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Thread: The bench still isn't good enough

  1. #176
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Powww View Post
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    Then his free throw shooting, FFS hit one of them at least.
    He shoots .676 from the free throw line, which is better than one out of two. Could be better, but a quick look through FT% for C he seems to be about average. Roy is one of the better free throw shooters for the C position at 77.6%, which for C who have had at least 20 FTA is ranked 10th. I would say we are lucky that our back-up C shoots that well.

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  3. #177
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Iain is the new Tyler this season. lol.

    I think he gave us solid mins tonite. outside of the loose ball blockout bobble foul.

    foul calls were bad all game.

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  5. #178

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Iain is the new Tyler this season. lol.

    I think he gave us solid mins tonite. outside of the loose ball blockout bobble foul.

    foul calls were bad all game.
    Quality minutes?

    We don't need to be throwing out lines like this


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  7. #179
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    Quality minutes? WTF game did you watch?
    One where the play of Paul, George, David, and Luis had more of a negative impact than anything Ian did.

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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    Quality minutes? WTF game did you watch?
    We must look for different things in Centers. Ian was really good tonight IMO his defense was huge. He had a nice bounce back. I though he was pretty poor on the road trip, but tonight was much better.

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  10. #181

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    We must look for different things in Centers. Ian was really good tonight IMO his defense was huge. He had a nice bounce back. I though he was pretty poor on the road trip, but tonight was much better.
    I suspect he was watching the way Ian played instead of looking at the outcomes of that play. Ian has an awkward style that looks worse than it really is. Ian is the anti-Paul George, awkward and uneven instead of smmoooth.

    Ian is a good example of a guy that needs to be judged by his stats instead of the eye test. He will fail the eye test even when he plays well because of his style, or rather lack of same.

  11. #182

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    The team defense stats last night for when Mahinmi was in the game.

    2nd Quarter. Mahinimi was in for 6:12. Miami scored 8 points during that time on 11 possessions. They went 2-9 from the floor, 0-2 from the three point line, and 4-6 from the free throw line.

    3rd-4th quarter. Mahinmi was in for 4:28. Miami scored 9 points during that time on 7 possessions. They went 4-9 from the field, 0-1 from the three point line, and 1-1 from the free throw line.

    So a total of 10:40 with 17 points on 18 possessions, 6-18 from the field, 0-3 from the three point line, and 5-7 from the line. That's pretty good. Obviously that doesn't isolate Mahinmi's personal contribution on the game, but it does show that the Heat still struggled offensively even when Hibbert sat.

  12. #183

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Here is a link to a "live box score" with all of the plays from last night:

    http://stats.nba.com/gameDetail.html?GameID=0021300311

    Also, here is the play-by-play, again with links to video of each play:

    http://stats.nba.com/gameDetail.html...311#playbyplay

    You know, if we want to have an "eye based" conversation instead of relying on filthy, lying stats.

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  14. #184
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    So Ian was good yesterday? Lol..... yeah this conversation is over.

  15. #185
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So Ian was good yesterday? Lol..... yeah this conversation is over.
    The problem with the "conversation" is that "didn't suck" DOESN'T equal "good" in anyone's mind but yours. I think most people would think of Ian as being adequate with bad moments, which is a far cry from thinking anyone else in the NBA would be an improvement (or, conversely, that he was good).
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  17. #186

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So Ian was good yesterday? Lol..... yeah this conversation is over.
    I would argue that you never participated in it to begin with (save your list of back up centers, which was a valuable contribution that I authentically appreciated), but you are welcome to remove yourself as the rest of us talk basketball.

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  19. #187
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    From Peck odd thoughts:
    Ian Mahinmi: F- What went wrong here? He used to at least be able to help defend the paint but that now more often than not results in a foul. He has been a problem now for a few weeks and it scares the crap out of me whenever Roy goes to the bench. God I wish we would have kept a competent 3rd big man on the roster, we could have even kept Butler as well since you can have 15 players. I used to really like Ian but lately I’ve been scouring the D league roster trying to come up with someone/ anyone who can do some emergency min.
    Yes Ian was horrible.

  20. #188

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Here is a great play to talk about:

    Wade 1' Layup (4 PTS)

    Lots of stuff happening here. Lance tries to cut off the fast break. Wade gets around easily, and Stephenson compounds the error by going for the desperate steal. Now we have a crisis in semi-transition, a 5-on-4 with Wade as the ball handler.

    Ian has to keep an eye on Lewis on the arc, and the Miami shooters dart to the corners. That leaves Scola to guard both Birdman and Wade alone.

    Birdman sees this and plows into Scola, taking him out of the play (and commits an offensive foul in the process, but Hibbert does the same thing all the time for West & Paul so whatever). Watson tries to help, but abandons the play when the layup seems likely, preferring to cut of the pass into the corner for a potential open 3.

    Mahinmi has a chance to ditch Lewis, run along the baseline, and contest the layup - but he is too late.

    So, the question is: Was Ian right to stick to Lewis? Did he have a realistic shot at contesting the layup?

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  22. #189

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Here are the four Mahinmi fouls from last night:

    Mahinmi P.FOUL (P1.T4)
    Mahinmi S.FOUL (P2.PN) @
    Mahinmi L.B.FOUL (P3.PN) @
    Mahinmi S.FOUL (P4.PN)

    Here are all of the shots within 10' when Mahinmi was on the court:

    Wade 1' Layup (4 PTS)
    MISS Andersen 3' Layup *
    Cole 2' Driving Reverse Layup (4 PTS) (Wade 3 AST)
    MISS Andersen 5' Jump Shot *
    Stephenson S.FOUL (P2.T3)
    MISS Wade 6' Jump Shot
    Cole 4' Driving Layup (7 PTS)
    MISS James 1' Layup


    A * denotes a couple of particularly good Mahinmi plays, and a @ denotes a couple of especially bad Ian plays.

    Thoughts?

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  24. #190
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    From the play by play:
    6:04
    Mahinmi P.FOUL (P1.T4)
    6:04
    SUB: Bosh FOR Lewis
    5:50
    Mahinmi S.FOUL (P2.PN)
    5:50
    PACERS Timeout: Regular (Full 2 Short 0)
    5:50
    SUB: Hill FOR Watson
    5:50
    SUB: James FOR Allen
    5:50
    [ 29 - 37 ]
    Wade Free Throw 1 of 2 (7 PTS)
    5:50
    SUB: George FOR Johnson
    5:50
    MISS Wade Free Throw 2 of 2
    5:49
    Andersen REBOUND (Off:1 Def:1)
    5:48
    Mahinmi L.B.FOUL (P3.PN)
    5:48
    MISS Andersen Free Throw 1 of 2
    5:48
    Heat Rebound
    5:48
    SUB: Hibbert FOR Mahinmi
    5:48
    3 fouls in less than 20 seconds that should be some kind of record.


    And then as soon as he comes in he fouls again but this time he gives Anderson a 3 point play then he gets fouled and misses both of his free throws:

    2:06
    SUB: Mahinmi FOR Hibbert
    2:06
    SUB: Watson FOR Hill
    1:55
    MISS James 24' 3PT Jump Shot
    1:54
    West REBOUND (Off:2 Def:7)
    1:35
    [ 65 - 59 ]
    George 24' 3PT Jump Shot (11 PTS) (Johnson 1 AST)
    1:19
    West P.FOUL (P3.T4)
    1:14
    [ 65 - 61 ]
    Andersen 2' Driving Layup (5 PTS) (Cole 3 AST)
    1:14
    Mahinmi S.FOUL (P4.PN)
    1:14
    [ 65 - 62 ]
    Andersen Free Throw 1 of 1 (6 PTS)
    0:55
    [ 68 - 62 ]
    George 24' 3PT Jump Shot (14 PTS) (West 4 AST)
    0:42
    [ 68 - 64 ]
    Cole 4' Driving Layup (7 PTS)
    0:21
    Lewis S.FOUL (P4.PN)
    0:21
    MISS Mahinmi Free Throw 1 of 2
    0:21
    PACERS Rebound
    0:21
    MISS Mahinmi Free Throw 2 of 2
    It also looks like Hibbert had to come in early because of Mahinmi, Ian is playing well and Roy gets more rest(see Scola/Watson)

    9:38
    SUB: Hibbert FOR Mahinmi
    Last edited by vnzla81; 12-11-2013 at 11:20 AM.

  25. #191
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Is Ian even important enough to argue over? We're 19-3. Be merry!

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  27. #192
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Fouls are stats, and we all know that stats are irrelevant.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  28. #193
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Is Ian even important enough to argue over? We're 19-3. Be merry!
    Better than talking about Danny Granger.

  29. #194
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough



    I thought the conversation was over, yet on it goes... Hmm....


  30. #195
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Is Ian even important enough to argue over? We're 19-3. Be merry!
    Yes, we wouldn't be 19-3 with Lou Admundson as our back-up C.

  31. #196

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Good Stuff
    First of all, I appreciate this. This is what I'm talking about. This is valuable stuff.

    Second, Mahinmi's little foul party in the second quarter was fine. The first foul was fine (he got caught hedging too hard), but the other two were really bad.

    You mentioned the Birdman And-1. Here is the play:

    http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID...ameEventID=361

    Watson falls asleep on the inbounds pass and allows Cole to go baseline. Mahinmi picks him up and forces the pass. He spins while the pass is in the air and can't get out of the restricted area or square his shoulders over his feet in time. Birdman gets the bucket and the foul.

    How would you asses Ian's defense in the play? Should he have done something differently?

  32. #197
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavaDave;1750121[/QUOTE
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    How would you asses Ian's defense in the play? Should he have done something differently?
    Hey thanks for the video I didn't know you could get those.

    On the play I think Ian is overplaying Cole there is not need for him to almost block Watson, as soon as he did that the defense got out of position and the AND1 happened, Ian kind of reminds me of David Harrison his excitement a lot of times when on his way.

  33. #198

    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Sorry apparently an acronym of WTF is a offensive on these boards. But really, if you think Mahimi contributed anything positive yesterday then you're just never going to find fault with anything he does, because that was one of the worst 11 minutes anyone has played on this team so far this year. The announcers took notice and mentioned how poorly he was playing, people on these boards commented on this and other threads as soon as he went to the bench about how poor he was.

    But, because three point shooters and mid-range shots started missing that he had no effect on "man, his defense really was awesome, look at their shooting %!!!" Be real, he was bad last night.

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  35. #199
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    I just know that I love getting on PD in the morning after a big win to read posts *****ing about the backup center. In years past, the Pacers would get a big win and we'd have people going overboard with excitement, now it's ho-hum let's look for small criticisms and blow them up.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  37. #200
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: The bench still isn't good enough

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    But, because three point shooters and mid-range shots started missing that he had no effect on "man, his defense really was awesome, look at their shooting %!!!" Be real, he was bad last night.
    Really? WHO said he was "awesome"? In fact the very post you seem to be referring to specifically stated it said nothing about how Ian did individually, just that it wasn't as much of a problem for the team as people seem to be thinking.

    There is a lot of area between "sucks and should never see the floor" and "is awesome a #1 center in the league", and some of that includes things like "below average", "ok in some areas and horrible in others", and "not the worst". It grinds my gears that anyone trying to make a reasonable assessment gets accused of being a jocker or hater, like the only opinions allowed are that someone is the best or that they are the worst.

    Can we please stop labeling people with differing opinions as blind idiots or extrapolating a "wait, this part wasn't so bad" into "OMFG HE'S AMAZING I WANT TO HAVE HIS BABIES"?

    I mean, really, the part of the discussion between vnzla81 and FlavaDave is the ABSOLUTE RIGHT WAY TO DO THIS. Example and counter example without anyone (so far) calling anyone names.
    BillS

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