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Thread: The bench still isn't good enough

  1. #351
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    To bring a little relativity to this discussion.

    Last year the Pacers had 6 players total with a positive +/-. This year? 12. Only one player (Butler) has a negative.

    Miami has 2 with negative.
    SA has 3.
    OKC has 3. (And one with a neutral)
    Portland has 4.
    GSW has 7.
    Hou has 5.
    LAC has 5.
    Mem has 9.


    I'm not saying the Pacers have the best bench in the league, but when your bench is on average increasing your lead size, it's quite funny having to read through the amounts of complaints that get leveled their way.
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    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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  3. #352

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Watson plays 20 mpg, Scola plays 19 mpg, Ian plays 15 mpg, OJ plays 14 mpg, Granger has yet to come back, and this thread is 15 pages deep? The joys of being 20-3.

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  5. #353

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So Larry Bird is doing the same thing some of us are doing on an internet forum, somebody should tell him just to be happy and buy the damn championship rings already.
    Quick, question. Which of these statements best summarizes your opinion as of 12/16/13:

    1) The bench is fatally flawed. If the Pacers don't improve the quality of the bench, they are incapable of winning a title.

    2) The bench is highly flawed. The Pacers still might win a title, but the odds are very low and the bench is the biggest reason why.

    3) The Pacers are strong title contenders, but the bench could be better with a reasonable trade or two.

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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    Quick, question. Which of these statements best summarizes your opinion as of 12/16/13:

    1) The bench is fatally flawed. If the Pacers don't improve the quality of the bench, they are incapable of winning a title.

    2) The bench is highly flawed. The Pacers still might win a title, but the odds are very low and the bench is the biggest reason why.

    3) The Pacers are strong title contenders, but the bench could be better with a reasonable trade or two.
    Read my posts from the beginning of the thread my suggestion is to get at least 2 more pieces for the bench, Watson and Scola are great, Ian is meh and the rest of the guys I hope we don't get to see them again.

    My answer is 3 because I think we are contenders but I think we can be better, as Jalen Rose said I think the Pacers need a microwave kind of guy off the bench and nope I don't think DG is that guy, we also need a better backup center.

  7. #355

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Read my posts from the beginning of the thread my suggestion is to get at least 2 more pieces for the bench, Watson and Scola are great, Ian is meh and the rest of the guys I hope we don't get to see them again.

    My answer is 3 because I think we are contenders but I think we can be better, as Jalen Rose said I think the Pacers need a microwave kind of guy off the bench and nope I don't think DG is that guy, we also need a better backup center.
    I thought that was the case. I agree with you. I think most of the people in this thread (if not all people) would also choose option 3.

    This thread started to get into a cat fight because of a simple logical disconnect. I, personally, read a thread titled "The bench still isn't good enough", and I assumed that anyone who agrees with the premise of the thread have a "1" attitude (as outlined above). As in, the bench isn't good enough to win a title, period. That seems insane, and that is where the friction comes from.

    I would venture to guess that everyone here would agree with statement "3". But they way some posters have approached the topic, they seem like they are communicating statement "1". Which is a logical conclusion (if you ask me) in the context of a thread about whether or not the bench is good enough.

    Am I wrong? Does anyone agree with statement "1" or "2"?

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  9. #356
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    EVERY team has flaws, that's the point... We like to take the Pacers flaws and take the molehills and turn them into Mt Everest. If the only way not to *****, is to have something perfect, then well, you're making my point about people not being happy unless they're complaining.

    It would be like Heat fans complaining about them signing Oden. I can just hear you guys now, if that was the case. "Damnit, I really wanted a 3peat. Why did they have to waste a roster spot on a player like Greg. I will be so pissed off if they don't get that third ring because they signed Oden intead of this other bum. My life is horrible!"
    I love reading message boards of opposing teams and you cannot imagine the amount of stupid things that I have read. I've read Spurs fans complaining about signing Pendergraph. I have read Spurs fans doubting their team's record because "they lost against top 3 teams" and blaming Popovich that "he's only a good regular season coach and fails in the playoffs". I've read Heat fans *****ing constantly about Spoelstra because he plays Battier instead of Beasley. Heck, I have read them complain about LeBron only taking 14 shots in a game. And yes, some of them do complain about Riley signing Oden.

    Some people will just find a reason to complain about everything, just like you said. It doesn't matter which team they support. Some people will always complain and others will almost never complain. It doesn't even have to do with the team, imo. It has to do with the person in question.
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  11. #357
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    I cannot believe that no one has mentioned how little the contributions from our 15th man have been. He's been practically invisible.

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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    I cannot believe that no one has mentioned how little the contributions from our 15th man have been. He's been practically invisible.
    No kidding he doesn't even contribute in practice....

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  15. #359
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Back to what vnzla was saying about Orlando, I felt a lot more confident with the ball in his hand earlier in the year. It seemed to me that he was consistently attacking the rim, and although they looked like tough shots, putting it in more times than not. Now it seems like he has abandoned that recently, and instead has decided to look for his jumpshot, which has been consistently terrible.

    Last year, I was confident with an Orlando 3. This year, not so much. I think its just a matter of getting out of his funk. He is a more than capable 40% three point shooter in my mind.

    EDIT: Also wanted to add, the second unit does not generally put Orlando in as good of a situation as he would like. Earlier in the year, it seemed like he was playing with more starters out there, now it seems its just Lance.
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  17. #360
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave View Post
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    I thought that was the case. I agree with you. I think most of the people in this thread (if not all people) would also choose option 3.

    This thread started to get into a cat fight because of a simple logical disconnect. I, personally, read a thread titled "The bench still isn't good enough", and I assumed that anyone who agrees with the premise of the thread have a "1" attitude (as outlined above). As in, the bench isn't good enough to win a title, period. That seems insane, and that is where the friction comes from.

    I would venture to guess that everyone here would agree with statement "3". But they way some posters have approached the topic, they seem like they are communicating statement "1". Which is a logical conclusion (if you ask me) in the context of a thread about whether or not the bench is good enough.

    Am I wrong? Does anyone agree with statement "1" or "2"?
    Good post (I'm a 3). I think I'd be more comfortable if the thread had been titled "the bench still has room for improvement" instead of "The bench still isn't good enough."

    Because hey, the bench may in fact be good enough for us to win a title! It's definitely much much better than last year IMO. But at the same time, there is nothing wrong at all with continuing to look for upgrades.

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  19. #361
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by rabid View Post
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    Good post (I'm a 3). I think I'd be more comfortable if the thread had been titled "the bench still has room for improvement" instead of "The bench still isn't good enough."

    Because hey, the bench may in fact be good enough for us to win a title! It's definitely much much better than last year IMO. But at the same time, there is nothing wrong at all with continuing to look for upgrades.
    That's a stance that I can totally agree with. I do believe that we're fine as we currently are but I wouldn't say no to a potential upgrade. It's always good to look for something better.

    The only thing that I disagree with is the constant negativity that some players receive (not aimed towards you, of course). That's all.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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  21. #362
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    I cannot believe that no one has mentioned how little the contributions from our 15th man have been. He's been practically invisible.
    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    No kidding he doesn't even contribute in practice....
    You guys are so negative. Look at the bright side: he's not said anything stupid to the press, and he's not a problem in the locker room.
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  23. #363
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Danny looks rusty.
    Not much elevation yet.
    Likely is just a little shy until he plays awhile and gains confidence.

    We can already see though that he's going to fit nicely.
    He is obviously willing to pass now.
    Nobody will be able to give him space. It should open up passing lanes.

    I think we have a very nice bench now!

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  25. #364
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    The bench looks much better with even a rusty Danny. Hopefully he can stay healthy.

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  27. #365
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    1) Our bench with Granger is pretty damn good. I was thinking last night, when we subbed in, that I wasn't worried about much. It's pretty awesome when you take your starters out and in their place comes CJ Watson, Granger, Scola, and Mahinmi. Hell, that foursome is about equivalent to our starting unit from a few years ago. There's a drop-off, but it's not a bleeding sore like it was last year.
    2) I still have a feeling that Granger sightings will be fleeting this year. I just get the feeling we'll see him get sore again and miss time. I really hope not. He makes this team that much stronger.
    3) Granger didn't look half bad last night, in just his movement, and his ball-movement, and decision-making. He just looked a little rusty, but overall I was impressed. It's not easy to miss that much time and come out and look like you belong, but he basically did. His shots weren't falling, but they will.
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The bench looks much better with even a rusty Danny. Hopefully he can stay healthy.
    Yes and yes. With Scola, Granger, Watson and Lance or PG playing with the backups...we have another starting unit out there. Very deep and very good.

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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    2) I still have a feeling that Granger sightings will be fleeting this year. I just get the feeling we'll see him get sore again and miss time. I really hope not. He makes this team that much stronger.
    If he can make it to late January, I will gain some confidence he'll be around in May and June. I will also gain a signature on a bet. But that's fine. I want Granger to succeed wildly. I just can't put my eggs in that basket.

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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    I didn't see anything from Danny last night to make me think that his presence makes the bench that much better, sure it looks great in paper but was he really better than whatever Rasual Butler was giving us in the past 3 games? I don't think so.

    I'm not trying to put DG down like I said before this was expected but again this thread is about the bench and in my opinion we still need to make some moves, we still need a better backup center and a guy that can create his own shot.

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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I didn't see anything from Danny last night to make me think that his presence makes the bench that much better, sure it looks great in paper but was he really better than whatever Rasual Butler was giving us in the past 3 games? I don't think so.
    I think he was spacing the floor better than Butler, if for no other reason than defenders were staying out to guard him. Of course he needs to start hitting shots for that to continue.

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  34. #370

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Luis Scola is the best bench player in the league IMO

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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I didn't see anything from Danny last night to make me think that his presence makes the bench that much better, sure it looks great in paper but was he really better than whatever Rasual Butler was giving us in the past 3 games? I don't think so.

    I'm not trying to put DG down like I said before this was expected but again this thread is about the bench and in my opinion we still need to make some moves, we still need a better backup center and a guy that can create his own shot.
    Didnt you see that nice deflection in the 1st Q in the corner? So quick, that for a guy who has had not any game rythem the last seasons? And what about that lob pass to Hibbert for a easy bunny (but missed), good boxing out on every chance he got, a couple of very nice 1 on 1 fake jumpshots led to a nice pass to a inside guy (this will really add to this team IMO since we have problems finding the inside guys. And what about his first three? And oh yeah, did you see that block?

    And, man, did you notice how the crowd gets behind this team when Granger does a couple of those things, even when missing a couple of shots? Well they get wild! Thats getting in momentum quite easy..

    And all that in his first game after a while.. So to answer your question: yes i think so. And it will only get better. Making the need for a backup Center less imported since we will get some extra scoring from our back-up wing and Ian will just do fine as an defender. He had some big defensive plays btw yesterday!
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  38. #372
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by rabid View Post
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    I think he was spacing the floor better than Butler, if for no other reason than defenders were staying out to guard him. Of course he needs to start hitting shots for that to continue.
    Danny made several passes that lead to an assist pass.
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  40. #373
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    The bench is good enough.
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  42. #374
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I didn't see anything from Danny last night to make me think that his presence makes the bench that much better, sure it looks great in paper but was he really better than whatever Rasual Butler was giving us in the past 3 games? I don't think so.

    I'm not trying to put DG down like I said before this was expected but again this thread is about the bench and in my opinion we still need to make some moves, we still need a better backup center and a guy that can create his own shot.
    I think that it will take more than two games for Danny and our bench to get a more accurate assessment. IMO...
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I didn't see anything from Danny last night to make me think that his presence makes the bench that much better, sure it looks great in paper but was he really better than whatever Rasual Butler was giving us in the past 3 games? I don't think so.
    He can do a lot more with the basketball then Butler ever could. He commands attention just because the fact that he's Danny Granger.

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