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Thread: George Hill problem ?

  1. #126

    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    The thing with the Hill defense team is that the general argument is something like "It's not his fault he's not producing." Well, regardless of who is at fault, he is a disappointment right now. Not the other 4 starters, not the head coach. You can blame other people for his struggles, but it comes down to this: you may like that square peg, but if you're trying to fit it into a round hole it won't work.

    Personally, I think he needs to play off the ball more. But if we (still) don't have a distributing point guard on the roster, it's hard to say Vogel should do anything different. I like Hill and I do think we can win with him, but he has to show that he is improving. I don't mind the lack of scoring and assisting, but the late game decision making (and foul shooting) has to get better.

  2. #127
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    George Hill does fine at PG. I just believe he's better used off the ball against Miami. When Lance is playing well he should probably be the main ball handler against their pressure defense. He has the best matchup going against Wade or Allen. Neither of them can really bother Lance from getting around the floor or disrupt his passing lanes.
    This is a really important point...particularly when guys pick up their dribble. I recall a situation where Lance was getting pressured and he can use his body to create separation. It's not just his creativity helping him. He has the strength, length and the reputation as a passer going for him. I would say that if the Pacers can get him to be the primary ball handler successfully, we are a much better team. We are already a strong contender and that has the potential of making us a dominant team. Much depends on how Lance develops.

  3. #128
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    G hill is not a point guard... He can't create for others can't penetrate the lane or be a threat in the lane.. The issue is we payed a player with backup talent at best starter money... Mike Conley would be perfect for this team... I'm not sure we can get him but would fit great... At the beginning of the season we took the ball out of G Hill hands early in the offense
    And was able to get easy shots early and often... Anyone got any trade ideas for Mike Conley and how we could land him... GHILL IS NOT......NOR HAS EVER BEEN ...OR WILL EVER BE A STARTING PG

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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    You remember that Bird traded the majority of the Pacers short-term assets to get Scola, right?

    All the ELITE level PGs that everyone pines for aren't going to be traded.....so, I will ask what I always ask......what Starting level PG do you think that we can get for any combination of GH, Granger, Copeland, OJ, Solo and Mahinmi?
    I think we could land Mike Conley .. He would be a perfect fit and make our team so much better...Conley can shoot, score ,defend, pass, penetrate the lane to break Dow defenses, he also gets steals

  5. #130
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millertime3131 View Post
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    I think we could land Mike Conley .. He would be a perfect fit and make our team so much better...Conley can shoot, score ,defend, pass, penetrate the lane to break Dow defenses, he also gets steals
    Land mike Conley? For....who, exactly? They won't listen to any offer that doesn't include Paul George. They have no need for west, Stephenson or hibbert (they have Allen, gasol and Randolph) and they won't trade him for granger just to get rid of him.

    You made this bed when you re-signed him for $40 million. He's your PG this year and in the future. He isn't bad for what he's being asked to do, but buyer's remorse is out of the question. There's no flexibility to acquire a replacement.
    Last edited by Kstat; 12-20-2013 at 04:47 AM.

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  7. #131
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millertime3131 View Post
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    I think we could land Mike Conley .. He would be a perfect fit and make our team so much better...Conley can shoot, score ,defend, pass, penetrate the lane to break Dow defenses, he also gets steals
    Mike Conley would be a great fit but we cannot do that as Kstat pointed out.

    And as we are comparing the two I have to say the following:

    George Hill is a better shooter than Mike Conley. He is a better 3 point shooter (especially this year), a better mid-range shooter (Hill will take mid-range shots more often and will make them at a better clip), a better FT shooter (not this year, though), a significantly better rebounder and a better shot-blocker. Conley is certainly a better playmaker and possible a better scorer at this point as well (although, he does take a lot more shots than Hill) and both of them are great defenders (Hill being a better shot-blocker, Conley being better at getting steals although both would be a result of their team's respective defensive philosophies).

    In fact, I considered the two to be on the same tier before the playoffs started. However, Conley led the Grizzlies in the playoffs so he certainly moved up in the ladder.
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  8. #132
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    I was thinking about it the other day, and I came to the conclusion that Mike Conley is the top defensive PG in the nba. I can't find another guy that defends as well and as consistently. He's really developed.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    A lot of the Hill ragging reminds me of Roy last year when he couldn't drop a shot into the ocean if he tried.

    I wonder if George is playing with an injury that is bothering him more than he is letting on.
    Really hope George Hill gets better in playoff time like Roy did last year.

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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    I do love Mike Conley though. Might be one of the most underrated players in the league.

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  12. #135
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Probably not going to be able to trade Hill and a better asset back, But I think you could get Mike Conley. I think they could send a package of Granger + Lance for him.
    Thus you move Hill to SG. That would really be shuffling the decks at the trade deadline, but Hill can easily replace Lance's scoring and defense at the 2. Conley give us a true point guard who can still score and rack up assists.

    Why does Memphis do it? Because they seem to want to keep shedding salary, and your giving them a young guy like Lance to rebuild around.
    I'd only do this though if at the trade deadline it was clear that even with Danny Granger, this team still struggles to score the ball in pressure situations.

    A real plus about this trade is that you would have your starting 5 locked up for several more years, and Hill's value as a traditional 2 guard will increase.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 12-20-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Probably not going to be able to trade Hill and a better asset back, But I think you could get Mike Conley. I think they could send a package of Granger + Lance for him.
    Thus you move Hill to SG. That would really be shuffling the decks at the trade deadline, but Hill can easily replace Lance's scoring and defense at the 2. Conley give us a true point guard who can still score and rack up assists.

    Why does Memphis do it? Because they seem to want to keep shedding salary, and your giving them a young guy like Lance to rebuild around.
    I'd only do this though if at the trade deadline it was clear that even with Danny Granger, this team still struggles to score the ball in pressure situations.

    A real plus about this trade is that you would have your starting 5 locked up for several more years, and Hill's value as a traditional 2 guard will increase.
    There is no way in hell Memphis goes for that. None. Zero.

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  15. #137

    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Probably not going to be able to trade Hill and a better asset back, But I think you could get Mike Conley. I think they could send a package of Granger + Lance for him.
    Thus you move Hill to SG. That would really be shuffling the decks at the trade deadline, but Hill can easily replace Lance's scoring and defense at the 2. Conley give us a true point guard who can still score and rack up assists.

    Why does Memphis do it? Because they seem to want to keep shedding salary, and your giving them a young guy like Lance to rebuild around.
    I'd only do this though if at the trade deadline it was clear that even with Danny Granger, this team still struggles to score the ball in pressure situations.

    A real plus about this trade is that you would have your starting 5 locked up for several more years, and Hill's value as a traditional 2 guard will increase.
    Hell no and HELL NO. A 6'3 SG?!

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  17. #138
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    I'm not a Mike Conley fan so no I wouldn't want his a** here.

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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    I haven't read all of this thread, but frankly it must be a damn miracle we are 20-5 with such a schlub at point guard. It is amazing we ever thought he was a competent player, I mean only Greg Poppovich loved him and that guy hasn't done a damn thing in like 6 years!

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  20. #140
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millertime3131 View Post
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    G hill is not a point guard... He can't create for others can't penetrate the lane or be a threat in the lane.. The issue is we payed a player with backup talent at best starter money... Mike Conley would be perfect for this team... I'm not sure we can get him but would fit great... At the beginning of the season we took the ball out of G Hill hands early in the offense
    And was able to get easy shots early and often... Anyone got any trade ideas for Mike Conley and how we could land him... GHILL IS NOT......NOR HAS EVER BEEN ...OR WILL EVER BE A STARTING PG
    If George Hill isn't a starting PG then neither are 75% of the other starting PG's in the league. This isn't the 90's any more, Conley is the exception not the norm.

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  22. #141

    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Eh, our entire team needs to improve against the aggressive defense Miami played in the second half. Every guy was getting trapped, rarely getting the help they need. None of our wings were getting the ball into the post, not just Hill.
    Lance barely had the ball in the second half. He can do it if we'd ask him to.

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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I was thinking about it the other day, and I came to the conclusion that Mike Conley is the top defensive PG in the nba. I can't find another guy that defends as well and as consistently. He's really developed.
    I actually think Russel Westbrook is the best defensive PG in the league right now. Conley is very very strong, and lacks any real weakness. But Westbrook can downright be dominant on that end.

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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I haven't read all of this thread, but frankly it must be a damn miracle we are 20-5 with such a schlub at point guard. It is amazing we ever thought he was a competent player, I mean only Greg Poppovich loved him and that guy hasn't done a damn thing in like 6 years!
    20 Wins is great, but i'm more concern with the quality of losses. In the 6 losses he did not compete. Against those Elite teams we need him to compete and hold his own. Thats a problem, because in the playoffs, we will be playing teams with good point guards, and teams that play great PnR schemes.
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  25. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Lance barely had the ball in the second half. He can do it if we'd ask him to.
    Unless bad Lance subs in then we get passes to mahinmi with the clock expiring and 8 TOs.

  26. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    Unless bad Lance subs in then we get passes to mahinmi with the clock expiring and 8 TOs.
    High risk... High reward no doubt. Luckily there's only Miami and maybe a couple other teams pressure defense that we need to worry about.

  27. #146

    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    High risk... High reward no doubt. Luckily there's only Miami and maybe a couple other teams pressure defense that we need to worry about.
    High risk chances arent how you win in the NBA though

  28. #147

    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    High risk chances arent how you win in the NBA though
    Our only other option is to watch Paul and Hill struggle to get us into any kind of offense when the pressure is turned up. That hasn't worked out so well in the past.

    I think we play right into their hands allowing Wade and James to play off the ball while their PGs harass Hill.

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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Stephenson at PG would backfire horribly. He's a SG that can pass, not the other way around.

    Stephenson doesn't initiate offense. He attacks. That's fine when you're asking him to score, but not if you want to get hibbert, west and George involved.

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  31. #149
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Stephenson at PG would backfire horribly. He's a SG that can pass, not the other way around.

    Stephenson doesn't initiate offense. He attacks. That's fine when you're asking him to score, but not if you want to get hibbert, west and George involved.
    ^ This exactly.

    Lance is great at attacking and passing out on the drive, but he never runs an offense, AT ALL. When Lance is handling the ball it is basically him free-styling. That's a great weapon to use interspersed with your other offensive sets. It mixes it up the game tempo, and often catches the other team offguard. But it would be insane to make Lance the permanent PG and run our entire offense like that. There is a HELL of a lot more to being a point-guard than just drive and dish.

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  33. #150
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    Default Re: George Hill problem ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Lance barely had the ball in the second half. He can do it if we'd ask him to.
    Because just like PG, he didn't move without the ball well. Our wings need to free themselves better. Miami was trapping hard and the wings weren't helping nearly enough. Gotta move without the ball!

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