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Thread: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16



    I know it's just sarcasm, but if I'm going to be consistent I ought to snip this too because it's going to invite... well, you know what it will invite




    On a serious note, Paul has to get back to getting good balance on his jumpshots. He's not doing himself any favors trying to take difficult shots where he's leaning one way or the other. Get yourself some open set shots, get your feet underneath you, and hit some damn shots Paul.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Paul was also taking much better jumpers earlier in the season. Lately, he's been forcing contested jumpers, or shots completely outside the flow of the offense. He's not only been putting up bad shots, but he's also been forcing the issue with his attempted creating and passing. Paul still needs to learn what is a good shot and when he should take it. If he ever learns that, those "%s" are very sustainable.
    Yeah, lately he's been taking way too many Kobe-ish forced jumpers. The problem is that he's not as good as Kobe used to be. Hopefully the coaching staff can get him back to taking better shots.

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    On a serious note, Paul has to get back to getting good balance on his jumpshots. He's not doing himself any favors trying to take difficult shots where he's leaning one way or the other. Get yourself some open set shots, get your feet underneath you, and hit some damn shots Paul.
    I blame the defense, they won't let Paul get set.

    On a serious note: What I just said.
    .

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    I looked this up for the hell of it because I was curious.

    Since 1985-86 (and including last night's game), the Pacers are 96-72 when letting their opponent get 20 or more offensive rebounds. That record dropped to 94-70 for games in which the Pacers also grabbed less than 20 offensive boards themselves.

    Huh. Wouldn't have guessed that.
    That makes some sense to me because as I recall the Reggie teams weren't exactly known for tremendous rebounding.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Nah, it's all on Paul. He's trying to force things. You can tell when he drives to the basket. Just a week ago, he'd get space and then pull up for a little jumpshot or he's even tried the floaters (although I don't think he's hit one yet) while Friday night and especially last night, he tries getting all the way to the rim and it's resulting with a flip shot towards the rim trying to evade the shot blocker.

    One or two dribbles with a change of direction is a staple he used to rely on to get, he could get space and get his feet underneath him. Now it looks like he just goes into his jumpshot and tries creating space after he jumps into the air by using his length. When you are struggling with your shot, you've got to get a couple good clean looks and get your body back to the proper form, instead of forcing things.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  7. #156

    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    We looked like the team that had played the night before. Lazy passes, lazy defense and not even trying for rebounds. What happened to the blue collar? All we are is gold swagger now.

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  9. #157
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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Let's not forget that this may be the best front line we face all season.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Also Paul had some problems with Josh Smith in the first round of the playoffs last season.

    Bottom line if Josh Smith wasn't Josh Smith he would be one of the very best players in the NBA. He is as talented as anyone in the NBA. When he is right he is as good as anyone. (reminds me of Derrick Coleman in that way).

    I want to also say that I was extremely impressed with Kentavious Caldwell-Pope's defense. He was impressive.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-17-2013 at 10:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Smith took 29 shots to get his numbers, Thats not a good night. Thats pretty inefficient, and only speaks to how many extra chances Detroilet got with those 20 offensive rebounds. That was they only key to this game. You limit their ORs and the Pacers probably win without any trouble. Thats why this loss pisses me off so much, the bigs did not show up. THey they knew Detroit is gonna crash the boards, yet they did not box out with any real consistency. Ever player should have been crashing the boards, Detroit is not a good shooting team, alot like us from last season where we were not a great shooting team but we got so many ORs that we made up for it. They killed us at our own game.
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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Also Paul had some problems with Josh Smith in the first round of the playoffs last season.

    Bottom line if Josh Smith wasn't Josh Smith he would be one of the very best players in the NBA. He is as talented as anyone in the NBA. When he is right he is as good as anyone. (reminds me of Derrick Coleman in that way).

    I want to also say that I was extremely impressed with Kentavious Caldwell-Pope's defense. He was impressive.
    When Paul struggles defensively it is against those tweener forwards like Smith and Lebron...one reason Danny returning will be a pleasant addition as he generally fares a bit better against those guys...

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Paul was also taking much better jumpers earlier in the season. Lately, he's been forcing contested jumpers, or shots completely outside the flow of the offense. He's not only been putting up bad shots, but he's also been forcing the issue with his attempted creating and passing. Paul still needs to learn what is a good shot and when he should take it. If he ever learns that, those "%s" are very sustainable.
    I think it is human nature to make certain errors after having success. You forget how you attained the success. The Pacers have forgotten about ball movement and lock down defense. They think, because they are 20-3, they now can take any shot (i.e. Roy and PG) and they will still go in like before. I hope they learned a lesson last night. Contested difficult shots will not go in very often.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Smith took 29 shots to get his numbers, Thats not a good night. Thats pretty inefficient, and only speaks to how many extra chances Detroilet got with those 20 offensive rebounds. That was they only key to this game. You limit their ORs and the Pacers probably win without any trouble. Thats why this loss pisses me off so much, the bigs did not show up. THey they knew Detroit is gonna crash the boards, yet they did not box out with any real consistency. Ever player should have been crashing the boards, Detroit is not a good shooting team, alot like us from last season where we were not a great shooting team but we got so many ORs that we made up for it. They killed us at our own game.
    29 shots maybe a lot of attempts....but as I mentioned this earlier, I checked his Shot Chart. He hit 6 of 12 from beyond 12 feet ( but inside the 3pt line ). He ( or anyone else ) won't be able to hit shot shots on a regular consistent basis in a 7 game series...but in this one game, he basically killed us by hitting the shots that the Team chooses not to defend.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    When Paul struggles defensively it is against those tweener forwards like Smith and Lebron...one reason Danny returning will be a pleasant addition as he generally fares a bit better against those guys...
    I attribute PG24 lack of scoring yesterday night to 3 things:

    Josh Smith defending him
    KCP defending him
    His finger still bothering him enough that it affected his shooting

    I am hoping that he's able to get his act together against LeDecision....cuz he's going from the frying pan into the oven tomorrow.....but things aren't going to get easy going forward.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  21. #164

    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    I went back and watched all 20 offensive rebounds. Here were the main culprits:

    - Not boxing out the guy you are defending. Duh! Main culprits here are the usual suspects, David West and Luis Scola. Hibbert had one, as did Lance.
    - Not boxing out Hibbert/Mahinmi's man when they help. This is more complicated. As Popovich says, it isn't a defensive stop until you get the rebound.
    - Monroe shoving Paul George in the back. It was a tough scrum and George didn't flop to his credit. But shoulda been a foul.
    - Weird shots. An airball went straight into the hands of Caldwell-Pope. An errant 3 point shot hit the backboard (but not the rim), dribbled to the free throw line, and was scooped up by the nearest Piston. Not much you can do there.
    - Hibbert getting beat by a big man. This happened several times. The box out is there, the effort is there. Hibbert just doesn't have the strength and athleticism to grab it sometimes. A failure of skill, not effort.

    Lots of stuff. Some fixable, some not. If I had to point a finger of blame, it would be David West. He was the one most consistently standing around on plays where he could have made an impact.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Also Paul had some problems with Josh Smith in the first round of the playoffs last season.

    Bottom line if Josh Smith wasn't Josh Smith he would be one of the very best players in the NBA. He is as talented as anyone in the NBA. When he is right he is as good as anyone. (reminds me of Derrick Coleman in that way).

    I want to also say that I was extremely impressed with Kentavious Caldwell-Pope's defense. He was impressive.
    KCP has been utter crap shooting the ball all season, but his defense has been beyond good.

    2013 Pacers Digest NBA 2K13 Champion (Xbox 360)

  24. #166

    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    This I totally agree with. The Pistons will not be in the race for first place against us and Miami will. When JSmoove AND Jennings get it going in the same game, Detroit will be hard to handle. Hopefully, Smith has had both of his 'good' games back to back already. Jennings will shoot his team out of games as often as he shoots them in. That being said, the Pistons now have a real Coach and if they stay tied together like they were against us, they will be a load by playoff time.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Josh frickin Harrellson

    Kentucky Wildcat. A bluecollar lunch pail type guy. I was surprised he got drafted as he never did anything at KY until his senior year.

    Kind of reminds me of the Brian Cardinal mold player.

  26. #168

    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    When Lance gets the ball, good things happen. He is fearless, knows how to drive, knows how to shoot, knows how to rebound, and knows how to set teammates up. I could watch him hit Scola up for open J's all day. Glad to see another great game from Scola. This game would have been a blowout if it weren't for those two guys.

    QFT

    I'm not a fan of Hill, but he's got his games. I have never understood his rep for being a big "D" player. He has never been able to guard PGs with speed and quicks.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    I'm seeing lethargic play and more porous defense in the past two games, especially from Paul George and George Hill.

    Your post has merit to me as I felt PG was just making sloppy careless passes. I quit counting at what I felt was 4 TO's. I watched him out of position numerous times allowing his opponent to score. Seemed on both counts a lack of focus.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    QFT

    I'm not a fan of Hill, but he's got his games. I have never understood his rep for being a big "D" player. He has never been able to guard PGs with speed and quicks.
    George Hill didn't have his best game defensively.

    However, George Hill is holding opposing players to a .443 eFG%. If GH opponents were a player, that "player" would rank #43 out of #49 guards in the NBA this season who have started 15 or more games.

    In general, if you are being guarded by George Hill three things will rarely happen:

    - You won't get open threes off of screens
    - You won't get into the lane unless you are headed straight for Roy Hibbert
    - You won't get into the lane without a screen

    George Hill will gladly let you come off a screen and take a shot at the free throw line. He will roll the red carpet out for you. Sure, you might score (and some fans might be annoyed that the shot is open), but in the long run Hill & the Pacers will take the low-effeciency shot.

    Now, George Hill is not a saint. He makes mistakes, and his game versus the Pistons was not his best. He got beat several times one-on-one. Paul George struggled too. Players struggle sometimes.

    But that doesn't make them bad at what they do. George Hill is a master of PNR defense, and is a key cog of this historically great defense.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    George Hill didn't have his best game defensively.

    However, George Hill is holding opposing players to a .443 eFG%. If GH opponents were a player, that "player" would rank #43 out of #49 guards in the NBA this season who have started 15 or more games.

    In general, if you are being guarded by George Hill three things will rarely happen:

    - You won't get open threes off of screens
    - You won't get into the lane unless you are headed straight for Roy Hibbert
    - You won't get into the lane without a screen

    George Hill will gladly let you come off a screen and take a shot at the free throw line. He will roll the red carpet out for you. Sure, you might score (and some fans might be annoyed that the shot is open), but in the long run Hill & the Pacers will take the low-effeciency shot.

    Now, George Hill is not a saint. He makes mistakes, and his game versus the Pistons was not his best. He got beat several times one-on-one. Paul George struggled too. Players struggle sometimes.

    But that doesn't make them bad at what they do. George Hill is a master of PNR defense, and is a key cog of this historically great defense.
    I agree with most of this, except calling George Hill a "master" of PnR defense is absurd. He's a "master" of funneling his man into the 7'2" defensive player of the year.

    Now, he fills his role defensively in indiana's scheme just fine, but telling your PG to go over every single PnR he sees does not take any sort of mastery. Hill's job could not be any easier.

    2013 Pacers Digest NBA 2K13 Champion (Xbox 360)

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  32. #172

    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    George Hill didn't have his best game defensively.

    However, George Hill is holding opposing players to a .443 eFG%. If GH opponents were a player, that "player" would rank #43 out of #49 guards in the NBA this season who have started 15 or more games.

    In general, if you are being guarded by George Hill three things will rarely happen:

    - You won't get open threes off of screens
    - You won't get into the lane unless you are headed straight for Roy Hibbert
    - You won't get into the lane without a screen

    George Hill will gladly let you come off a screen and take a shot at the free throw line. He will roll the red carpet out for you. Sure, you might score (and some fans might be annoyed that the shot is open), but in the long run Hill & the Pacers will take the low-effeciency shot.

    Now, George Hill is not a saint. He makes mistakes, and his game versus the Pistons was not his best. He got beat several times one-on-one. Paul George struggled too. Players struggle sometimes.

    But that doesn't make them bad at what they do. George Hill is a master of PNR defense, and is a key cog of this historically great defense.
    Quit using logic. Hill isn't flashy so we have to hate him without a real reason.

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  34. #173
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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I agree with most of this, except calling George Hill a "master" of PnR defense is absurd. He's a "master" of funneling his man into the 7'2" defensive player of the year.
    Not gonna lie, that made me laugh really hard.

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  36. #174

    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    This I totally agree with. The Pistons will not be in the race for first place against us and Miami will. When JSmoove AND Jennings get it going in the same game, Detroit will be hard to handle. Hopefully, Smith has had both of his 'good' games back to back already. Jennings will shoot his team out of games as often as he shoots them in. That being said, the Pistons now have a real Coach and if they stay tied together like they were against us, they will be a load by playoff time.

    Yeah but five second violation, and Roy getting called for a bad foul at the end....take that away? We probably win this game. Detroit played well, but I am not ready to anoint them just yet. Not to mention....still no Danny.

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    Default Re: Pacers / Pistons Post Game thread - 12/16

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Yeah but five second violation, and Roy getting called for a bad foul at the end....take that away? We probably win this game. Detroit played well, but I am not ready to anoint them just yet. Not to mention....still no Danny.
    I could swear someone recently started a thread about mocking silly excuses for losing....must be my imagination.

    2013 Pacers Digest NBA 2K13 Champion (Xbox 360)

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