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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

  1. #76

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    No recent controversies.
    Sadly, I think this one only works if the team HAS had issues lately. And (thankfully) nothing is going on here that the mediots can fill time with. In NY, you have the Kidd issue(s), Carmelo being a whiny guy, the teams suck .......... all that is media friendly and the more they talk about a team (doesn't matter if it's actually bball related) the more people will watch. most of the marketing is not for true fans. It's to lure the fence-sitters in.

  2. #77
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So which factors in that list do the Knicks and Nets best the Pacers in?

    Not quality of team.
    Not playoff round.
    No recent controversies.

    The only one that's applicable is TV market size. The Pacers even have the best player out of the 3 teams, and that argument was starting to go PG's way before the schedule was ever made.
    Go back to July. Nets and Knicks have more star players. The Nets have very recognizable stars and a team that is just coming together so they are new, so that is a draw also. Melo bigger star than PG back in July. KG and PP better known than PG back in July. Nets got a lot of media coverage because of their huge salary payouts.

    All that factors in and makes the Nets and Knicks seem like a bigger draw than the pacers back in July.

  3. #78
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    So "stars" who lose in round 1, are a better option than an ECF team with the youngest superstar in the league. The NBA, where broken hips happen.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Sadly, I think this one only works if the team HAS had issues lately. And (thankfully) nothing is going on here that the mediots can fill time with. In NY, you have the Kidd issue(s), Carmelo being a whiny guy, the teams suck .......... all that is media friendly and the more they talk about a team (doesn't matter if it's actually bball related) the more people will watch. most of the marketing is not for true fans. It's to lure the fence-sitters in.
    Fence sitters are going to be drawn in with bad basketball and stupid drama?
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    I can't wait for the TV ratings for tomorrow's snoozefest, and see just how popular these teams really are.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  7. #81
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Go back to July. Nets and Knicks have more star players. The Nets have very recognizable stars and a team that is just coming together so they are new, so that is a draw also. Melo bigger star than PG back in July. KG and PP better known than PG back in July. Nets got a lot of media coverage because of their huge salary payouts.

    All that factors in and makes the Nets and Knicks seem like a bigger draw than the pacers back in July.

    Which would be acceptable if the Knicks had something like 5 ABC games to our 3.

    But a 6 to 0 ratio? Completely indefensible, IMHO.

    The league is DESPERATE for their to be a big time team in New York; so desperate that they give them 6 ABC games to our 0 when we waxed them in the playoffs and then took the Heat to 7 games. This league is completely inept at marketing team quality. It operates as if their are only 5 teams in the league. The Knicks' recognizable "star" is someone who has only been to the Conference Finals once in his 10 year career. A great scorer, yes, but his teams always come up short in the playoffs. The Knicks have never had a "star" in the mold of a Jordan/Lebron/Shaq/Kobe/Bird/Magic. Their "stars" are always second tier.

    If you're arguing that teams like the Knicks draw fans, then why not give the Pacers an ABC game or two against them or the Heat? It's almost as if the NBA is deliberately punishing the Pacers for taking out the Knicks and ruining their blatantly obvious hopes of a Heat-Knicks ECF's. They wanted to trump up the Garden atmosphere and the fact that it would have been the first ECF's at MSG in 13 years. They wanted to hype up the 2003 draft class angle: Melo vs three other members of the 03 draft class (Lebron, Wade, Bosh). They wanted to relive all of the old Heat-Knicks hatred and show a bunch of clips of Van Gundy hanging on Alonzo Mourning. The media couldn't wait to jet back and forth between New York and Miami for the Conference Finals. It was all set up so perfectly. Then BAM, the Pacers massacred the Knicks and killed the dream. No ABC games for the Pacers is punishment for ruining the dream. I want to type that in green, but I'm not being entirely sarcastic........

    When a team that goes to Game 7 of the ECF's doesn't get an ABC game, the league has catastrophic marketing issues.

  8. #82

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Fence sitters are going to be drawn in with bad basketball and stupid drama?
    Unfortunately - yes.

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  10. #83
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Thoroughly impressed with the Blazers. Aldridge is better than ever and has turned into a player that is almost impossible to stop. Liliard is also really good.

    Not sure if it is being widely reported but the Blazers have copied our exact defensive system this year and are having some pretty good success.

    But what impressed me about the Blazers was how they just kept playing, kept coming at us, no matter what we did. They also seem together as a team and in what they are trying to do. I was very impressed. if they don't have any significant injuries to key players, they are going to be really good all season. Very well coached too.

    Blazers probably better than any team this year took advantage of what the Pacers defense gives up. Pacers play soft on pick and rolls, keeping their big guy zoning off in the lane, well the Blazers just decided not to fight that just pull up for the midrange jumper. So Mo Williams and Lillard torched us. First team I can recall this season that was happy to take what we give up.

    Also first game this year where I felt the only way we were going to win was outscore them. Our defense never really was able to exert their will on the opponent. Blame the refs all you want, but pacers need to learn in the regular season how to overcome bad calls. Learn now to play through it so in the playoffs they have practice at doing so

    LaMarcus Aldridge always goes off against the Pacers when they play in Portland. He's probably the only player in the NBA that David West and Roy Hibbert's toughness has no effect on - and that's on both ends of the floor. He hits that 18-20 foot jumper better than any PF since Karl Malone and he has near perfect shooting form. I still can't believe that the Bulls drafted him and traded him for the rights to Tyrus Thomas. :smack:

    Damian Lillard is the real deal. He's the 3rd best PG in the NBA behind CP3 and Westbrook, IMO. He kept beating George Hill over and over again off the dribble and around those screens. He does that to almost everyone so this is not a real big knock against GHill. Hill was very guardable on the other end of the floor and he missed all of his floaters.

    Yeah, Lance played with no aggressiveness on offense and got manhandled by Wes Matthews at times on the defensive end. David West ran out of gas in the fourth quarter and CJ Watson probably should've stayed in the game a little longer to guard Lillard. With all that said, this is my favorite loss of the past 2 years though (if that's even possible) because I really like Portland and because of the way PG went into Super Sonic mode. Hand-in-the-face or not, he was knocking down 3s like Reggie Miller in MSG. If he had knocked down that 3 in the corner after the steal he would've had an opportunity to beat Reggie's 8 pts, in 8.9 seconds record. Deja Vu was kicking in as I watched that play develop.

    It was a very exciting game. Too bad we lost but I can live with it. On to Utah.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  11. #84
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    While I am loath to defend the NBA or Uncle Buck for that matter I feel the need to interject this.

    The quality of the game is not the primary concern for the people who actually matter in this debate and believe it or not it's not the NBA nor is it even ABC.

    Where will more beer be sold? Where will more Chrysler's be sold? Where will more EA Sports games be sold? In other words while certainly the fans, the NBA and the network all are important the deciding factor of any TV event is sponsorship. While I would love to tell you that people would gather together and watch the Pacers vs. the Heat (which I think they certainly would) the ugly truth be told it would not draw the ratings or demographics that the Bulls vs. Knicks will have.

    Look I'm not saying it's right but it just is. The advertisers put their money into buying spots that will reach the buying market. I can assure you that while there certainly is a lot of beer sold in Indiana our entire state probably does not buy as much beer in a month as what N.Y. does in a week (hell maybe a day I don't know).

    Why is basketball this way and not football? Several reasons for certain but at the end of the day you would also be right to blame the way the NBA does market it's game and has always been that way. I wish it were different but sadly it's not.

    BTW, this is in no way a defense of the marketing strategy. I am just throwing out a factor that often times seems to be overlooked. I also agree that zero ABC games is a joke. I mean for God's sake we are facing the Heat on Tuesday and we are going to be the NBAtv fan night game, by all rights that should be a TNT game.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  13. #85
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Well, there's this, anyway:


    .

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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  15. #86
    Remember #31 dohman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Well, there's this, anyway:


    But I really enjoyed being one of the only pacers fans for the past 10 years.


  16. #87

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by dohman View Post
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    But I really enjoyed being one of the only pacers fans for the past 10 years.



    Hipster Lou agrees.

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  18. #88
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Damian Lillard is the real deal. He's the 3rd best PG in the NBA behind CP3 and Westbrook, IMO. He kept beating George Hill over and over again off the dribble and around those screens. He does that to almost everyone so this is not a real big knock against GHill. Hill was very guardable on the other end of the floor and he missed all of his floaters.
    Have to take some issue with this. The play its self....the PNR is pretty much unguardable. I just hate when people say point guard ABC are the best in the league when that said Point Guard use the PNR on 80% on their possessions. Honestly its silly. I've never seen players like Lillard, Rose, Parker, or CP3. Completely destroy GHill in a one on one situation.

    I often wonder why the Pacers do not run more PNR. They seem to settle in to Curls and Ball screens when not in the Post game.
    All i'm saying is that there is a certain style of offense that make Point Guards look like mini-gods.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  19. #89

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Have to take some issue with this. The play its self....the PNR is pretty much unguardable. I just hate when people say point guard ABC are the best in the league when that said Point Guard use the PNR on 80% on their possessions. Honestly its silly. I've never seen players like Lillard, Rose, Parker, or CP3. Completely destroy GHill in a one on one situation.

    I often wonder why the Pacers do not run more PNR. They seem to settle in to Curls and Ball screens when not in the Post game.
    All i'm saying is that there is a certain style of offense that make Point Guards look like mini-gods.
    Probably because Hibbert/West are ineffective as rollers. We do the PNP with West/Scola.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    Probably because Hibbert/West are ineffective as rollers. We do the PNP with West/Scola.
    In the playoffs last year, Hibbert looked like Tyson Chandler running the pick n roll. Remember when they had to scrape Ivan Johnson off of the floor in the Atlanta series, Yikes!!!

  21. #91

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by kent beckley View Post
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    In the playoffs last year, Hibbert looked like Tyson Chandler running the pick n roll. Remember when they had to scrape Ivan Johnson off of the floor in the Atlanta series, Yikes!!!
    Maybe they are saving it for the playoffs again.

  22. #92
    2014 IKL Champion DrBadd01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    I know I am a little late to the party here, but I wanted to add a few thoughts. Living in the Northwest I don't get a whole lot of chance to watch the pacers live (especially with no team in Seattle). It was because of this that it was a particular honor being able to go the game on Monday in Portland. Watching this game live it was pretty exciting to see PG, Lance, Roy and the boys play live for the first time. Peck pretty much nailed everything I would say in regards to how the game went. that said I wanted to add a few notes.

    First the obvious: Paul George is AMAZING!!!!! Some of those shots at the end of the 4th quarter with Wesley Matthews hands in his face were incredible to see go in. As a kid I remember watching Reggie play live every time the Pacers would come to Utah. Those last second shots would send chills up my spine. I got those same chills on Monday.

    Lance was well... bad lance on Monday. Watching the game you could tell that he was frustrated when he was in the game. I have seen good Lance and bad Lance on TV plenty of times, and was hoping to see good Lance in the game on Monday. I was disappointed to see him take himself out of that game. If Lance even plays at 50% of what he is capable of I think that loss is a win.

    Watching Hibbert and LaMarcus Aldridge go at one another was something else. Peck mentioned the ( I think deliberate from what I saw) knees that Aldridge applied in the first half. what hasn't been mentioned was the elbow Roy took in the fourth quarter. From what I could see LMA played dirty in that game (and got away with it). Scola also played really well in the first half, and I thought he should of played more minutes in the second half.

    Lastly the Referees wouldn't let the teams play. It seemed that they thought that they had to take control of game by calling bad calls on both teams (but more on the Pacers as Portland got more opportunities at the charity stripe than the Pacers).

    All in all it was a great game. Portland is a great team that played a great game. That said I don't think I have ever felt better after losing; PG showed me that we have a true superstar in the wings. One of our best players since Reggie Miller. I look forward to seeing what we can do against the Spurs.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Catching dysentery on the Oregon Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I can't wait for the TV ratings for tomorrow's snoozefest, and see just how popular these teams really are.


    Thursday’s Knicks/Nets NBA regular season game drew 1.5 million viewers on TNT, down 45% from Knicks/Heat last year (2.7M), and the network’s second-smallest audience of the season. The Heat/Bulls nightcap drew 2.1 million, up 76% from Mavericks/Suns last year (1.2M). Going back further, ESPN drew 1.9 million for the November 27 Heat/Cavaliers game. (The Futon Critic [1], [2])
    http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013...o-nba-liga-mx/

    The crazy thing is that it actually pretty close to last years ratings.
    http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2012...snets-rivalry/
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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