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When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

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  • #46
    Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Glad to see some valuable responses here this morning.

    I wanted to comment on Hicks earlier post, because he brought up something very valid.

    One of the major reasons why END of game officiating needs to be at the very least up to par with the rest of the game, is because quite frankly it is do or die time.

    A team can overcome a poor call in the first 40 minutes of a game, or even the first 46 or so minutes of a game, much more easily than they can in the last 1-2 minutes.

    Now, I am not calling for a double standard. A foul should be a foul whenever there is, well... A foul! But in particular, when you have a game that is close in the waning moments (again: NOT factoring in *why* it's close) - a missed call or a blatantly blown call has an insurmountable, often times game-ending quality to it. There simply is NO time left for the team on the short end of the stick to attempt to compensate for the officials doing their job poorly.

    Phree Refill made a great recent example of this. In the Detroit loss, Kyle Singler clearly committed a 5 second violation on that late inbounds pass. The Pacers had been trying to scratch and claw their way into that game, and they HAD forced a turnover with great coverage on the play. However, the referee gave Singler nearly a complete additional second to inbound the ball, and our team was not rewarded with a chance to get a needed basket. Had that happened in the second quarter, yes I would be frustrated. But the fact that it happened with very little time remaining and the Pacers desperately needing to force a turnover is simply INFURIATING.

    I fully realize that in the grand scheme of things this makes little difference. As Hicks said, you just need to come to accept stuff like this and move on, as fans there is nothing we can actually DO about it.

    My reason for posting this thread and questioning all this is just to figure out why so many fans take a negative attitude towards fans like myself and others who question the legitimacy of late-game officiating and its impact on a loss. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated that our team put themselves in a position to lose a game based on a referee, but looking at things in the long term, shouldn't we be more upset about the fact that we had a chance to win a game and it was nullified by something outside our control?

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
      How is it not a foul, even if he's not pushing? (I don't expect that call btw) I was thinking about it last night, when was the last time you saw a defender put his hands on a jumpshooter, and not get the foul call, excluding last night? It rarely ever happens, because the defenders hands aren't even supposed to touch them, regardless if they were pushing or not.
      That's what I am thinking....if the rule books say that you cannot touch the shooter PERIOD....it's irrelevant if PG24 was moving forward or not. This isnt a "Reggie Kick his legs out as he is jumping" situation where the Shooter is intentionally creating contact.

      At this point....I am just looking at this as a REALLY BAD No-Call by the Ref that should have been watching from the angle that we see from that picture. There is no way to know whether touching the Player could alter how the Player shoots the ball.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

        For those of you who are upset at the no call... We're you as upset Reggio got away with such a blatant push of Jordan to hit that epic game winner?? I still feel like this just upset b/c you perceive that we got jipped when refs have habitually allowed the players "to play" as opposed to determine the outcome with calling a foul...
        Abba Zaba, your my only friend.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

          Originally posted by TMJ31 View Post
          Glad to see some valuable responses here this morning.

          I wanted to comment on Hicks earlier post, because he brought up something very valid.

          One of the major reasons why END of game officiating needs to be at the very least up to par with the rest of the game, is because quite frankly it is do or die time.

          A team can overcome a poor call in the first 40 minutes of a game, or even the first 46 or so minutes of a game, much more easily than they can in the last 1-2 minutes.

          Now, I am not calling for a double standard. A foul should be a foul whenever there is, well... A foul! But in particular, when you have a game that is close in the waning moments (again: NOT factoring in *why* it's close) - a missed call or a blatantly blown call has an insurmountable, often times game-ending quality to it. There simply is NO time left for the team on the short end of the stick to attempt to compensate for the officials doing their job poorly.

          Phree Refill made a great recent example of this. In the Detroit loss, Kyle Singler clearly committed a 5 second violation on that late inbounds pass. The Pacers had been trying to scratch and claw their way into that game, and they HAD forced a turnover with great coverage on the play. However, the referee gave Singler nearly a complete additional second to inbound the ball, and our team was not rewarded with a chance to get a needed basket. Had that happened in the second quarter, yes I would be frustrated. But the fact that it happened with very little time remaining and the Pacers desperately needing to force a turnover is simply INFURIATING.

          I fully realize that in the grand scheme of things this makes little difference. As Hicks said, you just need to come to accept stuff like this and move on, as fans there is nothing we can actually DO about it.

          My reason for posting this thread and questioning all this is just to figure out why so many fans take a negative attitude towards fans like myself and others who question the legitimacy of late-game officiating and its impact on a loss. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated that our team put themselves in a position to lose a game based on a referee, but looking at things in the long term, shouldn't we be more upset about the fact that we had a chance to win a game and it was nullified by something outside our control?
          The only thing that I have learned from all this is that PG24 is not at the point in his career where he gets the benefit of the doubt or the close "Superstar" attention when it comes to calls like that from the Refs. I guarantee you that LeDecision would have gotten that foul call.

          This is one of those times where I can legitimately say that the Refs screwed up.
          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

            I don't think Lebron would have gotten that call.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

              The officiating didn't necessarily cost us the game, we contributed a lot in blowing our lead.

              That last play without a doubt cost us the chance to play another 5 minutes. LeBron, Durant not getting that same call? Come on man. 2 Hands on a shooters waist? You can see the way Paul landed that he was pushed at least a little bit.
              "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG" - Carol "The Walking Dead"

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                The defensive holding call was in response to Harrison getting man handled. The NFL wants their offensive players to score. Just like the NBA wants their players to score. Just like the MLB wanted their home run hitters to score, therefore they turned a blind eye.

                Lebron James winning makes more money. It is a more sellable product. It isn't right. But it is what it is. If you don't like it watch high school bball.
                Sounds like the NBA will be in a world of trouble in 6-7 years when LeBron retires, if LeBron is the only way they can be a more sellable product.

                EDIT: And I do find it interesting that other leagues use offense, which applies to all teams and all players, to get people interested, while the NBA focuses on one, or just a handful, of players.
                Last edited by Since86; 12-19-2013, 02:52 PM.
                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                  Originally posted by bballpacen View Post
                  For those of you who are upset at the no call... We're you as upset Reggio got away with such a blatant push of Jordan to hit that epic game winner?? I still feel like this just upset b/c you perceive that we got jipped when refs have habitually allowed the players "to play" as opposed to determine the outcome with calling a foul...
                  I will accept that I have a double standard here. You are right...that Reggie call should have been called a foul...just like many of the Reggie "kick my leg out" fouls that he probably should have gotten when he did that.

                  I guess my question to you is...where do we draw the line when it comes to letting the Players determine the outcome of the game?

                  For myself...I can look at it from situation to situation. When a shooter is in the air like that where he is in his shooting motion....there is no way for us to know or tell whether the contact that PG24 felt from behind could have altered his shot enough to affect the outcome of the shot. Maybe LeDecision barely touched him and it would have made no difference....maybe he grabbed him enough where it did make a difference.

                  Again, I go back to what I think this is....it was a REALLY BAD no-call on the part of the Refs.
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                    Originally posted by TMJ31 View Post
                    Glad to see some valuable responses here this morning.

                    I wanted to comment on Hicks earlier post, because he brought up something very valid.

                    One of the major reasons why END of game officiating needs to be at the very least up to par with the rest of the game, is because quite frankly it is do or die time.

                    A team can overcome a poor call in the first 40 minutes of a game, or even the first 46 or so minutes of a game, much more easily than they can in the last 1-2 minutes.

                    Now, I am not calling for a double standard. A foul should be a foul whenever there is, well... A foul! But in particular, when you have a game that is close in the waning moments (again: NOT factoring in *why* it's close) - a missed call or a blatantly blown call has an insurmountable, often times game-ending quality to it. There simply is NO time left for the team on the short end of the stick to attempt to compensate for the officials doing their job poorly.

                    Phree Refill made a great recent example of this. In the Detroit loss, Kyle Singler clearly committed a 5 second violation on that late inbounds pass. The Pacers had been trying to scratch and claw their way into that game, and they HAD forced a turnover with great coverage on the play. However, the referee gave Singler nearly a complete additional second to inbound the ball, and our team was not rewarded with a chance to get a needed basket. Had that happened in the second quarter, yes I would be frustrated. But the fact that it happened with very little time remaining and the Pacers desperately needing to force a turnover is simply INFURIATING.

                    I fully realize that in the grand scheme of things this makes little difference. As Hicks said, you just need to come to accept stuff like this and move on, as fans there is nothing we can actually DO about it.

                    My reason for posting this thread and questioning all this is just to figure out why so many fans take a negative attitude towards fans like myself and others who question the legitimacy of late-game officiating and its impact on a loss. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated that our team put themselves in a position to lose a game based on a referee, but looking at things in the long term, shouldn't we be more upset about the fact that we had a chance to win a game and it was nullified by something outside our control?
                    The simple and most absolute solution to this problem is to require the refs to review every play that is at the end of a quarter, and give the officials the right to call a foul that they missed. You could either wipe away a game winner because of a blatant push off just prior to the shot. Or they could award Free Throws on fouls. This is the most absolute and fair way to handle the situation. So 4 times a game they must go over and look at the final play of the quarter, and it doesn't impact the flow of game or the TV broadcast.
                    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                      Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                      For myself...I can look at it from situation to situation. When a shooter is in the air like that where he is in his shooting motion....there is no way for us to know or tell whether the contact that PG24 felt from behind could have altered his shot enough to affect the outcome of the shot. Maybe LeDecision barely touched him and it would have made no difference....maybe he grabbed him enough where it did make a difference.

                      Yep. Rules are objective guidelines to make everyone aware of what is and isn't acceptable. Not calling fouls by those rules are just as impactful as calling fouls that aren't actual fouls. If players, and only players, should decide games, then there is no need for referees.
                      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                        Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                        I will accept that I have a double standard here. You are right...that Reggie call should have been called a foul...just like many of the Reggie "kick my leg out" fouls that he probably should have gotten when he did that.

                        I guess my question to you is...where do we draw the line when it comes to letting the Players determine the outcome of the game?

                        For myself...I can look at it from situation to situation. When a shooter is in the air like that where he is in his shooting motion....there is no way for us to know or tell whether the contact that PG24 felt from behind could have altered his shot enough to affect the outcome of the shot. Maybe LeDecision barely touched him and it would have made no difference....maybe he grabbed him enough where it did make a difference.

                        Again, I go back to what I think this is....it was a REALLY BAD no-call on the part of the Refs.
                        I don't know if there is necessarily an arbitrary line in the sand if you will... I believe it is case by case... But certainly give some leeway as long as it is applied fairly...
                        Abba Zaba, your my only friend.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                          Originally posted by bballpacen View Post
                          But certainly give some leeway as long as it is applied fairly...
                          Aren't rules designed to ensure calls being applied fairly?
                          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                            Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                            The simple and most absolute solution to this problem is to require the refs to review every play that is at the end of a quarter, and give the officials the right to call a foul that they missed. You could either wipe away a game winner because of a blatant push off just prior to the shot. Or they could award Free Throws on fouls. This is the most absolute and fair way to handle the situation. So 4 times a game they must go over and look at the final play of the quarter, and it doesn't impact the flow of game or the TV broadcast.

                            This is a really great idea. I honestly think that it could do a lot of good.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                              Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                              Aren't rules designed to ensure calls being applied fairly?
                              In theory... but not in application...
                              Abba Zaba, your my only friend.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

                                Originally posted by TMJ31 View Post
                                This is a really great idea. I honestly think that it could do a lot of good.
                                It would go a long way towards adding parity in the league because certain players would no longer get away with fouls at the end of the game.
                                You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                                Comment

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