Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 241

Thread: How do we keep Lance?

  1. #101
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    28
    Posts
    14,925

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What's up with Copeland? He couldn't even beat Butler or S. Hill for minutes at thee SF position
    He has cornered a very niche market in this league: A stretch power forward in a small forward's body who can't really guard either position effectively.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cdash For This Useful Post:


  3. #102
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,458

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He has cornered a very niche market in this league: A stretch power forward in a small forward's body who can't really guard either position effectively.
    IDK. I think he's cornered the market for garbage minutes.
    LeWade are going down.

  4. #103
    MIP for 2013-2014 season docpaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Noblesville, IN
    Posts
    1,570

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    IDK. I think he's cornered the market for garbage minutes.
    The day that Scola arrived here is the day that Copeland became a bench player.

    When they went after Copeland, they didn't suspect the possibility of getting Scola.

    It's hard to be too critical of this circumstance. When a player like Scola comes around, you go for it.

    One does wonder however, how a Copeland / Plumlee second team would have looked with some run.

    http://valleyofthesuns.com/2013/12/2...miles-plumlee/

    I will not think about this much however, if we win a national championship this year.

  5. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to docpaul For This Useful Post:


  6. #104

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The day that Scola arrived here is the day that Copeland became a bench player.

    When they went after Copeland, they didn't suspect the possibility of getting Scola.

    It's hard to be too critical of this circumstance. When a player like Scola comes around, you go for it.

    One does wonder however, how a Copeland / Plumlee second team would have looked with some run.

    http://valleyofthesuns.com/2013/12/2...miles-plumlee/

    I will not think about this much however, if we win a national championship this year.
    You're absolutely right...the only reason Copeland has sat is because Scola became available. And despite some nice rebounding numbers from Plumlee in Phoenix, he's also getting starter minutes which he wouldn't have gotten here. Copeland seems like a good guy, but strictly a one-trick pony...a poor man's Kyle Korver really...great 3 point shooter, not a great passer, and a liability on D (not that Scola is great, but he plays good team D).

    In a playoff scenario, I'd much prefer the court vison/savvy and international experience of a Scola. No matter which way you slice it, both Copeland and Plumlee were 2nd year players effectively. Scola can stabilize the second unit when the wheels start falling off, while C-P would just get pulled for the starters.

    I think the guys here who think Lance can be signed for just above the MLE, or even George Hill money, are going to be shocked. I really wouldn't be floored if some idiot GM gave him a max contract, but I think 10-12 mil isn't at all unrealistic given that an underachiever like Tyreke Evans got 10 mil/yr...and his potential and resume isn't that impressive. Desperate GMs do desperate things.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to kellogg For This Useful Post:


  8. #105
    Member Pacergeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    2,977

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    That really sucks Tyreke Evans got $10 million. He couldn't hold Lance's jock. How much is Kyrie expected to make? Lance is better than him as well
    David "And One" West

  9. #106
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    28
    Posts
    14,925

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How much is Kyrie expected to make? Lance is better than him as well
    The max. And let's not get carried away here--Kyrie is better than Lance.

  10. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to cdash For This Useful Post:


  11. #107
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    14,627

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    The idea of Paul and Lance playing side by side for the next decade plus.....my God. They are both the same age and both came into the league the same year. Their games complement each other PERFECTLY on the wings.

    It's just nuts to think that we got Paul and Lance in the same draft. How many franchises have ever had a draft where they net two players who are this great?

  12. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:


  13. #108
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    10,652

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Anyone that thinks Lance's people has a negotiating point at 10 mil, understand that that's more than Steph Curry. Lance's dad wouldn't take him over Curry. So all this "this single player makes a lot of money so Lance needs to make at least that," no, he doesn't. Yes, ankles and all. Let's not pretend Lance is 30 and far removed from having a ton of baggage.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:


  15. #109
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    22,943

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It might be a little much, but if we trade Cope and cut Sloan, we could afford a huge contract without hitting luxury taxes with big raises.
    Cutting a Minimum Salary Player like Sloan won't make a difference….we will still be under 13 Players even if we re-sign Lance. You'd still have to add a minimum Player Salary just to get to the roster limit.

    To be clear…..the Pacers may be under the LT with roughly $7 to 8 mil….but assuming not changes are made to the roster….we'd still have to sign 1 more Player BEYOND Lance. That means that in reality…the Pacers have about $6 to 7 mil to re-sign Lance with. Even if we end up dumping Copeland ( he's the most logical Player to trade ) and add OJ and the Warriors 2nd round pick….we'd then have to sign 3 Players ( Lance + 2 Minimum Vet Players ).
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  16. #110
    Big Daddy PaulGeorgeHill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Connersville Indiana
    Age
    27
    Posts
    920
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The idea of Paul and Lance playing side by side for the next decade plus.....my God. They are both the same age and both came into the league the same year. Their games complement each other PERFECTLY on the wings.

    It's just nuts to think that we got Paul and Lance in the same draft. How many franchises have ever had a draft where they net two players who are this great?
    Just sign lance for around $8-$10 mil a year and offer Granger the MLE and worry about getting under the tax next year before the deadline...I am a huge George Hill fan but a lineup of Lance George Granger West Hibbert is pretty sexy but maybe Larry can talk Hill into being what he was doing in San Antonio and being the 6th man like he was born to do and it might be possible that Hill prefers that role to starting point. Just a thought...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #111
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    22,943

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by DEEman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Good point. We might loose Scola, or Hill, etc, but we could get a cheap veteran much easier in the future when they can play with Hibbert, PG, Lance, West..
    Scola is already paid at a cheap contract ( since he was amnestied and the Rockets are essentially partially paying for his contract for us )…..Scola is one of those Players on a REALLY good contract given his production. I doubt that Scola gets traded ( not this season at least ) nor his salary simply not picked up for that reason.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CableKC For This Useful Post:


  19. #112
    Member Pacergeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    2,977

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The idea of Paul and Lance playing side by side for the next decade plus.....my God. They are both the same age and both came into the league the same year. Their games complement each other PERFECTLY on the wings.

    It's just nuts to think that we got Paul and Lance in the same draft. How many franchises have ever had a draft where they net two players who are this great?
    I'll take this a step further: How many teams picked the 2 best players out of the entire draft?
    David "And One" West

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Pacergeek For This Useful Post:


  21. #113
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    10,652

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Cutting a Minimum Salary Player like Sloan won't make a difference….we will still be under 13 Players even if we re-sign Lance. You'd still have to add a minimum Player Salary just to get to the roster limit.
    It's even more simple than that. Every open roster spot you have is a minimum cap hold. Not picking up Sloan and OJ saves us a total of like 400k extra space, probably not even that depending on where the cap winds up next year. 400k is nothing in comparison to the better offer we can give Lance, short of a really dumb offer from whomever else.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:


  23. #114
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    22,943

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There is no way Lance will get $10 million per year. Yes he's having a great stretch, but give him a few games and he'll slump again (like a lot of players) and I'd like to see people re-evaluate his contract.


    Granger's contract is coming off the books. If Granger is to remain a Pacer, he'll have to take a huge pay cut.

    I see Lance getting something around the MLE
    You are way more optimistic than most around here. He's played his way into a Starting Combo-Guard / Non-All Star level contract…..which is at a minimum $7+ mil a year contract. Add in that some Team ( if they are REALLY interested ) will likely overpay him…and you can see that his price tag will creep up to $9 mil a year.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  24. #115
    Member Pacergeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    2,977

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The max. And let's not get carried away here--Kyrie is better than Lance.
    Why is Kyrie better? I don't care about the premature Kyrie over-hyping by the media. On the contrary, Lance has been comically under hyped.
    David "And One" West

  25. #116
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    22,943

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That really sucks Tyreke Evans got $10 million. He couldn't hold Lance's jock. How much is Kyrie expected to make? Lance is better than him as well
    Watching the Pelican/Kings game yesterday night…..IMHO...Tyreke Evans is a good comparison of the type of Player that I see Lance as…..with a potential ceiling of being a Wade like Player. A Hybrid SG/SF that has enough ball handling skills, speed and strength to do an adequate impression of a PG while being quick enough to drive to the hoop but strong enough to finish in traffic. That is what I would not be surprised if there is a GM out there ( outside of Bird ) that would look at him like that and therefore offer him that level of a contract.

    BTW….Tyreke got a contract starting at $11 mil a year.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-24-2013 at 11:18 AM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  26. #117
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    10,652

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Tyreke's got his problems, but he can't hold Lance's jock? Seriously. Let's see what we think Lance is worth once his jumper dies for 2 weeks again. So contracts be dammed, in a vacuum, you'd take Lance over Tyreke? Hey, welcome to Pacers Digest I guess.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:


  28. #118
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    22,943

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's even more simple than that. Every open roster spot you have is a minimum cap hold. Not picking up Sloan and OJ saves us a total of like 400k extra space, probably not even that depending on where the cap winds up next year. 400k is nothing in comparison to the better offer we can give Lance, short of a really dumb offer from whomever else.
    So, it is better to waive Sloan ( who is owed $950k ) and find another PG at a cheaper price?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  29. #119
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    10,652

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So, it is better to waive Sloan ( who is owed $950k ) and find another PG at a cheaper price?
    Sure, like 200k better. But iff we're cutting it that tight Dinwiddie isn't doing his job.

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:


  31. #120
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,458

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The idea of Paul and Lance playing side by side for the next decade plus.....my God. They are both the same age and both came into the league the same year. Their games complement each other PERFECTLY on the wings.

    It's just nuts to think that we got Paul and Lance in the same draft. How many franchises have ever had a draft where they net two players who are this great?
    I'm not thanking this. That would be a disrespect to your post. The fact we drafted Paul and Lance in the same draft has to mean that one of the "basketball gods" we all talk about was born in French Lick.
    LeWade are going down.

  32. #121
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    22,943

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Just sign lance for around $8-$10 mil a year and offer Granger the MLE and worry about getting under the tax next year before the deadline...I am a huge George Hill fan but a lineup of Lance George Granger West Hibbert is pretty sexy but maybe Larry can talk Hill into being what he was doing in San Antonio and being the 6th man like he was born to do and it might be possible that Hill prefers that role to starting point. Just a thought...

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    IMHO…the sensible route to take is to dump Copeland BEFORE the February 20th 2014 Trade Deadline NOT dump his contract AFTER the 2014-2015 Offseason while taking a "just re-sign Lance and Granger and then sort it out later" approach. I don't think that it is as easy as many of you think to simple shed Expiring Contracts WITHOUT getting back any Salary beyond the 2014-2015 season. This makes negotiations worse ESPECIALLY if Teams know that we have to dump Salary just to avoid being over the LT…something that ALL Teams know that the Simon's won't do. You don't think that opposing Teams will ask for the "Moon and Stars" when they know that you have no choice but to dump someone's Salary and get back LITERALLY nothing?

    How do you think that Teams dump Expiring Contracts for nothing? They do it by giving up A LOT of assets. What assets do you think that we have now to get Teams to take on Copeland or even Scola AFTER the Team decides to re-sign Lance and Granger ( which I can see as laughable given our Salary Cap / LT situation )? OJ, Solo and future 1st round picks?

    Given that the majority of the Salary Cap will be devoted to the Starting Lineup…it is imperative that the Team has a source of cheap talent that can improve over time. Where does such talent come from? Look at our roster and you can figure it out……through the Draft. This does not mean that I do not think that OJ, Solo or any of the two 2nd round picks are not expendable if it meant that we can dump Copeland's contract…..it means that my preference is to keep either OJ or Solo as a future 8th/9th Man wing that can develop over time.

    The choice is clear….at this point…shed Copeland's Contract at the cost of OJ or any of the two 2nd round picks that the Pacers have in the 2014-2015 draft by this season's Trade Deadline. AT WORST……include Solo if you have to.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  33. #122
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,458

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Tyreke's got his problems, but he can't hold Lance's jock? Seriously. Let's see what we think Lance is worth once his jumper dies for 2 weeks again. So contracts be dammed, in a vacuum, you'd take Lance over Tyreke? Hey, welcome to Pacers Digest I guess.
    Lance has the highest FG% and is right there with Paul and GHill on 3%. He's 2nd in ppg, 2nd in rebounds, 1st in assists by some distance. This is happening on a team with the BEST record in the NBA. A team that is probably the best team in the East. Lance is just getting started and, at least for this year, I'd be more worried about Danny Granger getting healthy than Lance Stephenson's shot vanishing.
    LeWade are going down.

  34. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  35. #123
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    22,943

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by kellogg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think the guys here who think Lance can be signed for just above the MLE, or even George Hill money, are going to be shocked. I really wouldn't be floored if some idiot GM gave him a max contract, but I think 10-12 mil isn't at all unrealistic given that an underachiever like Tyreke Evans got 10 mil/yr...and his potential and resume isn't that impressive. Desperate GMs do desperate things.
    +1

    I go back to what I said…..we are fanboys that have watched Lance all season long. We know what he's capable of doing ( Good Lance ) and what he is not capable of doing ( Bad Lance ). Would it be a stretch for some GM out there that is desperate or even looking to make a major move look at Lance as Tyreke ( at worst ) or even Wade ( at best ) ESPECIALLY for a Player that has only started since the 2012-2013 season? Some Team will gamble that he hasn't reached his potential yet and overpay him at the tune of $9 to 10+ mil a year.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CableKC For This Useful Post:


  37. #124
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    32
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Scola or not I don't think Cope gets playing time the guy is garbage Vogel knows better than playing him.

  38. #125
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    32
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: How do we keep Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He has cornered a very niche market in this league: A stretch power forward in a small forward's body who can't really guard either position effectively.
    I don't think you have seen his garbage minute stats the guy is amazing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •