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Thread: How do we keep Lance?

  1. #126
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post
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    Just sign lance for around $8-$10 mil a year and offer Granger the MLE and worry about getting under the tax next year before the deadline...I am a huge George Hill fan but a lineup of Lance George Granger West Hibbert is pretty sexy but maybe Larry can talk Hill into being what he was doing in San Antonio and being the 6th man like he was born to do and it might be possible that Hill prefers that role to starting point. Just a thought...

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    I don't understand why many of you are hung up on this whole notion of GH ( this year's scapegoat ) and who should be the Starting PG and who isn't.

    The way Vogel runs the offense and the way that Bird has constructed this Team..….there is no actual Starting PG. Well, technically there is...but there isn't one that is used in the same manner a Starting PG is used on other teams ( GH and CJ play as much "off the ball" as they do "on the ball" while Lance and PG24 handle the ball ). I think that having a Starting Spot on the roster is important to Lance….but having the Title of "Starting PG" ( on a Team that can have the Starting PG, Starting SG or Starting SF have the offense flow through them at any given moment of time ) is minor if not irrelevant. Now…if Bird said to Lance that he wants Lance to be the 6th Man….then I can see Lance balking at that ( cuz ANY Team that is interested in him can offer him a Starting position ).

    If Lance stays…it will be for the $$$, the chance to play for a contender and have Larry as a Boss…not because he's named the Starting PG on the Team over GH.
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  2. #127
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I don't understand why many of you are hung up on this whole notion of GH ( this year's scapegoat ) and who should be the Starting PG and who isn't.

    The way Vogel runs the offense and the way that Bird has constructed this Team..….there is no actual Starting PG. Well, technically there is...but there isn't one that is used in the same manner a Starting PG is used on other teams ( GH and CJ play as much "off the ball" as they do "on the ball" while Lance and PG24 handle the ball ). I think that having a Starting Spot on the roster is important to Lance….but having the Title of "Starting PG" ( on a Team that can have the Starting PG, Starting SG or Starting SF have the offense flow through them at any given moment of time ) is minor if not irrelevant. Now…if Bird said to Lance that he wants Lance to be the 6th Man….then I can see Lance balking at that ( cuz ANY Team that is interested in him can offer him a Starting position ).

    If Lance stays…it will be for the $$$, the chance to play for a contender and have Larry as a Boss…not because he's named the Starting PG on the Team over GH.
    First off I said I like George Hill... my preference would for him to stay the starter but what if he is more comfortable coming off the bench? And lance becomes the point guard we all know he can be? If we run an offense that we don't have a point guard then why does it matter if it's Lance and Paul or GHill and Lance? If it puts us in a better position to win and makes GHill more comfortable, why not?


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  3. #128
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Tyreke's got his problems, but he can't hold Lance's jock? Seriously. Let's see what we think Lance is worth once his jumper dies for 2 weeks again. So contracts be dammed, in a vacuum, you'd take Lance over Tyreke? Hey, welcome to Pacers Digest I guess.
    I don't think you need to be a homer to prefer Lance over the seriously disappointing Tyreke. I mean, the dude's best year was his rookie season, and he's been downhill since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Anyone that thinks Lance's people has a negotiating point at 10 mil, understand that that's more than Steph Curry. Lance's dad wouldn't take him over Curry. So all this "this single player makes a lot of money so Lance needs to make at least that," no, he doesn't. Yes, ankles and all. Let's not pretend Lance is 30 and far removed from having a ton of baggage.
    And then Lance's agent will point out that DeRozan is making nearly $10m. As with all things, timing is everything. Curry signed his undermarket extension right after a season where he played in only 26 games. Lance OTOH is on the rise. You think he'd be interested in talking discounts?

    Anyway, Lance will be on the open market. Whatever valuation we put on him, if there's another team that values him higher, well that's his market value.

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  5. #129
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post
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    Just sign lance for around $8-$10 mil a year and offer Granger the MLE and worry about getting under the tax next year before the deadline...I am a huge George Hill fan but a lineup of Lance George Granger West Hibbert is pretty sexy but maybe Larry can talk Hill into being what he was doing in San Antonio and being the 6th man like he was born to do and it might be possible that Hill prefers that role to starting point. Just a thought...


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    I just don't see why it would be necessary to make changes to a starting lineup that went to Game 7 of the ECF's last year and is 23-5 this year. Inserting George Hill into the starting lineup at the end of the 11-12 season made us a better team and he's been a big reason why we've been so successful since then. Sure he's had a few ugly games this year, but I have complete confidence that he will be completely reliable for us down the stretch this season. We didn't look so hot last year when he missed Game 5 against the Knicks.

    The starting lineup should be set in stone the way it for the foreseeable future.

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  7. #130
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post
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    First off I said I like George Hill... my preference would for him to stay the starter but what if he is more comfortable coming off the bench? And lance becomes the point guard we all know he can be? If we run an offense that we don't have a point guard then why does it matter if it's Lance and Paul or GHill and Lance? If it puts us in a better position to win and makes GHill more comfortable, why not?
    Ignoring that the Pacers can't afford to pay Lance AND Granger at that combined price without going over the LT ( I think that Granger is gone after this season regardless hence this whole "make GH the 6th Man" discussion is "moot" ), I have seen no indications that GH would be more comfortable as the 6th Man role to the Starting role in the 1.5 seasons that he has been here. Maybe he does and just hasn't said anything....but I just haven't seen that coming from him....nor does it fit ( what I think ) his personality.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-24-2013 at 01:03 PM.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  8. #131
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    I don't think you need to be a homer to prefer Lance over the seriously disappointing Tyreke. I mean, the dude's best year was his rookie season, and he's been downhill since.



    And then Lance's agent will point out that DeRozan is making nearly $10m. As with all things, timing is everything. Curry signed his undermarket extension right after a season where he played in only 26 games. Lance OTOH is on the rise. You think he'd be interested in talking discounts?

    Anyway, Lance will be on the open market. Whatever valuation we put on him, if there's another team that values him higher, well that's his market value.
    and if theres a team out there thats willing to overpay for Lance, then Lance will have a decision to make...somewhat similar to the choice Bosh, Wade and Lebron made and not unlike the choice David West just made...

    I will tell you right now...Lance will be able to get more money elsewhere than he will with the Pacers...Now how much more will certainly play into the decision...Paul George has given the team a discount...David West gave the team a discount....and Lance will have to do the same to remain...the only real question at this point is how much that discount will have to be...

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  10. #132
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I just don't see why it would be necessary to make changes to a starting lineup that went to Game 7 of the ECF's last year and is 23-5 this year. Inserting George Hill into the starting lineup at the end of the 11-12 season made us a better team and he's been a big reason why we've been so successful since then. Sure he's had a few ugly games this year, but I have complete confidence that he will be completely reliable for us down the stretch this season. We didn't look so hot last year when he missed Game 5 against the Knicks.

    The starting lineup should be set in stone the way it for the foreseeable future.
    Sorry I started my post thinking we could trade GHill but as I got into my post I realized I didn't want him traded. LMAO but anyway that whole post was because I was talking about trading GHill and changed my mind halfway through!!! haha (but I got so far into it I didn't want to just erase it!!! So I put him on the bench as a 6th man...thought like a good idea at the time)


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  12. #133
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Why is Kyrie better? I don't care about the premature Kyrie over-hyping by the media. On the contrary, Lance has been comically under hyped.
    More clutch, I truly think better playmaking ability, very very good shooter, keeps a woefully mediocre team relevant shouldering much of the burden while being the primary target on opposing defenses...I think most if not all people would take Kyrie over Lance in their sleep
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  14. #134
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
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    More clutch, I truly think better playmaking ability, very very good shooter, keeps a woefully mediocre team relevant shouldering much of the burden while being the primary target on opposing defenses...I think most if not all people would take Kyrie over Lance in their sleep
    IDK and think the jury is out still given the stage of their careers. But honestly, I have not been impressed by Irving as compared to his reputation. He seems fairly easy to shut down...

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  16. #135

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Here are teams with salary cap space next year, from Hoopsworld:

    Lakers: 25.8 million
    Philadelphia: 20.2 to 32.7 million (depends on Evan Turner's and Lavoy Allen's QO)
    Dallas: 31 million
    Utah Jazz — $23-43 million (Gordon Hayward's QO and a bunch of not guaranteed contracts)
    Phoenix Suns — $19.5 million
    Charlotte Bobcats — $19 million
    Orlando Magic — $19 million
    Washington Wizards — $15 million
    Atlanta Hawks — $12 million
    Detroit Pistons — $12 million
    Milwaukee Bucks — $12 million
    Golden State Warriors — $10 million
    Toronto Raptors — $3-23 million (Salmons, Amir Johnson, and Hansbrough are not guaranteed)
    San Antonio Spurs — $7 million
    Cleveland Cavaliers — 6.5-$24 million (Bynum, Clark, and Varejao are not guaranteed contracts)

    The Grizzlies will have about $18m if Randolph opts out. The Bulls will have $12m if Boozer gets the amnesty.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/looking-to...14s-salary-cap
    No offense but I think your list is a bit unrealistic. Sure they can get down to those numbers but a lot of teams would have to drop the option on some good players as well. Plus teams like the GSW don't have 10 mill in cap space. The Bucks also have Mayo and non of those teams listed above 8 mill are contenders.

  17. #136
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    The idea of Paul and Lance playing side by side for the next decade plus.....my God. They are both the same age and both came into the league the same year. Their games complement each other PERFECTLY on the wings.

    It's just nuts to think that we got Paul and Lance in the same draft. How many franchises have ever had a draft where they net two players who are this great?
    IMO, this will go down as one of the single best nights of Bird's leadership reign.

    It was simply a master stroke that put this team in the rare space of potentially establishing a dynasty.

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  19. #137
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    One thing about Lance, regardless of any on court antics, he seems to have it together when he's interviewed. He says the right things and more importantly you never hear him quoted saying something 'Artestical'. He seems to have his head on pretty straight as a human being these days.
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  21. #138

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Scola or not I don't think Cope gets playing time the guy is garbage Vogel knows better than playing him.
    He's not playing because he's not better than Scola or West, which is obvious and every GM, coach, and fan in the league would agree. It doesn't mean he's garbage. He's going to be traded somewhere and do well for them off the bench. Copeland was one of two Knicks players in last year's series who were anything to be worried about.

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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I don't understand why many of you are hung up on this whole notion of GH ( this year's scapegoat ) and who should be the Starting PG and who isn't.
    I was one of the people who started talking a few months ago about what the next moves might be.

    Just for the record, I really like George Hill. In the ideal circumstance, he stays on this team for a long time.

    But I clearly like Lance's future better.

    I suspect (and pray) that the front office understands what they have in Lance and do whatever necessary to lock him up to a long term deal this offseason. Everything that Bird has said suggests as much.

    If this is in fact their strategy, then I think the FO will do everything in their power, up to, and including... exploring trade options for G. Hill to ensure that Lance is a part of this team long term.

    I think that PG, Hibbert, West, Lance, Mahinmi, and Scola are safe this offseason, for different reasons.

    If they win a championship, I think the calculus is easy.

    If they fall short, some important pieces will have to leave this offseason, and Lance won't be among them.

    I'll be eating crow on this board if I'm wrong.

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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    What's up with Copeland? He couldn't even beat Butler or S. Hill for minutes at thee SF position
    It's because he's not really a SF any more than Al Harrington was a SF.

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  25. #141
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    One thing about Lance, regardless of any on court antics, he seems to have it together when he's interviewed. He says the right things and more importantly you never hear him quoted saying something 'Artestical'. He seems to have his head on pretty straight as a human being these days.

    It's all a testament to the hard work that Lance put in, as well as the stability of this franchise.

    Lance was drafted into the perfect situation. The Godfather of the team, Larry Legend, took the young buck under his wing and developed a special relationship with him. It's not every day that a top 5 all time player decides to mentor you. Lance understood that being mentored by the Basketball Jesus was a once in a lifetime opportunity, and he certainly made the most of it. Then you have an incredible young coach who treats his players fairly and commands respect. Furthermore, you have a great group of guys who are older than Lance with West, Hibbert, Hill, and Granger. All of these guys have taught him professionalism and playing within the concept of a team. The icing on the cake is the guy who he was drafted alongside - Paul George. Both of these two young fellas are the exact same age, came into the league the same year, and have a nasty skill set that complements each other perfectly. They will hopefully play their entire careers together. Basketball is no doubt more fun for Lance when the other wing on the team is one of the most talented players in the NBA. Playing here is just the perfect situation for Lance.

    I know that the Knicks had the two picks immediately before we drafted Lance, but I don't think that going home and playing with that unstable organization would have been good for him. I think that coming to a small market with minimal distractions and playing for a stable franchise was the best thing that ever happened to him. It really has been a match made in heaven for both parties.

    But make no mistake, the person who deserves the most praise is Lance. He was the guy putting all of the work in. Bird, Vogel, and his teammates wouldn't have been able to help him if he wasn't willing to work his tail off. Everything you read says that Lance works his a** off every summer and it's pretty obvious given how drastically he improves every season.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-24-2013 at 02:56 PM.

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  27. #142

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    George Hill and Roy Hibbert for Rajon Rondo and 1st this offseason.

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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by dgranger17 View Post
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    George Hill and Roy Hibbert for Rajon Rondo and 1st this offseason.
    That's out of the question. Roy Hibbert is more valueable to this team then Rondo and Lance combined would be.
    It's far more important to keep Hibbert after he opts out the following year then it is to keep Lance this year.
    It's not even close.

  29. #144
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    I think most of your dont realize that lance has inflated numbers here. When teams have to deal with a super star. A 7 foot 3 monster. 2 PFs that can shoot and post it makes everything easier on him. On another team he does not do close to what he does here. This is from a lance supporter.

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  31. #145
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    and if theres a team out there thats willing to overpay for Lance, then Lance will have a decision to make...somewhat similar to the choice Bosh, Wade and Lebron made and not unlike the choice David West just made...

    I will tell you right now...Lance will be able to get more money elsewhere than he will with the Pacers...Now how much more will certainly play into the decision...Paul George has given the team a discount...David West gave the team a discount....and Lance will have to do the same to remain...the only real question at this point is how much that discount will have to be...
    That's it, Bird will stick to his word for one week ago. If Lance wants to stay here he'll have to play for less and he just might, it depends on the offer. Those of you thinking that Bird will just find a way to pay him any amount need to come to realize that there is a very good chance that Lance won't be here next year. Larry will not overpay or give up on another core player just to keep Lance when he feels like this team will be fine if he has to look elsewhere, he basically said that last week.

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  33. #146
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    I am not endorsing any of these options, just spur of the moment thoughts is all.

    Option, Let Danny walk, sign Lance for 8 mil. Dump Copeland in a trade and keep the rest of the team intact. This would put us around 71mil and with 3 roster spots to fill (Granger, Copeland and Butler) but if the team can reach the finals the FO might go over the tax line.

    Option, Let Danny walk, trade Ian, Copeland for a Rookie contract (Not a Rookie) at the Center position and sign Lance to 8 mil.. With 3 roster spots to fill and approx. 3mil to use to stay under tax.

    Option, This will not be popular and I don't honestly know if I would do this come summer time, but If Danny continues to stay healthy, plays well and could get him resigned at around 6 mil., then we could sign Lance to 8 mil. Trade DWest and Copeland for a rookie PF contract(s) (Not a Rookie). We would have Scola as the starter and Rookie contract and Danny (if needed) playing the 4 off the bench. We would also be able to bring in about 4 mil in return on the DWest trade and stay under luxury tax, which would be a manageable number for a lot of teams this summer. DWest is getting old and it may not be such a bad thing to cut ties with him in order to keep Lance and Danny. May have to fill 1 to 2 roster spots though. Depends on number of players on the return of trade.

    Option, Let Danny walk, trade GHill for a cheap contract and sign Lance to 8 mil.

    I do want to say that I don't like GHill's contract, never have and I'm sure I never will. However, I would rather trade DWest if it's the right return and keep Hill and let our younger core continue to grow together, Roy Hibbert, Ian Mahinmi, Paul George, George Hill and Lance Stephenson. This creates a reasonable salary to manage for years to come (approx. 50 mil), allowing approx. 20 mil to be spent to round out the team.

    Also, I don't know that I would want to resign Danny for much as he has missed so much time and he could be a future thorn. I don't know what he is worth and what he would accept, but I do think 6 million is to much at this point. Time will tell, I guess.
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  34. #147
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    make all the starters reneogiate their deals for a million less so we can pay lance.

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  36. #148
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    That's out of the question. Roy Hibbert is more valueable to this team then Rondo and Lance combined would be.
    It's far more important to keep Hibbert after he opts out the following year then it is to keep Lance this year.
    It's not even close.
    Let's put it this way. Roy Hibbert is more important to this teams success than Paul and Lance combined.

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  38. #149
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    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    That's it, Bird will stick to his word for one week ago. If Lance wants to stay here he'll have to play for less and he just might, it depends on the offer. Those of you thinking that Bird will just find a way to pay him any amount need to come to realize that there is a very good chance that Lance won't be here next year. Larry will not overpay or give up on another core player just to keep Lance when he feels like this team will be fine if he has to look elsewhere, he basically said that last week.
    The thing is, if for some reason we can't keep Lance, Granger most likely will be back. So everything isn't going to fall apart if we lose him.

  39. #150

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    Granger won't be re-signed, obviously. So that helps. Scola's contract isn't guaranteed, so that's ~$4 million that can come off the books. Not ideal, but I'd rather say goodbye to Scola than Lance.

    Lance isn't going anywhere. Hill being here doesn't make it harder to keep him. Though it would be nice if Simon would be willing to pay a smidgen of the luxury tax.

    I dont see Scola going anywhere. Scola and Lance are a great duo. Not to mention that Scola is the b/u PF the Pacers have been looking for the last # of years.

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