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Thread: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

  1. #1

    Default Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    At this point in the season, prior to the trade deadline, there are only 5 teams with a realistic chance to win the championship: The Thunder, Heat, Spurs, Trailblazers, and Pacers.

    So what improvements do the Pacers need to rise above the other 4 contenders? Let's looks for potential improvements using meta-stat analysis. (I'll limit this analysis to only 2 meta-stats. If you know of other helpful ones, feel free to post them.)

    Hollinger Team Statistics:
    Offensive Efficiency and Defensive Efficiency

    Oklahoma - Off: 5; Def: 3; Total: 8
    Miami - Off: 2; Def: 7; Total: 9
    San Antonio - Off: 7; Def: 2; Total: 9
    Indiana - Off: 16; Def: 1; Total: 17
    Portland - Off: 1; Def: 22; Total: 23

    http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/order/true
    http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/tea...ff/order/false

    Obviously the Pacers need to improve their offense more than their defense.

    Now let's see which position the Pacers need to improve the most.

    Pacers PER vs. Opponents' PER:
    Net Production by Position

    PG: -0.8
    SG: 3.4
    SF: 7.8
    PF: 4.7
    C: 2.2
    (Includes offense and defense for starters and backups.)
    http://www.82games.com/1314/1314IND5.HTM

    Obviously the Pacers weakest position is point guard. Combining the team's low offensive efficiency with the low point guard production, it appears the Pacers need a better offensive point guard.

    It's unlikely the Pacers could trade George Hill's $8 million contract. So that leaves them with Hill, Watson, and Stephenson. Who among those 3 has the most potential to improve the offense? By far, Lance!

    Lance's passing is better than Hill or Watson. But his concentration and consistency are questionable. Yet he appears to have turned a corner the last few games by playing very consistent.

    Several forum members have complained about Hill's inability to stay in front of opposing point guards. So my question is, who could guard the point better: Hill or Lance?

    P.S. Maybe Hill would guard the SG, or he would move to 6th man while Granger would start? The big debate here has been who should start: Danny or Lance? Maybe a better question is, "Who should start: Hill or Danny?"

    P.P.S. Congrats to Paul George rated #1 in the NBA On Court - Off Court Simple Ratings. (These ratings favor teams with winning records.) http://www.82games.com/1314/ROLRTG8.HTM
    Last edited by Greg; 12-22-2013 at 08:02 PM.

  2. #2
    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Not a good idea to have a scorer as a PG (ex. Allen Iverson)
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Welcome CJ Miles! BlueCollarColts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Not sure about on defense, but I like Lance better for point on offense

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Not a good idea to have a scorer as a PG (ex. Allen Iverson)
    I don't...what even....huh

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    What you are failing to take into consideration is the talent each player is going up against. It is often said that the PG position is the most talented position in the league right now, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the PG position has the worst +/- PER.

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Well let's start by seeing if he can stay with some of the big points that run over Hill.

    But it's hard to see Lance staying in front of the smaller quicker guys as well.

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Not a good idea to have a scorer as a PG (ex. Allen Iverson)
    I couldn't disagree more.


    I would of loved to have Allen Iverson as my pg. The only issue is having scoring pg's (or pass first pg's for that matter) who can't play.


    Give me Russell Westbrook all day over a Grevis Vasquez. Hell give me little Pizza Guy over Grevis Vasquez having scoring pgs isn't a bad thing. There is more than one way to skin a cat.


    That statement really is

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Not a good idea to have a scorer as a PG (ex. Allen Iverson)
    Mr. Westbrook would like to speak with you. So would the finals bound OKC Thunder.

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    If it's not broke don't fix it....

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Not a good idea to have a terribly inefficient, high volume, shot-chucking scorer as a PG (ex. Allen Iverson)
    I added a few important considerations
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Mr. Westbrook would like to speak with you. So would the finals bound OKC Thunder.
    Also, there's this new kid playing for the Spurs... Tony something. He sometimes scores a bit, but their team seems to be surviving it ok.

    I don't know how a team like Portland survives having such offensively talented players at the point. I wonder what would happen if we played them.
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    All of the stats and numbers don't make much difference to me. I like GH guarding other PG's if they are not the larger and stronger PG's of the league. The games where we are going to try to adjust are the teams with bigger and stronger PG's. In that case I like Lance guarding them and GH guarding the 2 guard with someone looking to double team the 2 guard if he is going through GH too easily. As far as bringing the ball up it really is a mute point because I see Lance and PG bringing the ball up the ball as much as GH.

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    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Not a good idea to have a scorer as a PG (ex. Allen Iverson)
    None of the teams that currently have the 5 best records in the NBA have a pass-first PG. Westbrook, Parker and Lillard are scoring PGs while Hill and Chalmers are 3 & D PGs that play alongside facilitating wings.
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    There is also that rookie in Philly who is WAY Good,

    Anyway I would like to see Lance guard some point guards and if he can guard them I would like to see him start as the pg.

    1st the pacers are better when he is bringing up the ball but 2nd I think George Hill is better as a SG use him in the 6th man toll and tell him to be aggressive from the moment he comes in. Its his natural position and I think he would score more.

    Can you imagine a Lance, PG, Danny, BAMF, Mt Hibbert starting unit!

  23. #15
    Indiana Pacers Forever Pacer Fan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Hill
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Lance has a hard time fighting through the pick and roll against quicker players like Avery Bradley. Hell Courtney Lee had open jumpers. I don't think it is a lack of effort. He just has some girth. Iso he isn't horrible against point guards. But throw him through screens and picks and he isn't as effective and Hill.
    Hill is the type of point guard we need. It has taken me a couple of years to come around. But I am there. Point guards that would fit the system is Lowry, Chalmers, Avery, Westbrook, Jrue Holiday, or a 3 point shooting, keep them out of the paint, but isn't a great facilitator.

    JRue and Russel are the only clear upgrades and frankly we can't keep Lance with them so the system would need to be reseted.

    Lets ride it out. Is that really a bad thing?

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    We are built to beat Miami. As a result, our money is invested in our front court. Our guards can hang with most of the backcourts we play against. Besides, Detroit, nobody can matchup against Roy, West, and PG.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Who best guards Westbrook & KD?
    Lance and Paul?
    Or Paul and Danny?
    Judging from what I've seen I think either may be better than
    Hill and PG.
    Last edited by solid; 12-23-2013 at 10:53 AM. Reason: clarity

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    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Are we really talking about making a major change to improve our historically great defense?

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Lance has a hard time fighting through the pick and roll against quicker players like Avery Bradley. Hell Courtney Lee had open jumpers. I don't think it is a lack of effort. He just has some girth. Iso he isn't horrible against point guards. But throw him through screens and picks and he isn't as effective and Hill.
    Hill is the type of point guard we need. It has taken me a couple of years to come around. But I am there. Point guards that would fit the system is Lowry, Chalmers, Avery, Westbrook, Jrue Holiday, or a 3 point shooting, keep them out of the paint, but isn't a great facilitator.

    JRue and Russel are the only clear upgrades and frankly we can't keep Lance with them so the system would need to be reseted.

    Lets ride it out. Is that really a bad thing?
    None of our wings are all that great at getting through screens. Paul is decent, but could be better. Watching Lance, Orlando, and Granger try to run through screens makes me wish we had someone like Brandon Rush. He was great at staying with a guy through a screen. I remember in the Chicago series at the end of a half Vogel would put Rush in on Korver. He would run around a million screens, but Rush was always glued to him tighter than conjoined twins.

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Are we really talking about making a major change to improve our historically great defense?
    Yeah, this was my thought exactly.

    The thought around here seems to go, "Lance is a better distributor, he must be the point guard!"

    Note: I know the OP wasn't trying for this and actually brought defense to the forefront and used stats and such for comparison, which I appreciate. My comment was more around the hive minded mentality we see on this board regarding this issue.

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    Default Re: Who Would Guard the Point Better: Hill or Lance?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Yeah, this was my thought exactly.

    The thought around here seems to go, "Lance is a better distributor, he must be the point guard!"

    Note: I know the OP wasn't trying for this and actually brought defense to the forefront and used stats and such for comparison, which I appreciate. My comment was more around the hive minded mentality we see on this board regarding this issue.

    I totally agree. This is starting to get a little ridiculous. It seems that some people will never be happy until Lance is named the starting Point Guard. Never mind the fact that he's already running the offense more than Hill is now. I love it that Lance can pass the ball and there's no denying that he's a better passer than George Hill but that doesn't mean that the Pacers need to make a change to the starting lineup. They're 22-5 with this lineup as is and GH is finally coming out of his shooting slump.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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