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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    What we have witnessed this evening is the equivalent of seeing a unicorn or gathering hard physical evidence of the Loch Ness Monster. In other words something rare and beautiful that only happens once in a generation.

    To not only walk into their house and sneak away with a win but to actually stomp the living crap out of them for 2 & ½ quarters is almost unbelievable. In fact I am still trying to check to see if I dreamed that game or if this was something that I actually witnessed.

    With all do respect and apologies to our fellow Digest member Sam Bear this victory may have been my favorite so far this season and in fact it may go down as one of my favorites of all time. People facebook wasn’t even invented the last time we won down there. If you are 20 today you were 9 when we last won there. It seems like Haley’s comet returns to our solar system as often as we win there.

    But win there we did. Oh believe me it started out the same and I won’t lie, midway through the 1st quarter I was already telling my wife that we probably could stop watching live at half time and I would watch it later on DVR if she wanted to watch something else as I felt the blow out coming. Ha little did I know that the blow out would be coming from our end. Fortunately for me they started that turn around in the 2nd so I watched live all night.

    This was a team effort, of that there can be no doubt, but I would feel bad if we didn’t acknowledge that this all started by David West coming in for the totally inept Ian Mahinmi and taking over. Whether it was good matchup or David was exerting his will I can’t say for sure, it may have been a combination of the two for all I know, but that is where the turn around began and it never ended.

    While butterfingers (what’s the French translation for butterfingers) did nothing but foul and look foolish making me actually long for Jeff Ayers (Pendergraph) our team floundered. The moment West took over he went all Klingon Warrior on the Spurs and basically eviscerated Matt Bonner with forearms that were equal to Bat’leths. It wasn’t only on the offensive end that David dominated tonight on the defensive end he was destructive as a Bird of Prey (we’ve got a Star Trek theme going this evening). 3 steals and 2 Blocks to go along with 20 points and 8 boards? Are you kidding me? His performance does not merit a song it merits its own opera.

    This is why I’m going to go ahead and say it here and now. We are 20 games in and generally we stop and take time to review where we are at 20 and things we think need to be done or moves that need to be made but generally we like to say are we what our record say’s we are at 20.

    I’ll put my two cents in right here and right now.

    Yes, we are as good as our record says we are and I’m going to go ahead and use the hyperbole that I’m sure we all swore that we wouldn’t use going into the season (myself included).

    This is the best overall Pacers team I have ever seen and I have seen every single team since 1976 and I have seen every team live since 1985. This team is better than the mid 90’s team that I loved with all of my heart, they are better than the team that went to the finals and they are worlds away better than the 03/05 teams.

    Now before you chastise me and tell me to calm down and not put the cart before the horse and all of that stuff let me explain. I am going off of a 20 game sample so I am using that vs. 20 games by any of those teams and I’m telling you in my mind for the first 20 games of this season this team has played better than any of those teams did over a similar stretch of time. I’m not sure on records, in other words I don’t know if one of those teams had a stretch of 19-1 or something like that I only know that style of play and players this team can only be closely matched by the team that actually went to the finals.

    Why am I saying any of this? Simple tonight’s game was another example of why I believe this is the best Pacers team ever. While George did have a big game of scoring and West certainly had a big game as well look at that starting unit and then tell me where the weak link is? Either on offense or defense? There is nobody in that unit that we have to hide of defense (or claim that they are a good team defender but still have to cover them all of the time coughDunleavyCough). On offense on any given night in any given quarter all five of them can lead this team in scoring and there are NO ego’s that are out of control. I won’t say there are no ego’s because to be a player at that level you have to have an ego.

    Look everyone knows I loved Dale Davis but you could not throw Dale the rock and say take your man off of the dribble, or establish a post up game or hit the mid range shot or well basically score as your primary function. It wasn’t going to happen no matter how bad he tried and often times trying badly was the end result of this.

    Reggie Miller was the man for year after year after year on our team but I am fairly confident that he had it written into his contract that he was not required to rebound. On the other hand how many nights has Lance Stephenson led our team in boards? You also wouldn’t say Reggie go out there and play physical defense, ever.

    Ron Artest was a defensive stalwart and he even could score but he is not even in the same stratosphere as Paul George on defense and on offense it’s like comparing a Spanish Galleon to USS Ronald Reagan.

    Rik Smits was a great center for our club for a few years, he also was a stinker for awhile as well, and even though he was a good shot blocker (all time leader) he was not the defensive force that Roy Hibbert is and under no circumstance did I ever believe that Roy would turn into the rebounder that he has. I’m not sure Rik ever had the types of rebounding and defensive games that Roy has let alone seasons. Our entire defense is anchored by Roy while well let’s be honest our entire defense back then was anchored by Dale Davis. Did you realize that Roy Hibbert got 12 points on 4 shots tonight and not one of those 4 shots was a 3 point attempt? He went 3 of 4 from the field, that my friends is the definition of efficiency.

    While both Jamaal Tinsley & Mark Jackson could pass and dribble far better than what George Hill can neither of them could defend at even ½ the level that he can and only Mark Jackson was nearly as clutch as George. BTW to me that is high praise as I consider Mark one of the greatest point guards of all time.

    In other words player for player in the staring five they are absolutely the best I’ve ever seen.

    Bench, while improved, still needs something. Not sure what yet but I think we are one good player away. I know we won’t make any moves this year, nor do I really think they should because of chemistry issues, but I’ll be honest and say I wonder what we could get for a combination of Mahinmi & Copeland. Bah, le’s not dwell on this at all as we are 18-2.

    Say that again and feel damn proud of it 18-2 including going 3-1 so far in our 5 game W.C. road trip and we were in that Portland game till the very end. In other words we could lose 17 games in a row and still be above 500%.

    These are the good times; these are the times we band together and be proud of what we have. Look I more than anyone am guilty of looking for problems in hopes of solving them and hey as I type this I know that we may very well go to OKC and get our collective @sses kicked, but for tonight as a fan I’m going to celebrate something I never dreamed possible as the season started. I am going to celebrate the fact that we are the single undisputed best team in the entire NBA through the first 20 games. The next 62 though are of equal importance I know, but for tonight it’s time for all Pacers fans to unit in as one and shout.

    We are the **** of the walk and to paraphrase Denzel “King Kong’s got nothing on us”.

    As to grades I’m going to say this.

    All starter plus Luis Scola & C.J. Watson get A+’s

    All bench players minus Scola & Watson get F’s minus Mahinmi who get’s an F-.

    This was a hell of a victory for our club and whether or not it sends a message I don’t know but I do know this, we are FOR REAL.

    It’s time for the 20 game evaluation war cry.


    Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa



    To set the mood here is bring the noise by Anthrax and Public Enemy


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    I completely agree. On a fun to speculate note, I would like to see AD vs. Scola ;-). And yes I've been a fan for a few years shorter than you, but I agree. Best Pacers team ever. I'm sick of running into all time greats in their prime...MJ and then shaq/Kobe. Lets grab the bull by the horns and take down James in his prime. From King James to King George!!!!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by indy_nick View Post
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    I completely agree. On a fun to speculate note, I would like to see AD vs. Scola ;-). And yes I've been a fan for a few years shorter than you, but I agree. Best Pacers team ever. I'm sick of running into all time greats in their prime...MJ and then shaq/Kobe. Lets grab the bull by the horns and take down James in his prime. From King James to King George!!!!
    Damn straight, Preach it!!!!!


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Best Pacers team, since NBA defiantly, can't really speak to ABA as the Pacers have been in the NBA long than I have been alive. Yet, we are still missing a former all-star player, who is an ex-top 5 scorer, and competent (even good) defensive player who fills the holes we are missing perfectly and possibly more. This team could literally not have one weak link within its top 8 players. I honestly believe this team could be in the argument for best NBA team ever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    im not going to delve into to much of this because all are great points as usual. not truly ready to compare PG/ROY vs Miller era yet.

    you speculate on the bench missing something. one player I would take from that team would be Dale if I could not take Reggie obviously. to me DG33 is that Reggie cold blooded assassain this tema is missing.

    gimme Dale or Foster. as much as I like Mahimini at times, we need a bruiser at that backup center position.

    All that said GREAT WIN tonite. This has simply exceeded all expectations.

    Larry had to enjoy this win. not to get carried away but I believe we will crush the heat. hard to say OKC is a game we overlook sandwiched between SAS and heat.


    That's how you snap an 11 game losing streak.


    Go Pacers!!!!!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    HEAR THE DRUMMER GET WICKED!
    Last edited by Day-V; 12-08-2013 at 04:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    If you ever wanted to be proud as a Pacers fan watch this video from Spurs nation where the beat reporter for the San Antonio Express Just gush over the Pacers.

    http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...-in-the-mouth/


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    The fun thing about this game is if Frank had told PG to go score 40 tonight, he could have done it easily. This was just domination for more than half a game.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    While butterfingers (what’s the French translation for butterfingers)
    Empoté. I'm feeling helpful tonight
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    I'd been looking forward to this game all year. Our game at home against them last season (the one where Lance spun Tony Parker so hard he turned into Inside-Out Boy) was the first time I thought the Pacers were a real team. The Spurs ended up winning that game but we had a dominant stretch for a few minutes. Tonight was that dominant stretch extended for half and hour.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If you ever wanted to be proud as a Pacers fan watch this video from Spurs nation where the beat reporter for the San Antonio Express Just gush over the Pacers.

    http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...-in-the-mouth/
    The Spurs have a great organisation. Even their reporters are classy. The had a passing move in the first quarter that was unreal, I thought that a loss was certain but hoped for the Pacers not to give up and not get blown out. Is George Hill ok? Missed why he played so little in the second half.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If you ever wanted to be proud as a Pacers fan watch this video from Spurs nation where the beat reporter for the San Antonio Express Just gush over the Pacers.

    http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...-in-the-mouth/
    They are talking up Paul as being MVP candidate...superstar talk.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    It's appropriate that we get our (so far) biggest regular season win of the season on Bird's birthday. Legend is the one responsible for putting this masterpiece of a roster together, so this was a nice birthday gift for him.

    That's one of the best games I've ever seen West play. He drilled jumpers. He stripped balls. He played good defense. He helped get offensive rebounds. He had that beautiful block on Parker in the first half. He absolutely abused whoever was on him. He passed when he was doubled teamed, which led to beautiful ball movement and often a made jumper. When David West has these sort of games, we really cannot be beaten.

    I just LOVE the Scola-West combo, especially when Mahinmi is playing like a complete stiff. There was that one beautiful pass in the second half from West to Scola that comes to mind. These guys are just basketball players. It's that simple. Have you ever seen someone as happy as Luis Scola? This guy just seems to be smiling all the time. He's so happy and grateful for the opportunity he has on this elite team.

    Paul George has a superstar ability to hit ridiculous jumpers that only Lebron, Durant, I guess Melo, and a healthy Kobe have. Last year PG was a pretty good offensive player, but he still had somewhat of a ceiling to his offensive game. It wasn't until the Heat series that you really began to see his offensive game explode to another level. After another summer of hard work, he has reached the superstar ability to take over offensive games and make ridiculous jumpers. It's just beautiful. Having a player like that who we know can take over on the offensive game just makes us so much more dangerous.

    Glad Roy got going a bit more on the offensive end. I love seeing the Roy Olajuwon that we saw in the playoffs last year. That one jumper was absolutely nasty. Of course, his offense is always just icing on the cake. Everything with our team starts with his defensive presence.

    Those threes Lance hit were huge, and I loved that pass he had to West. He just continues to help us win.

    Did you see George Hill hug Pop and Manu and give some dap to all of the guy son the Spurs bench? This is why the Pacers traded for him. You simply cannot put a value on the fact that he grew up in a Spur organization with utmost professionals. He brought those winning traits here and they have rubbed off on all of the young guys on the team. He's just so damn clutch too. Loved that boost he had in the third quarter.

    Nothing this team does surprises me. They are super special.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-08-2013 at 12:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    I also think this will be the best Pacer team of all time and it would be fitting if they could hang a banner in BLF. Their style, attitude, make-up, grit and character suits me better than any team since the 94 & 95 group.

    I believe the bench will be fine come playoff time. An NBA bench is like an NFL offensive line. It takes time to jell and the coaches need time to figure out the best rotations. The thing I like about this bench is how positionally balanced it is which will allow Vogel to manage minutes and keep key players fresher for the playoffs.
    Last edited by Downtown Bang!; 12-08-2013 at 12:09 PM.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    If I have to point out a weak spot then I would have to say it is still Lance's inconsistency of approach. He's like the little girl who had a little curl right in the middle of her forehead - when she was good she was very very good but when she was bad she was horrid.

    The good thing is that we really don't see Bad Lance for entire games, just for stretches that sometimes seem like whole games. The bad thing is that as we get further into the season I think teams will figure out how to get him into that high dribble damn the torpedoes mode where he goes off the offense a little bit. That can be our secret weapon, but it is also our vulnerability because we don't have someone who can come in while Vogel calms Lance down.

    As far as best team ever, I am definitely coming around to that opinion. The thing I thought the late 90s teams often lacked was an every night killer instinct. This year, this team seems to want to not just win but to step on opponents' throats, no matter if they are the Heat or the Bobcats.

    When I am back home and where I can do some research more comfortably, I would like to do a comparison of this team to the ABA Pacer teams. I think it will fare very well, mainly because I kind of think of the ABA champ teams as being three killers and great other pieces that played together very well, but given that I think the players at their positions almost matched the 90s teams in how they played - and Peck has already pointed out how this team plays differently from those.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    I can't tell you what a joy it was to be sitting in an Oklahoma City sports bar watching this game (surrounded by a sea of raging Ohio football fans). We'd cheer at what seemed to them odd or inappropriate plays, until they saw our jerseys and glanced at our little screen. We lured some over to our side by the end of that wonderful game, and many of them wished us well when we toddled back to our hotel on a cloud of euphoria. My only wish for improvement through the whole game was the scary return of Energizer Bunny Lance. You can tell when he goes all street ball gonzo, and you never know if he's leading a rampage or down the rabbit hole.

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    I remember last year...so I have hope.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Ron Artest was a defensive stalwart and he even could score but he is not even in the same stratosphere as Paul George on defense.
    Let's not go crazy now...

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyAT View Post
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    I can't tell you what a joy it was to be sitting in an Oklahoma City sports bar watching this game (surrounded by a sea of raging Ohio football fans). We'd cheer at what seemed to them odd or inappropriate plays, until they saw our jerseys and glanced at our little screen. We lured some over to our side by the end of that wonderful game, and many of them wished us well when we toddled back to our hotel on a cloud of euphoria. My only wish for improvement through the whole game was the scary return of Energizer Bunny Lance. You can tell when he goes all street ball gonzo, and you never know if he's leading a rampage or down the rabbit hole.

    Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk

    How is OKC? I've been to the OKC Bombing Memorial (an absolute must see) when passing through, but I've never had the chance to actually explore the city. I've heard that Bricktown is nice.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    How is OKC? I've been to the OKC Bombing Memorial (an absolute must see) when passing through, but I've never had the chance to actually explore the city. I've heard that Bricktown is nice.
    We were in Bricktown for the Spurs game. It looks like it would be a cool place to be in nice weather (they're trying to use their canal as a sort of mini-Riverwalk). The sports bar we went to for the game was kind of men food and beer wise, the brewpub we tried first had OK but not spectacular beer, though the food looked like it might be good (we didn't eat there because they didn't have access to the game)

    At this point, I would rate Mass Ave and even the street side Circle Centre restaurant selection as better, but that is on just one visit.

    We're hitting the bombing memorial today and possibly the banjo museum then heading to Cattleman's with Gnome for dinner before the game.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Empoté. I'm feeling helpful tonight
    I am not sure of the pronunciation of this but that sure looks a lot like empty, which would really be appropriate to any offensive set he is involved in.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

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    I just LOVE the Scola-West combo
    Yes! Frank needs to tweak the rotations so we get a few minutes of this, whenever we have an opposing 5 that Scola can guard. Both have amazing hoops IQ and feel for where to be, what cut to make, what pass to make, and in general how to break down a D. Beautiful basketball!
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    We're hitting the bombing memorial today

    I've been to it twice and it's honestly one of the most touching and moving things I've ever seen in my life. You will feel very numb when you leave it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If you ever wanted to be proud as a Pacers fan watch this video from Spurs nation where the beat reporter for the San Antonio Express Just gush over the Pacers.

    http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...-in-the-mouth/
    Eh, sounds like he just doesn't follow the league that closely. Declaring PG an MVP contender or the Pacers a legit title contender in the East shows that he either hasn't been paying attention or can't talk. Not a slight, since most local reporters covering multiple sports are like that (and assume their audiences are like that). God help us if someone asks Quinn how the NBA season has been going and he has to give an answer longer than "pretty good".

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I've been to it twice and it's honestly one of the most touching and moving things I've ever seen in my life. You will feel very numb when you leave it.
    Yes. It started fairly typical, then you go into the room with the live recording of the hearing that was starting at the water board across the street and you hear the explosion. It gets pretty intense after that. An amazing tribute to the victims and to the responders and to the citizens of OKC.

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    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

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  41. #25
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Death, Taxes and losing to the Spur....um never mind (20 game evaluation as well)

    I just cannot get over just how great it is to have two, count em two, power forwards as good as West and Scola and the professionalism they bring not
    to mention there games. It puts such huge pressure on the other teams defense. Then throw in Paul and Hibbert and Hill and you have a juggernaut.
    18-2? Wow. If Danny ever gets his game together I could see a repeat of that famous Moses Malone 6ers team. Moses Malone is one of my favorites of all time.
    {o,o}
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