball that when he gets to playing in big games with large centers he is looking more to pass the ball rather than take the shot himself. In the last Miami game it seemed like Roy was a little intimated by their big three but Roy has played to just what this team needs when opposing teams throw it into the paint. He may not get the block, but he makes the shooter adjust their shot making it a tougher shot that more often than not. I really like Roy is doing this year.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    When we get to the point that Roy and Paul are both making 20 million per season, then yes, he will average 18-20 ppt. Until then, Roy is the 4th option offensively and will stay around 12-13 ppt.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    I'd hate to see Roy's fg% in order to get him to average 20pts. Roy is good enough offensively, that you have to get him the ball a couple times and roll with him when he's got it going, but bad enough you can't feature him.
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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Roy can do one of two things. He should probably work on both.

    1. The mid-range Kareem sky hook.
    Roy try's his floating hook a little too close (where they're hacking at him) and he has to maintain position. If he's not going to get those called as fouls then he needs to bring it out just a little. Kareem was automatic a few feet out. He had space to work and fouls were more obvious. Takes tremendous touch, a lot of practice.

    2. slide to a good spot down low and BREAK DOWN. Spread your legs out, bring your body lower and stick your hands OUT for a bounce pass.
    When you get the pass your almost in dunk territory. Remember that! Be strong with the ball. Feel his weight and move up strong and pivot. You're getting a high quality shot or going to the line.

    What he seems to do is something in the middle and it's not particularly effective.
    He seems to want to shoot in that five to eight foot shot. That's probably the easiest place to get hacked and bodied and not get to the line.
    If he gets it at say ten feet out where they'll let him and try's to back it down he's just as likely to get a turnover or an offensive foul as anything.
    He should just hook it from there. I don't think all that flailing around to get it to seven feet in is worth it.

    But the other is what I'd most like to see.
    Just slide down under the bucket and spread out! if it doesn't look like the pass is possible then "get up" and circle around, and do it again. Eventually the timing will be right. He will be under and positioned low. Bounce pass comes in so all that over the back crap is useless. Then as he gets higher he loses his low gravity and can be pushed but hes already in dunk or near dunk position. Probably get fouled.

    I see him "fighting for position" he's usually too high up and there's a lot of arm flapping on both sides.

  20. #16
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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    We need to involve him in the offense just a little more. Like the TNT guys like to say, you gotta reward your big man for playing good on the defensive end. Whenever Roy gets a couple good baskets you can see it totally re-energizes him on the defensive end.

    Usually we'll go to him a few times early in the 1st quarter and if he misses those first couple shots he doesn't get another play called for him the rest of the game. The fact that we have moved from an inside-out offense to a mid-range jumpshooting offense kinda scares me.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    I really don't think that Roy is that talented. Maybe lucky, for avoiding/overcoming potential injury issues. But he's one of the few players in the league I consider to have surpassed his potential (or what I perceived to be his potential) by quite a bit. (I would put Danny in this category too.)

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    I really don't think that Roy is that talented. Maybe lucky, for avoiding/overcoming potential injury issues. But he's one of the few players in the league I consider to have surpassed his potential (or what I perceived to be his potential) by quite a bit. (I would put Danny in this category too.)
    I disagree. No idea what you perceived Roy to be in terms of potential. I always considered Roy as having the ability to get you 12 pts, 8 reb, and a block. As far as defensively you cant teach height as they say.

    3 years ago if someone would have posted if they had the choice between Big Roy and D12 they would have been laughed out. In that regard, I guess he has exceeded all expectations. Also, Roys Durability is outstanding. Which is attributable to how well he trains in the offseason and conditions himself in season as well.

    I guess all I was looking for is in comparison to "Franchise Centers" like Hakeem, Patrick, Yao, Shaq, Duncan; I would definitely say he is just a notch below those guys and his Defense may catapult him into the discussion already. If he can develop some consistent go to low post moves he could very well be mentioned with the elite tier of upper echelon centers to have played this game.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Big Roy pump faked this game. Love seeing that. allows him to collect himself.

    hated seeing Varejo abuse him tho at times offensively. Big Roy should have locked down the paint better than he did today.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Roy's biggest weakness is center of gravity, but as his body matures hopefully that changes a little bit. It will definitely help his game at both ends. In any case, he is valuable enough on defense right now that he can still be the MVP of this team when his offense is merely gravy.

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Roy's biggest weakness is center of gravity, but as his body matures hopefully that changes a little bit. It will definitely help his game at both ends. In any case, he is valuable enough on defense right now that he can still be the MVP of this team when his offense is merely gravy.
    I agree with you about his center of gravity being his biggest weakness, but how will that improve later? Isn't that basically tied to his height and frame?

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Roy's biggest weakness is center of gravity, but as his body matures hopefully that changes a little bit. It will definitely help his game at both ends. In any case, he is valuable enough on defense right now that he can still be the MVP of this team when his offense is merely gravy.
    Body matures? He's 27.
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  29. #23

    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Roy has no problems scoring. I think he/the team chooses to sacrifice his offense for the rest of the team. He's that unselfish, but he'll score when he needs to (in the playoffs).

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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I agree with you about his center of gravity being his biggest weakness, but how will that improve later? Isn't that basically tied to his height and frame?
    I don't think it will improve much but my take on it is that you need to limit the contact after he recieves the ball and what I mean by that is this.

    When Roy gets on the low block and has solid postion he can recieve the pass and be in his comfort zone for taking a quick right hook shot. The key word there is quick but when he recieves the ball and tries to back his man down he becomes a much more inefficient player. That is directly due to his center of gravity as its easy for defenders to knock him off balance.

    If you limit the amount of times he puts the ball on the floor either with a post up, face up, or any other postion then you basically make Roy a much more efficeient player from anywhere on the floor. Some guys have the ability to recieve the pass and get great post postion by putting the ball on the deck (David West anyone) and some guys don't. Roy is the later and he needs his passes in postions where he can make one quick move towards the basket or in the case of pnp a jumper. David on the other hand can knock his man off balance while Roy can't with the ball.

    In post ups Roy shoots 43% which he does 46% of the time on the floor.
    As a pnr man he shotos 51% and thats 10% of his offense and turns it over the least out of the three.
    As a spot up shooter either pnp or by some other design he is shooting 53% which accounts for 5% of his offense.

    Things that have helped Roy out a lot is Lances ability to draw Roy's defender on weak side help and Lances ability to pass it to Roy. The pnp and the pnr with PG and Hill have also helped Roy out a lot but all of them have one thing in common and thats making Roy act decively with the ball towards the basket because he already has great postion which is the key for Roy because it limits his need for his center of gravity and the defenses ability to react to him.

    I think the coach can free him up better on those plays but its also on him to get better postion before he recieves the pass and the guards have to reward his effort for getting great postion which sometimes they don't.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 01-01-2014 at 03:46 PM.

  32. #25
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Big Roys low post game

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I agree with you about his center of gravity being his biggest weakness, but how will that improve later? Isn't that basically tied to his height and frame?
    IrishPacer may be right. But I expect his body composition to change at least a little bit. His center of gravity may not shift that much, but just a little could help a great deal, especially if he's physically stronger and packs on just a little more muscle. Strength really is related to this issue. The best thing for him is to eat lots of steaks and spend time in the weight room working on his lower body.

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