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Thread: BUMPED: Confidence in Plumlee

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    Default BUMPED: Confidence in Plumlee

    When the Pacers first drafted Plumlee, I was surprised. Bird and Pacer management then said he would be similar to Jeff Foster. I was not real familiar with Plumlee, so I trusted Pacer management and felt better about the pick.

    As the season has progressed, my confidence in Plumee has dropped considerably until last night. You may ask "what happened last night to encourage me? Plumlee only played a few minutes and was like 0-3 from the floor." It is something Quinn Buckner said. He said that Foster didn't play much his rookie season either. That got me thinking, so I looked up the stats and compared them.

    Here is what I found:

    Foster played 19 games, averaged 4.5 minutes per game. He shot 56% from the floor, 75% from the line and averaged 2.3 points, 1.7 rebounds, 0.3 assists, 0.3 steals, 0.1 blocks and 0.1 turnovers.

    Plumlee up to this point has played 11 games and averages 3.7 minutes per game. He is shooting 13% from the floor, 75% from the line and is averaging 0.6 points, 1.5 rebounds, 0.2 assists, 0.0 steals, 0.2 blocks and 0.2 turnovers.

    I know the 13% shooting sucks, but the other stats are comparable. Maybe Plumlee CAN become a player similar to Foster.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    I'm hoping he blows up and makes all of the autographed rookie cards that I've bought on Ebay a great investment. Larry has earned the benefit of the doubt in my opinion, and i'm going to give it to him.
    "Can you take away every single day that we have given to another false prophet" -- Corey Taylor

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    You have much more faith than me. Larry was trolling with that parting gift.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    This is just hillarious. I mean who was drafted behind Plumlee that is lighting the world on fire? The guy is a rookie big, and it is like some of you were waiting for a reason to hate him since day 1. What is wrong with letting a rookie develop?

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I mean who was drafted behind Plumlee that is lighting the world on fire?
    Orlando Johnson

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    I want to have faith in this pick as well. What I find wierd about Plum is that he backs off every play like it is an ISO each time. Like he is waiting for the ball handler to drive, pull his man off of him, and dish for an easy layup. Watch the video. He is the strong side post position guy on a lot of those plays but he intentionally moves behind his defender even to the point of going behind the backboard. He did this even when it was obvious they were going to try to get him the ball. This also has the added, unfortunate effect of leaving him in bad rebounding position. I don't know if that was part of the scheme for him, but I wanted to see him get the ball and he kept hiding from it.

    This is just my take away from the last two games so not something I want to completely judge him off of, but it didn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

    Post your man up, Miles!

    On a semi-related note, there was a lot of talk a while back of Foster coming in and having a position in the organization. Did he ever do that? I'd feel a lot better about Foster 2.0 if Foster 1.0 was there to guide him along the way.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Took forever and a day to see what Bird saw in Lance, maybe there is still hope for this guy.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by MnvrChvy View Post
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    On a semi-related note, there was a lot of talk a while back of Foster coming in and having a position in the organization. Did he ever do that? I'd feel a lot better about Foster 2.0 if Foster 1.0 was there to guide him along the way.
    I don't know about current day, but Jeff was absolutely in the war room during the draft. Somebody, Wells, Pritchard, Benner, I can't remember who, posted a shot and Jeff was off to the side. I'd dig it up if it mattered that much.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee


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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I don't know about current day, but Jeff was absolutely in the war room during the draft. Somebody, Wells, Pritchard, Benner, I can't remember who, posted a shot and Jeff was off to the side. I'd dig it up if it mattered that much.
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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    This is just hillarious. I mean who was drafted behind Plumlee that is lighting the world on fire? The guy is a rookie big, and it is like some of you were waiting for a reason to hate him since day 1. What is wrong with letting a rookie develop?

    You're willing to give Plumlee the benefit of the doubt by giving him time to develop, but not any other player drafted after Plumlee. Personally, I see Teague, Moultrie, Ezeli, and Taylor all having a better career than Plumlee. It will be interesting to review this in say 2 years.

    In 2 years, if PJIII is developing nicely, I'll be extremely disappointed, but understand his health was a issue not to draft him. Then if you are taking a chance on drafting Plumlee with his credentials, why not take a chance on PJIII? You are only talking about 1 mil contracts for 2 years for either one. Some times you roll the dice and take a chance.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Only a couple of other players have played less minutes this season than Plumlee. I concentrated on watching Plumlee again in last nights game. Believe me I was wanting to see positive things with his play, but didn't. With the leads the Pacers had in last night and the night b4 games, I was hoping Vogel would put Plumlee in the game with 8 min to play to see if he could get comfortable and show something. I truly want Plumlee to succeed, but I just don't believe he was the BPA when Bird picked.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    This off-season (draft & signings) made one thing clear. The FO felt that our 2nd unit lacked size and athleticism. Miles, Ian and GG were brought in for this very reason, in my opinion.

    Personally, I like what I saw from Miles in the Summer League. So, I will wait until he gets some meaningful minutes before I judge him.

    The player that I like most out of the bunch picked after Miles and OJ is definitely Tornike Shengelia. I feel that he will have a good career in the NBA. I definitely see a rotational player in him. Even a borderline (or not) starter. But he is not a Center or a guard. He is a Small Forward that is not a big threat from 3 as of yet (his jump shot can improve but it's kinda shaky at the moment).
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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Only a couple of other players have played less minutes this season than Plumlee.
    There haven't been a lot of teams that have been better than us this season either
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You're willing to give Plumlee the benefit of the doubt by giving him time to develop, but not any other player drafted after Plumlee. Personally, I see Teague, Moultrie, Ezeli, and Taylor all having a better career than Plumlee. It will be interesting to review this in say 2 years.

    In 2 years, if PJIII is developing nicely, I'll be extremely disappointed, but understand his health was a issue not to draft him. Then if you are taking a chance on drafting Plumlee with his credentials, why not take a chance on PJIII? You are only talking about 1 mil contracts for 2 years for either one. Some times you roll the dice and take a chance.
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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    I've actually watched a few games Miles had with the Mad Ants and he tore it up in the D-league. Actually had one of the nicer alley oop dunks I've seen (looked like he was riding a bicycle the way he was kicking his legs).

    He is raw as hell which to me is a couple of things both of which are surprising and frankly a little disappointing.

    1. Coming out of Duke I would have thought that he would at least have a very basic fundamental grip on the basics of basketball. Obviously I don't watch college but I always was told Duke had one of the better programs.

    2. At his age he doesn't have much time to match up his development with his athletic ability. In other words the reason he was drafted (huge leaping ability and agility) are probably not going to be there for him when he actually is ready to play so that begs the question if he will be able to translate any skill into his position.

    Now this doesn't mean I don't think he can develop but I'm just a little surprised he is not further along than he is.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You're willing to give Plumlee the benefit of the doubt by giving him time to develop, but not any other player drafted after Plumlee. Personally, I see Teague, Moultrie, Ezeli, and Taylor all having a better career than Plumlee. It will be interesting to review this in say 2 years.

    In 2 years, if PJIII is developing nicely, I'll be extremely disappointed, but understand his health was a issue not to draft him. Then if you are taking a chance on drafting Plumlee with his credentials, why not take a chance on PJIII? You are only talking about 1 mil contracts for 2 years for either one. Some times you roll the dice and take a chance.
    And a lot of you guys are only willing to give guys like Teague and PJIII a chance to develop and not Plumlee.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I don't know about current day, but Jeff was absolutely in the war room during the draft. Somebody, Wells, Pritchard, Benner, I can't remember who, posted a shot and Jeff was off to the side. I'd dig it up if it mattered that much.
    I remember someone also saying that Foster was quoted as really liking Plumlee.

    That 13% can be easily explained away as a statistical anomaly based on the small amount of minutes and shots he has taken.

    I will give Plumless until next year to prove he belongs in this league before I make any kind of judgement on him. If he can't find his way into some rotational minutes by next year, well at least this draft wasn't a total waste. Thank you Orlando.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    I'm still going to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I can see why people are upset with the pick. He wasn't that productive in college, and it's not like he's necessarily oozing upside as he's already 24.

    If we were just wanting someone who's athletic and can rebound off the bench, he may be our guy, but it'll be interesting to see if the other guys taken around him are able to evolve into anything other than that kind of "niche" player.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    This off-season (draft & signings) made one thing clear. The FO felt that our 2nd unit lacked size and athleticism. Miles, Ian and GG were brought in for this very reason, in my opinion.
    But it doesn't mean they achieved their goals.

    Mahinmi... goal achieved.

    Green... definately has athleticism, but has mostly been a disappointment so far.

    Plumlee... has size, but the size and supposed athleticism does nothing when you aren't playing in the game. The Pacers needed a better bench and Plumlee does nothing to improve it.

    When Bird drafted Plumlee, none of the other player acquistions had been made. How Bird thought Plumlee was going to help the Pacers this year is a mystery to me when knowing very well the Pacers bench HAD to be strengthened for the coming season. The drafting of Plumlee wasn't the answer to strengthen the bench for this season, maybe not for years to come if ever.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    1. Coming out of Duke I would have thought that he would at least have a very basic fundamental grip on the basics of basketball. Obviously I don't watch college but I always was told Duke had one of the better programs.
    I'm not well versed in College basketball either but from what I've heard Duke is a perimeter heavy program that mainly uses bigs as screeners / rebounders.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    But it doesn't mean they achieved their goals.

    Mahinmi... goal achieved.

    Green... definately has athleticism, but has mostly been a disappointment so far.

    Plumlee... has size, but the size and supposed athleticism does nothing when you aren't playing in the game. The Pacers needed a better bench and Plumlee does nothing to improve it.

    When Bird drafted Plumlee, none of the other player acquistions had been made. How Bird thought Plumlee was going to help the Pacers this year is a mystery to me when knowing very well the Pacers bench HAD to be strengthened for the coming season. The drafting of Plumlee wasn't the answer to strengthen the bench for this season, maybe not for years to come if ever.
    1) Green and Plumlee are certainly more athletic than the players we had on the bench last season. Whether this has helped or not is not the point. We can argue all day long which bench is better as a unit / players but it cannot be disputed which bench contains the better athletes.

    2) Strengthening the bench was indeed our major need. When Bird drafted Plumlee, Ian was not traded to us yet. We desperately needed a backup Center. Bird got us one because we couldn't be sure that we would get one in the off-season. Pritchard got us one as well
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I'm not well versed in College basketball either but from what I've heard Duke is a perimeter heavy program that mainly uses bigs as screeners / rebounders.
    Duke does not have a history of producing good NBA talent despite their excellence at the college level, but that is not all that uncommon. Just look at Indiana, how many good NBA players has it produced over the course of the past 40 years? Maybe 3 to 5, and dozens of mediocre talent despite all of that success at the college level. I am sure Kansas is not much different. The style of play in the NBA is just drastically different, and it benefits players who are more athletic and better 1v1.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    And a lot of you guys are only willing to give guys like Teague and PJIII a chance to develop and not Plumlee.
    Maybe they see more potential in them than Plumlee.

    Like others, what bothers me is Plumlee is 24 1/2 years old, and he did little playing in a great program like Duke. He's already had 67 games to show something, and he's had more PT in the last 2 blowout games than good portions of the season with little to show for it. He's played 41 min in 11 games this season. I don't want to hear it's due to the Pacers are the 7th best team or there hasn't been that many opportunities to play him. Juice has played over 10 times the minutes as Plumlee as a 2nd round pick on the same team. The reason that Plumlee isn't playing is, b/c he can't. Even the Pacers announcers recently stated the Pacers couldn't determine what they had in Plumlee. He hadn't been able to show them much. At his age how much longer can you wait to get a productive payback on drafting him? The name Magnum Rolle come to mind with all his athleticism when I think of Plumlee. The only difference might be one has a guaranteed contract and the other didn't.

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    Default Re: Confidence in Plumlee

    The depth on the wings is a little different than the depth in the middle. Do you envision Miles lasting longer than 10 seasons in the NBA? If the answer is "no" then his age is moot.

    The thing that was highly noticeable last night was his sheer size. He's much larger than what he was at Duke. It looks like he's put on a pretty good amount of mass.

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