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Thread: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    TMJ, I too am pissed off about the officials. They officiate our games vs Miami completely different than the other 30 teams. One call last night I have never seen before, was when Wade scored, and a foul was called AFTER the ball dropped through the hoop and bounced on the ground
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Roy Hibbert plays the same way every single game defensively. Only vs Miami he gets in foul trouble.....
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I would find it very hard to believe you haven't heard umpires excoriated for expanding strike zones for certain pitchers and narrowing them for certain hitters.
    Not really. I usually hear them talking about how specific umpires have smaller or larger strike zones than "normal" umps, but I've never heard that Lou Darvish (for example) gets the benefit of the doubt just for stepping on the mound.
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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Roy Hibbert plays the same way every single game defensively. Only vs Miami he gets in foul trouble.....
    Absolutely not. You can clearly see him swinging his arms down on the replays of at least 2 of the fouls called last night. He made his reputation by NOT doing that - if he's getting sloppy it's time to call them.
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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Why is Miami allowed to habitually foul on defense?
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?


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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    A couple things. First, regarding last night, I didn't think it was a foul. Secondly, I don't think I have ever seen a single Pacers fan acknowledge that the Pacers were the beneficiaries of a lot of bad calls. They just brush it off as if it was the correct call, when if it had gone the other way, you would be furious.


    Lastly, if you post once or twice a season blaming the officials for a loss, ok, I still disagree with you but at least you are being reasonable. When it's 10,20,30 games every year, I have a very hard time taking you seriously because you clearly have a blatant bias. The referees are once again not out to get the Pacers. If anything, the Pacers get the Benefit of the doubt a lot more than most because they are considered elite.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Why is Miami allowed to habitually foul on defense?
    They aren't aloud to habitually foul on defense.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Absolutely not. You can clearly see him swinging his arms down on the replays of at least 2 of the fouls called last night. He made his reputation by NOT doing that - if he's getting sloppy it's time to call them.
    My point was that only vs Miami does Roy have to worry about fouls. On his fourth or fifth foul, where Bosh took it to him on an I so play, there was a foul called. If instead of Bosh and Miami, this was Cody Zellar and Charlotte, ZERO percent chance a fourth foul is called
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    A couple things. First, regarding last night, I didn't think it was a foul. Secondly, I don't think I have ever seen a single Pacers fan acknowledge that the Pacers were the beneficiaries of a lot of bad calls. They just brush it off as if it was the correct call, when if it had gone the other way, you would be furious.


    Lastly, if you post once or twice a season blaming the officials for a loss, ok, I still disagree with you but at least you are being reasonable. When it's 10,20,30 games every year, I have a very hard time taking you seriously because you clearly have a blatant bias. The referees are once again not out to get the Pacers. If anything, the Pacers get the Benefit of the doubt a lot more than most because they are considered elite.
    100% agree with this some guys just love to complaint about the referees not matter what.

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    My point was that only vs Miami does Roy have to worry about fouls. On his fourth or fifth foul, where Bosh took it to him on an I so play, there was a foul called. If instead of Bosh and Miami, this was Cody Zellar and Charlotte, ZERO percent chance a fourth foul is called
    Roy smacked the crap out of Bosh that was a foul on anybody it was the right call.

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    They aren't aloud to habitually foul on defense.


    These kinds of questions need to stop, please

    All they do is trap and slap. Also pushing from the back is an OK foul as long as the player is wearing a Heat uniform. If Lance were to shove a player in the back, you bet your *** he gets a technical/flagrant
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Have you watched Miami play defense? All they do is trap and slap. Also pushing from the back is an OK foul as long as the player is wearing a Heat uniform. If Lance were to shove a player in the back, you bet your *** he gets a technical/flagrant
    Just no. Yes, they trap, that doesn't mean they slap. I need to ask you a question, when is the last time that you criticized a call that benefited the Pacers? Lance would not get a technical or flagrant if he did what LeBron did.
    Yes, I have watched Miami play probably 6 full games this season not against the Pacers.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    A question I have is how can the Pacers burn them when they get RIGHT UP into the face of a perimeter player defensively? I feel like normally when defenders do that they're begging to get called for a foul. Doesn't the offensive player need to swing through their arms at that point or something? Hell, wouldn't flopping theoretically get the call, too, much as I hate that?

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    A question I have is how can the Pacers burn them when they get RIGHT UP into the face of a perimeter player defensively? I feel like normally when defenders do that they're begging to get called for a foul. Doesn't the offensive player need to swing through their arms at that point or something? Hell, wouldn't flopping theoretically get the call, too, much as I hate that?
    Yes, I feel a guy like Lance is more prone to do something like that, but he never had a chance to really handle the ball in late game situations.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Roy had a bad game with his verticality last night. The 4th and 5th fouls were the correct calls, he didn't jump straight up.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    Just no. Yes, they trap, that doesn't mean they slap. I need to ask you a question, when is the last time that you criticized a call that benefited the Pacers? Lance would not get a technical or flagrant if he did what LeBron did.
    Yes, I have watched Miami play probably 6 full games this season not against the Pacers.
    There are bad calls in every game. I believe that they typically cancel each other out. The one team I watch that is always the beneficiary is Miami. We were in control of the game in the first half, and I swear the officials got them back in the game. Referees gave Miami momentum. It isn't so much the fouls called against Indiana, but the non-foul when they are slapping the **** out of us. Why don't the other 30 NBA teams play defense like Miami's overly aggressive style? Because the officials call fouls on the other teams
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    A question I have is how can the Pacers burn them when they get RIGHT UP into the face of a perimeter player defensively? I feel like normally when defenders do that they're begging to get called for a foul. Doesn't the offensive player need to swing through their arms at that point or something? Hell, wouldn't flopping theoretically get the call, too, much as I hate that?
    People say our offense was stagnant last night and that we couldn't make shots. How are we supposed to run an offense when whomever has the ball is being mugged?
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Not really. I usually hear them talking about how specific umpires have smaller or larger strike zones than "normal" umps, but I've never heard that Lou Darvish (for example) gets the benefit of the doubt just for stepping on the mound.
    I lived in Atlanta in the early 90s and it was accepted that Maddux and Glavine had a much wider strike zone than other pitchers.

    I stopped watching baseball in '94 and couldn't tell you who gets this advantage now (nor who Lou Darvish is).

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    The defensive holding call was in response to Harrison getting man handled. The NFL wants their offensive players to score. Just like the NBA wants their players to score. Just like the MLB wanted their home run hitters to score, therefore they turned a blind eye.

    Lebron James winning makes more money. It is a more sellable product. It isn't right. But it is what it is. If you don't like it watch high school bball.

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Glad to see some valuable responses here this morning.

    I wanted to comment on Hicks earlier post, because he brought up something very valid.

    One of the major reasons why END of game officiating needs to be at the very least up to par with the rest of the game, is because quite frankly it is do or die time.

    A team can overcome a poor call in the first 40 minutes of a game, or even the first 46 or so minutes of a game, much more easily than they can in the last 1-2 minutes.

    Now, I am not calling for a double standard. A foul should be a foul whenever there is, well... A foul! But in particular, when you have a game that is close in the waning moments (again: NOT factoring in *why* it's close) - a missed call or a blatantly blown call has an insurmountable, often times game-ending quality to it. There simply is NO time left for the team on the short end of the stick to attempt to compensate for the officials doing their job poorly.

    Phree Refill made a great recent example of this. In the Detroit loss, Kyle Singler clearly committed a 5 second violation on that late inbounds pass. The Pacers had been trying to scratch and claw their way into that game, and they HAD forced a turnover with great coverage on the play. However, the referee gave Singler nearly a complete additional second to inbound the ball, and our team was not rewarded with a chance to get a needed basket. Had that happened in the second quarter, yes I would be frustrated. But the fact that it happened with very little time remaining and the Pacers desperately needing to force a turnover is simply INFURIATING.

    I fully realize that in the grand scheme of things this makes little difference. As Hicks said, you just need to come to accept stuff like this and move on, as fans there is nothing we can actually DO about it.

    My reason for posting this thread and questioning all this is just to figure out why so many fans take a negative attitude towards fans like myself and others who question the legitimacy of late-game officiating and its impact on a loss. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated that our team put themselves in a position to lose a game based on a referee, but looking at things in the long term, shouldn't we be more upset about the fact that we had a chance to win a game and it was nullified by something outside our control?

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How is it not a foul, even if he's not pushing? (I don't expect that call btw) I was thinking about it last night, when was the last time you saw a defender put his hands on a jumpshooter, and not get the foul call, excluding last night? It rarely ever happens, because the defenders hands aren't even supposed to touch them, regardless if they were pushing or not.
    That's what I am thinking....if the rule books say that you cannot touch the shooter PERIOD....it's irrelevant if PG24 was moving forward or not. This isnt a "Reggie Kick his legs out as he is jumping" situation where the Shooter is intentionally creating contact.

    At this point....I am just looking at this as a REALLY BAD No-Call by the Ref that should have been watching from the angle that we see from that picture. There is no way to know whether touching the Player could alter how the Player shoots the ball.
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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    For those of you who are upset at the no call... We're you as upset Reggio got away with such a blatant push of Jordan to hit that epic game winner?? I still feel like this just upset b/c you perceive that we got jipped when refs have habitually allowed the players "to play" as opposed to determine the outcome with calling a foul...

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    Glad to see some valuable responses here this morning.

    I wanted to comment on Hicks earlier post, because he brought up something very valid.

    One of the major reasons why END of game officiating needs to be at the very least up to par with the rest of the game, is because quite frankly it is do or die time.

    A team can overcome a poor call in the first 40 minutes of a game, or even the first 46 or so minutes of a game, much more easily than they can in the last 1-2 minutes.

    Now, I am not calling for a double standard. A foul should be a foul whenever there is, well... A foul! But in particular, when you have a game that is close in the waning moments (again: NOT factoring in *why* it's close) - a missed call or a blatantly blown call has an insurmountable, often times game-ending quality to it. There simply is NO time left for the team on the short end of the stick to attempt to compensate for the officials doing their job poorly.

    Phree Refill made a great recent example of this. In the Detroit loss, Kyle Singler clearly committed a 5 second violation on that late inbounds pass. The Pacers had been trying to scratch and claw their way into that game, and they HAD forced a turnover with great coverage on the play. However, the referee gave Singler nearly a complete additional second to inbound the ball, and our team was not rewarded with a chance to get a needed basket. Had that happened in the second quarter, yes I would be frustrated. But the fact that it happened with very little time remaining and the Pacers desperately needing to force a turnover is simply INFURIATING.

    I fully realize that in the grand scheme of things this makes little difference. As Hicks said, you just need to come to accept stuff like this and move on, as fans there is nothing we can actually DO about it.

    My reason for posting this thread and questioning all this is just to figure out why so many fans take a negative attitude towards fans like myself and others who question the legitimacy of late-game officiating and its impact on a loss. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated that our team put themselves in a position to lose a game based on a referee, but looking at things in the long term, shouldn't we be more upset about the fact that we had a chance to win a game and it was nullified by something outside our control?
    The only thing that I have learned from all this is that PG24 is not at the point in his career where he gets the benefit of the doubt or the close "Superstar" attention when it comes to calls like that from the Refs. I guarantee you that LeDecision would have gotten that foul call.

    This is one of those times where I can legitimately say that the Refs screwed up.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: When is it OK for fans to be critical of end-game officiating?

    I don't think Lebron would have gotten that call.

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