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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    From Peck's original post:

    Lance and Paul got into a shouting match with each other on the bench tonight. It was over an offensive possession early in the 4th (I think) but it was pretty heated for a few min.
    I noticed a similar thing a couple games ago. Paul hit a late three pointer, and while turning to the crowd celebrating (channel JO, if you will), everyone else headed down the floor. The other team beat our guys and Paul started to yell at Lance over the play. Lance, in turn, gave Paul some grief. I can only assume he was telling Paul he should have gotten back on defense instead of showing off for the fans.

    Now, I understand that Lance was in a better position (having been near the top of the key) than Paul (his three had been some the sideline) to get back down the court, but a guy who is soaking in the fans adoration instead of hustling should not be telling another player off about defense.

    I like both these guys, but that is my take on it. Quit celebrating while the action is still going on.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    From Peck's original post:



    I noticed a similar thing a couple games ago. Paul hit a late three pointer, and while turning to the crowd celebrating (channel JO, if you will), everyone else headed down the floor. The other team beat our guys and Paul started to yell at Lance over the play. Lance, in turn, gave Paul some grief. I can only assume he was telling Paul he should have gotten back on defense instead of showing off for the fans.

    Now, I understand that Lance was in a better position (having been near the top of the key) than Paul (his three had been some the sideline) to get back down the court, but a guy who is soaking in the fans adoration instead of hustling should not be telling another player off about defense.

    I like both these guys, but that is my take on it. Quit celebrating while the action is still going on.
    Both are equally guilty of that

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    My other question is really more of a philosophical thing & I know a lot of coach’s don’t believe in doing it but to me it just makes sense. When Lance hit that three to bring us to two why not foul Andre Drummond on purpose? He was still in the game and there is no way in hell he would have hit 2 free throws, he might have hit 1 but no way would he have hit 2.
    We could not do that. The game was within the last two minutes. You cannot do "hack-a-Shaq" in the final two minutes because any off-the-ball foul in that time period means that the offensive team retains possession after the free throws.
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  6. #29

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    It seems like Paul's head hasn't been 100% in the game the last couple of games. Last night was the worst game I have seen him play since early last year. I think all the hype he has gotten and plus it being Christmastime is affecting his concentration. He is a newlywed too... Lord knows that will distract a man. I hope he gets his focus back soon.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama-Redneck View Post
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    I am not trying to defend PG but he is averaging almost 37 minutes per game while almost always defending the best player of the other team. He is averaging 24 ppg with the other team switching defenders trying to keep fresh legs on him. I am anxious to see if Danny's return will help. PG can not keep up this pace and still have something left for the playoffs. Just my opinion.
    If you're guarding a player who does a backdoor cut and is wide open, unless you got pic'ed, YOU were not paying attention. I've seen a few different players get Paul at this. Matter-of-fact, if I remember right Charlotte did it almost back-to-back possessions. That's on Paul not watching what's going on, and/nor paying attention. Plus, shooting contested shots shouldn't get blamed on fatigue

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If they keep running the offense through Josh Smith on the block, they will be good much sooner than that. If they don't, they will never be, short of another roster overhaul.

    As I mentioned before, Smith went at Nic Batum on the block Sunday and shot 13/14 inside the paint. Now he's got two consecutive 30+ point games to build on, on combined 57% shooting. Neither of these games were flukes where he shot lights out from the perimeter. Either this continues or it doesn't, but it's all up to him.
    Agreed. Smith is a very good scorer in the paint. If he sticks there then he is going to be efficient.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    I'm not particularly mad that we lost this game. But, I'm pissed as hell at HOW we lost this game.

    I've always tried to count the number of games in a season that we lose against teams that we believe should not beat us. We will always experience this type of game. In our 61 win season, we only had 4-5 games that we absolutely blew against much lesser competition. Same for the season we went to the finals. In other seasons where our team was not quite as good, we could easily have 9-10 games that were blown. And frankly, I don't know if I would put Detroit in this category. They simply are a team that isj growing together and thus will probably be less consistent in performance than the better teams in the league. But make no mistake. When Detroit is playing their best, they can play with ANY team in the league. They could easily end up being a major obstacle for any team's path to the EC title.

    But the game last night did not have to end with a loss. Their were so many possibilities that could have changed it's outcome. For example, we take for granted that Paul and Roy will always play with courage and heart. Yet, last night I really believe both played passively. I've never seen Paul so unfocused defensively. I would expect him to have problems with Smith's strength whenever Smith gets the ball in the paint, but I would not expect him to allow so many poorly contested jump shots, nor would I expect him to be caught standing on several backdoor cuts and opportunities to offer help defense. But, I suppose there will be games where your elite defender will defend no better than average. I just did not want to see it happen due to a lack of effort and focus.

    As for Roy, like Peck, I worried the second I saw Drummond's follow up dunk. I was hoping that Drummond's two early fouls and trip to the bench would provide a stimulus for Roy to change things and begin exerting himself, but it never happened. For whatever reason, it's always important for Roy to start strong on at least one end of the floor. That's why the Pacers usually go to him early on he offensive end. Unfortunately, if his first few attempts miss badly and the opponent is having success in the paint, sometimes it builds a hole for Roy that he is not able to climb out of.

    Another reason that I believe that this loss did not have to happen is one that has already been mentioned. Vogel made poor decisions. When you have players playing their best for you, you go with them. Scola should have been in the game. The ball should have been controlled by Lance to create opportunities primarily for himself and Scola. Both are good passers and could have moved the ball to other players as better opportunities developed. But the bottom line is, if you are getting no offense from Roy and we aren't able to keep the opponent from scoring in the paint as well, you may as well go with the West/Scola combination to assure that your own offense will be better.

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  12. #33
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    If they keep running the offense through Josh Smith on the block, they will be good much sooner than that. If they don't, they will never be, short of another roster overhaul.

    As I mentioned before, Smith went at Nic Batum on the block Sunday and shot 13/14 inside the paint. Now he's got two consecutive 30+ point games to build on, on combined 57% shooting. Neither of these games were flukes where he shot lights out from the perimeter. Either this continues or it doesn't, but it's all up to him.
    I agree. 30 points on 29 shots does not constitute a great game by any means. But Smith hit just enough from outside to force us to deal with him, thus better opening up his interior game. If Smith restricted his game from about 18 feet and in and tried to get 60% of his opportunities from the paint where he can use his strength advantage, he would be extremely difficult to stop.

  13. #34
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Anyone else think Roy has not been moving, running, jumping well in the past few games. I think because of this his defense is now where near as good as it was in the first 6 weeks of the season and that is the biggest reason why our defense has dropped a little bit lately
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-18-2013 at 08:24 AM.

  14. #35

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Seems like this is the reality check needed for this team. I know people like to say that there are no good losses, but I disagree. This team just had a really successful roadtrip, and beat Miami after spotting Miami a lead.

    I also think PG is tired. Danny's return is going to help this team a lot.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Both are equally guilty of that
    The celebrating is starting to **** me off, especially from Paul cause I expect better from him. The attention he has been getting has started to go to his head, and I don't like it. It is one thing to celebrate if there is a dead ball afterwards, but if you don't hear a whistle get your *** back on defense and act like you have been there and done that.

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  18. #37

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    I love the "what if's" regarding Josh Smith. Dude took 29 shots to get 30 points. Dumb ballplayer and perpetual loser. How well did lusting after talent work for Donnie?

    The Pacers shat the bed with poor effort. You can't expect to "turn the extra gear on" in the fourth quarter. Yeah, those Miami Heat have an extra gear over everyone else. A myth. It's a gamble. ****** play over three quarters more often than not is not countered by a concise, concentrated effort in the fourth.

    I hope PG stops whining to the refs so much. And that's not an excuse so much as it is a statement of his recent play. JO is a top five Pacer probably, and that **** got old quick.

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  20. #38

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Roy's shot is caught between Robert Parrish and Tim Duncan. He need to either bank it or drill it. There is no in between. If he can make up his mind the shots will go in and the Pacers will win more games.

    The Pacers need someone close to Frank who can point out the fact he can not take out the hot hand and win. (Larry???speak up please.)

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  22. #39
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Toughness....Imported from Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by kidthecat View Post
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    I love the "what if's" regarding Josh Smith. Dude took 29 shots to get 30 points. Dumb ballplayer and perpetual loser. How well did lusting after talent work for Donnie?
    The "perpetual loser" has won more than he's lost in each of the past 5 seasons....

    And yes, he took 29 shots to get 30 last night. He took 18 the night before to get 31 against Portland. He's effective in the paint. Even with his high volume of shots, he was the best player on the floor.
    Last edited by Kstat; 12-18-2013 at 09:26 AM.

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