Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Dead Cap Space

  1. #1

    Default Dead Cap Space



    Note: This post was originally in the post game thread; I moved it along with its earlier responses here because it's off topic relative to a thread that is meant to discuss the IND @ OKC game; so croz did not choose to start a new thread just to say this, FYI



    It'd be nice if we didn't have $14mil in dead cap space...

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to croz24 For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Member HickeyS2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Indianapolis/Sacramento
    Posts
    847

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers/Thunder Postgame Thread 12/8/13

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It'd be nice if we didn't have $14mil in dead cap space...
    Or a suddenly inept starting two-guard. But hey, we all gotta cherry pick something to complain about, right?

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to HickeyS2000 For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    30,933

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers/Thunder Postgame Thread 12/8/13

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Or a suddenly inept starting two-guard. But hey, we all gotta cherry pick something to complain about, right?
    Lance had a pretty rough night last night, the most disappointing thing about that for me is that it is night's like that where you'd like to see his young legs shine. Paul could have used some help from Lance, but Lance is still a player in process while Paul is becoming more and more a finished, polished superstar level player every day

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Pacers/Thunder Postgame Thread 12/8/13

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It'd be nice if we didn't have $17mil in dead cap space...
    14+3mil of Cope = 17mil of dead cap space.

    I thought about adding Ian but even though he sucks I don't consider him dead weight.

  8. #5

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    That space would not have been all that important. The Pacers ended up spending 5 million this offseason using exceptions because they were over the cap. If they hadn't had Granger on the roster in the offseason, a quick calculation would have left them with about 8.5 million of cap space (after West signed, before he signed it would have been a little less since his cap hold was more than his contract), plus a 2.5 million room exception.

    So at most, they would have had about 6 million extra to spend, and they couldn't spend the whole 11 million on one player. The Pacers also couldn't have afforded to add any more salary to the years after this year than they already did, so any extra money spent would have had to be on one year deals. It might have helped get one more 9th man type of player, but it's not nearly as big of a difference as 14 million of cap space would seem to imply.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cubs231721 For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,753

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Wasn't this post from croz originally in a different thread (I think the postgame)? Is every little quip going to be moved to its own thread from now on?

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:


  12. #7
    Let PG Fly Again Soon! ECKrueger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Age
    23
    Posts
    4,067

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers/Thunder Postgame Thread 12/8/13

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    14+3mil of Cope = 17mil of dead cap space.

    I thought about adding Ian but even though he sucks I don't consider him dead weight.
    Why that's the nicest thing I've heard you say about Ian

    I like Ian, but he needs to tone down the effort on O, and focus 100% on D.

  13. #8
    Member KingGeorge_24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    208

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    We need to trade Copeland, Stephenson and Mahinmi. Try to get Shumpert, Ariza or Afflalo. Try to snatch Jordon Hill too.
    “This was just a taste,” George said. “I want to be here every year until I can’t go no more.”

  14. #9
    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,324

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    It be nice if we had the best record in the league....oh wait....

    Seriously...some people just need to get a life...

  15. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to cinotimz For This Useful Post:


  16. #10
    Let PG Fly Again Soon! ECKrueger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Age
    23
    Posts
    4,067

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It be nice if we had the best record in the league....oh wait....

    Seriously...some people just need to get a life...
    We have three losses, we obviously need to restructure the beach.

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ECKrueger For This Useful Post:


  18. #11
    RING THE BELL! Sandman21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Area55
    Posts
    6,334

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    TRADE EVERYBODY!

    What do you think Dale Davis?
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

  19. #12

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space



    ask in the right places

    Anyway, same scenario for the Colts last year with approximately $30mil in dead cap space yet still competing. It's amazing that we have the record that we have operating with such a large contract on the bench that's providing 0 value. Essentially, we are playing with $15mil less than the rest of the league, yet still own the best record in basketball. I'd be amazed to think of how good we could be if that money was actually put to use.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to croz24 For This Useful Post:


  21. #13
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    30,933

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How the hell did this get its own thread??? Anyway, same scenario for the Colts last year with approximately $30mil in dead cap space yet still competing. It's amazing that we have the record that we have operating with such a large contract on the bench that's providing 0 value. Essentially, we are playing with $15mil less than the rest of the league, yet still own the best record in basketball. I'd be amazed to think of how good we could be if that money was actually put to use.
    Ok, but Danny's value now is essentially going to be 0, there's no way to trade him and the contract is what it is. You just have to hold your water. Everybody has bad contracts or injured players so I think saying we are somehow at a disadvantage compared to other teams is not really a truth.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  23. #14

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ok, but Danny's value now is essentially going to be 0, there's no way to trade him and the contract is what it is. You just have to hold your water. Everybody has bad contracts or injured players so I think saying we are somehow at a disadvantage compared to other teams is not really a truth.
    The idea of trading Granger is long gone. I was merely thinking about how this Pacers team has attained the best record in the league, while operating with such a severe disadvantage with all of that money left on the table, not helping this current team.

  24. #15
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,633

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Danny Granger's paycheck, playing or not playing, has absolutely no effect on this team's win/loss record right now. If it did, it would be a net positive considering all the success they've had without him.

    As far as dead weight is concerned, every team has at least one player earning a big check while not playing. Derrick Rose is dead weight right now too so is Nerlens Noel. Look at Andrew Bynum last year. Philly wisely walked away from him at the end of the season but they got burned. Injuries happen and you can't account for them when you're signing a young All-Star or potential All-Star player.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  25. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to naptownmenace For This Useful Post:


  26. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Yes, if only we could have the best starting five in the NBA and the best bench!

    Seriously, it seems like people are upset that our front office didn't have a crystal ball and didn't make all perfect moves in recent years. There may only be one team that feels they have a better starting five than the Pacers and that is Miami (that's debateable with Wade's decline). Lance was intended to be a bench player and would be one of the best 6th men in the NBA if not for injuries. We also have one of the best backup Power Forwards and Centers in the NBA. Watson is a very good backup. So, you are complaining because, despite having a better to 8 than anyone in the NBA, our 9-12 guys aren't great? Talk about high expectations. We have the best starting five in the NBA and an above average bench. If Granger comes back and plays well, we will have one of the best starting fives in the NBA and one of the best benches in the NBA.

    I guess some people just want to be negative. They are probably the same people that constantly talked about Peyton Manning not performing as well in the playoffs, but never offered a solution. He just won us a Super Bowl...something that had never been done in Indianapolis. But Peyton sucks because he wasn't one of the greatest playoff quarterbacks of all time. Boo-hoo!

    Our bench is in very good shape. Every team in the league would love to be able to have Scola coming off the bench. Few teams have better options at the backup point and center positions than us. But you are right, our front office wasn't able to put together a team that would win 75 games, we should ***** about it now. If only the Pacers front office would listen to us fans, they would have won the title by now. We fans know much more than people who devote their entire lives to scouting and evaluating talent.

  27. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to The Big Smooth For This Useful Post:


  28. #17
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,624

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The idea of trading Granger is long gone. I was merely thinking about how this Pacers team has attained the best record in the league, while operating with such a severe disadvantage with all of that money left on the table, not helping this current team.
    The answer to how the Pacers can get the best record while operating at ( as you suggest ) a $15 mil deficit is easy:



    Maybe the record could be better if better moves over the last couple of years, but S*** happens.....not all moves are always a homerun but a dud, you deal with it and move on. Bird...over the course of the last 3 to 5 years....was able to take a whole bag of rotting lemons and turned it into Lemon Meringue Pie.

    As PRO7 suggests....there's no use crying over spilled milk.....we revel in the success of the Core Starters, live with whatever some may consider to be "dead weight" on the Team while celebrating that most ( if not ALL ) of them are proverbial "Milk Drinkers" that don't get into any real trouble ( on and off the court ).
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-09-2013 at 01:42 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  29. #18
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    I split this off to keep the post game thread about the actual game that was just played in OKC versus a random place to complain about Danny Granger or his contract.

    That aside, there are appropriate places to complain or otherwise comment about admin actions, and it's not here.

    Also, coming in to a thread just to call it stupid or something similar is unwanted on PD.

  30. #19

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The answer to how the Pacers can get the best record while operating at ( as you suggest ) a $15 mil deficit is easy:



    Maybe the record could be better if better moves over the last couple of years, but S*** happens.....not all moves are always a homerun but a dud, you deal with it and move on. As PRO7 suggests....there's no use crying over spilled milk.
    Nobody is crying. My god. I didn't start this thread. I posted that comment in the postgame thread. It's amazing where we are at considering such a huge disadvantage compared to the other teams in the league. Talk about a comment getting taken out of context.

    see above


  31. #20
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,624

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Sorry, I didn't mean to mix up your posts here.

    But my first impression of your comment to your initial post of:

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It'd be nice if we didn't have $14mil in dead cap space...
    can come across as "complaining" when taken without any context or clarification.

    However, your follow up post of:

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I was merely thinking about how this Pacers team has attained the best record in the league, while operating with such a severe disadvantage with all of that money left on the table, not helping this current team.
    is far clearer to explain what the intent of your original post is.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-09-2013 at 01:57 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  32. #21
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    The Pacers currently have a salary number of 69,921,277. Danny makes 14,021,788. That means that without Danny, we'd have 55,899,489 committed to salary this year. The salary cap is 58,679,000, which means that if we'd dropped Danny it would have given us a whopping 2.7mil to play with. I'd much rather add Danny back to our 18-3 squad.

    Your expected response is to say "But I never advocated waiving Danny, I wanted us to trade him for something good." And then I remind you that "something good" in your opinion is Michael Beasley and Derrick Williams.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...r-Beasley-Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    beasely + #2 > granger. just the facts...
    If we'd made that move, we would still have dead cap space because those two guys are useless. I'd have rather have an injured Danny. Even on the bench, he's more valuable. Once he finishes rehabbing his torn calf, then there's no comparison.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  33. The Following User Says Thank You to Anthem For This Useful Post:


  34. #22
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    5,267

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Th thread was created to try and keep complaints regarding the "dead money" on our roster in one place, as opposed to arguing about the same topic within various threads (such as the post game thread)

    As for the idea of us having so much "dead money", we need to take into consideration the context of how things occurred.

    1. When Danny signed his contract, he was worth the money he received. It wasn't until last year that he had injury issues that were so bad it kept him out of large chunks of games. Yes we could have used injury information from his college days, but nobody is doing. This is a league of guarenteed contracts, and sometimes this is what happens when a player who's making pretty good money gets injured. He's coming off the books in the summer, so there's not much left to complain about.
    2. When we signed Copeland, he was going to be our backup PF. This was BEFORE we got Scola, and BEFORE we knew whether or not Plumlee would be able to consistently produce anything on a floor outside of the D-League. NY was pushing HARD to get Cope, and Bird had to make a deal with a player he wanted. It's a real shame as there were other pieces that may have fit better, but at the time backup 4 was something we needed, and Bird thought Copeland (coming off a pretty good season, and a nice few games against us in the playoffs) was the best option. His contract isn't huge, though it does suck to get so little from a new player.

  35. The Following User Says Thank You to Ace E.Anderson For This Useful Post:


  36. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,045

    Default Re: Dead Cap Space

    Something that annoys me is that when a great player goes down with a serious injury suddenly what was considered a great contract for his production before suddenly because overpriced, and a terrible contract that never should have been signed.

  37. The Following User Says Thank You to Eleazar For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •