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Thread: Colts bench Trent Richardson

  1. #126

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Because people don't make stuff up about them, that's why. I've seen enough posts by people trying to say that Trent is a slow, and that he goes down on first contact, which both are refuted by facts. The problem is that the Trent criticism has been so extreme, that any push back against it is made out to be extreme the other way.

    How many times have I had to point out that Trent deserves blame, only to have a poster come back 10 posts later and try and argue that we're placing ALL the blame on the OLine?

    And there is very little criticism towards Grigson here. I could count the number of posts to prove that fact, but when I do I have poeple ***** about me counting and proving it. 90% of the criticism on here is towards Trent. It's so over the top it's frustrating to watch. It's pretty much mob mentality at this point.
    I know there were several posters that criticized Grigson for trading a first for Trent right after it happened. Cdash was one of them I believe.

    Also where is the fact proving that Trent is or isn't slow? I'd love to see that because I sure as heck notice a difference between the burst Brown shows vs. Trent.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    Also where is the fact proving that Trent is or isn't slow? I'd love to see that because I sure as heck notice a difference between the burst Brown shows vs. Trent.
    The fact that Trent runs a faster 40 time. I've linked it several times. 40 yard dashes are measurements is a combination of how a players burst (take off speed) and their top speed. Noticing the different speeds a runner is running at, doesn't tell you how good or how bad their burst is. We're trying to use visual evidence of one thing, and trying to aruge it proves something completely different.
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  3. #128

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Trent's 40 time from 20 months ago? That's the fact showing how fast he is right now?

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    An older article but still packed full of goodies.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...bonus-edition/

    Of his 14 carries, Richardson arrived at the intended point of attack to find it still viable just four times. That means that on 71.4% of his carries by the time he arrived at the hole he was supposed to hit it was already blown up! He was forced to make a cut in the backfield 10 times by defenders beating his blocking almost immediately, quickly enough that the average point at which he was forced to cut away from the intended point of attack was -2.1 yards. 2.1 yards deep in the backfield. Even counting the plays that weren’t destroyed before Richardson made it to the hole, the average point at which he was hit by a defender was just 0.8 yards down field.

    The point I’m making? Richardson could be the hybrid lovechild of Adrian Peterson and Barry Sanders and he would struggle behind the blocking he saw against the Broncos.
    I doubt it's changed all that much since he's gotten vastly more carries.

    He may never live up to the draft picks that have already been spent on him, but it would be a mistake to write Trent Richardson off as just another guy running the football, a plodding power back with little else to his game. The Colts are giving him little to no chance at the moment, but the tape shows a guy who is making explosive moves with the ball in his hands. Only Marshawn Lynch has more than the 34 forced missed tackles Richardson has tallied this season, and there is no back in football with a significant number of carries who is making people miss at a better rate than Richardson. This is a guy who is doing his best to make things happen, but so far hasn’t been able to overcome the plays crashing down around him.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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  5. #130
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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    Trent's 40 time from 20 months ago? That's the fact showing how fast he is right now?
    So his running ability just dropped off the edge of the world? Clearly he's not out of shape. He has no injury. People don't magically go from fast to slow, without something happening. Nothing has happened though. So instead of using cold hard numbers, we'll just pretend like Trent suddenly requires a walker.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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  6. #131

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So his running ability just dropped off the edge of the world? Clearly he's not out of shape. He has no injury. People don't magically go from fast to slow, without something happening. Nothing has happened though. So instead of using cold hard numbers, we'll just pretend like Trent suddenly requires a walker.
    So me saying Trent isn't as fast as he was almost two years and 400 NFL carries ago suddenly equates to pretending like he requires a walker? Seems like you're resorting to the similar tactics you claim to despise so much from these other posters. Is it really that big of a stretch to say he has lost some speed or burst?

    And your above quotes show again how ****** the oline is and the insanity of the coaches calling the same plays over and over. Trent isn't getting any help. But he's also not making anything happen on his own either.

  7. #132

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Also, where are these cold hard numbers that show Trent hasn't lost any speed? On 71.4% of his carries he arrived at the hole he was supposed to hit only that it had already been blown up. Maybe because he didn't hit it fast enough!

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    So me saying Trent isn't as fast as he was almost two years and 400 NFL carries ago suddenly equates to pretending like he requires a walker? Seems like you're resorting to the similar tactics you claim to despise so much from these other posters. Is it really that big of a stretch to say he has lost some speed or burst?
    When somone is going to try to shrug off an electric timed 40 number, because it doesn't support their argument, then yes, I'm going to go to sarcasm.

    Without some type of reasoning for the burst being gone, yes it is a stretch. Is there an example of another RB that lost his wheels after he crossed the 400 carry line? Something to support your idea that it just up and vanished?

    Probably not, beause what you're seeing and what you think it says, isn't what it's actually saying. There is a difference in the way Trent and Donald run the ball, and it has nothing to do with their actually phsyical ability to run the ball. Donald hits the hole much harder, doesn't mean his burst is better. Means he has more confidence in his running. It means he sees the hole sooner. It can mean a bunch of things that isn't tied to a players burst.

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    And your above quotes show again how ****** the oline is and the insanity of the coaches calling the same plays over and over. Trent isn't getting any help. But he's also not making anything happen on his own either.
    Yep, and using that excuse two weeks ago was a punch line. That's what I told you yesterday, and I'll continue saying it today, because it's the God's to honest truth. When KM or I bring up how crappy the oline is, posters actually LAUGHED. That was why I asked what excuse would get trotted out or Dondald. IT will be hilarious watching those who laughed at that excuse, use it when their supposed solution still produces crappy numbers.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So when are you going to start directing this *****ing at those who drafted him, or traded for him, rather than Trent himself? I gave the example in another thread. Someone overvalues a car. Do you ***** about the car, or their overvaluing of it? Obviously, it's the cars fault.
    Oh, I'm more pissed at Grigson and the FO than I am Richardson. Make no mistake about that. They got fleeced. There is plenty of disappointment to spread around.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    Also, where are these cold hard numbers that show Trent hasn't lost any speed? On 71.4% of his carries he arrived at the hole he was supposed to hit only that it had already been blown up. Maybe because he didn't hit it fast enough!

    Guy gets touched on average 2 yards in the backfield, and you think the problem is how hard he's hitting the hole....
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Seriously? Statistical numbers don't prove that the offensive line is beyond ******? All the evidence you need to know that they couldn't block a jr high team is to watch the game, and notice that the RBs have to deal with defenders in the backfield on 99.9% of running plays, and watch Luck get pummeled every time he drops back. Good lord man, no numbers or evidence to back up the assertion that the oline sucks? What planet are we now on?
    Watching the game isn't a statistic, and your 99.9% number lacks citation or any reasonable credibility beyond your hyperbolic intentions.

    I know the line is bad, that wasn't what I was saying. Even with the bad line, Brown has out produced Richardson. Even with an entirely different line in Cleveland, Richardson's numbers were pretty pedestrian (although they used him in the passing game much more which most of us are ripping our hair out about--goes back to Pep being the #1 problem for this team sans injuries).

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Watching the game isn't a statistic, and your 99.9% number lacks citation or any reasonable credibility beyond your hyperbolic intentions.

    I know the line is bad, that wasn't what I was saying. Even with the bad line, Brown has out produced Richardson. Even with an entirely different line in Cleveland, Richardson's numbers were pretty pedestrian (although they used him in the passing game much more which most of us are ripping our hair out about--goes back to Pep being the #1 problem for this team sans injuries).
    So you agree that the argument the oline sucks does, in fact, have fact and evidence backing it up? Brown might outproduce Trent, but it's not like his production is anything to write home about. The guy got planted on most of his runs. He had like 10 yards through the first 40 mins of the game.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  13. #138

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Guy gets touched on average 2 yards in the backfield, and you think the problem is how hard he's hitting the hole....
    Let me know once you get ahold of Trent so we can get an update on his 40 and 3 cone drill. That way we have cold hard numbers to back up what we're saying instead of using the eye test or 2012 combine numbers.


    Although it's convenient that you know he doesn't have any injuries (because we know ALL injuries are reported) and you know it's not possible he's out of shape in any way shape or form.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Guy gets touched on average 2 yards in the backfield, and you think the problem is how hard he's hitting the hole....
    He's been doing that for two years. I really think it goes back to his Alabama days when stuttering at the line made football sense--he knew his o-line was otherwordly (seriously, that Bama line he ran behind was one of the best in the past 20 years of college football) so he would patiently wait for the hole to open up and attack it. He hasn't altered his behavior in the NFL enough and the results have been vastly different. That's something that can be fixed--can be coached, which is frustrating from him and our coaching staff that it hasn't.

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  16. #140

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So you agree that the argument the oline sucks does, in fact, have fact and evidence backing it up? Brown might outproduce Trent, but it's not like his production is anything to write home about. The guy got planted on most of his runs. He had like 10 yards through the first 40 mins of the game.
    Yes, pretty much exactly this.

    For this week, I have more confidence in Brown than Trent. Meaning if the Colts rush for 80 yards, I expect Brown to have 45, Luck 20, and Richardson 15. Next year, with a new interior line, I think I'll take my chances with a Trent and Vick combo.
    Last edited by bunt; 12-05-2013 at 03:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So you agree that the argument the oline sucks does, in fact, have fact and evidence backing it up? Brown might outproduce Trent, but it's not like his production is anything to write home about. The guy got planted on most of his runs. He had like 10 yards through the first 40 mins of the game.
    You keep changing these arguments. Let's get this in bold: EVERYONE KNOWS THE OFFENSIVE LINE SUCKS. NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU OR ARGUING THAT FACT. WE EVEN USE IT AS A CAVEAT IN ALL OF OUR TRENT POSTS BECAUSE YOU GUYS WILL TWIST OUR WORDS IF WE DON'T.

    Here's another little trick I like that you are employing: Yes, he got stuffed the first 40 minutes of the game--no shock there. But when the chips were down and we needed big plays, Brown stepped up. He delivered. You keep leaving that part out.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    Although it's convenient that you know he doesn't have any injuries (because we know ALL injuries are reported) and you know it's not possible he's out of shape in any way shape or form.
    No both are possible. But I'm asking you to provide SOME type of evidence for that position, and you don't have any.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    You keep changing these arguments. Let's get this in bold: EVERYONE KNOWS THE OFFENSIVE LINE SUCKS. NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU OR ARGUING THAT FACT. WE EVEN USE IT AS A CAVEAT IN ALL OF OUR TRENT POSTS BECAUSE YOU GUYS WILL TWIST OUR WORDS IF WE DON'T.

    Here's another little trick I like that you are employing: Yes, he got stuffed the first 40 minutes of the game--no shock there. But when the chips were down and we needed big plays, Brown stepped up. He delivered. You keep leaving that part out.

    54 yards is delievering?

    Bolding and caplocking your arugment doesn't make it true. Do I need to go back and quote all the posts that made fun of the oline excuse? In my experience, people don't use a reasoning they agree with as a punchline.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  20. #144

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    No both are possible. But I'm asking you to provide SOME type of evidence for that position, and you don't have any.
    Haha ok man. I can't prove Trent lost a step. You can't prove he hasn't. So I lose!

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    54 yards is delievering?

    Bolding and caplocking your arugment doesn't make it true. Do I need to go back and quote all the posts that made fun of the oline excuse? In my experience, people don't use a reasoning they agree with as a punchline.
    46 yards on the game sealing drive topped off with a touchdown--yeah, I'd call that delivering.

    Find me a post where someone defends the offensive line and says it isn't bad. The offensive line can be bad, but an excuse at the same time.

  22. #146

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    You keep changing these arguments. Let's get this in bold: EVERYONE KNOWS THE OFFENSIVE LINE SUCKS. NO ONE IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU OR ARGUING THAT FACT. WE EVEN USE IT AS A CAVEAT IN ALL OF OUR TRENT POSTS BECAUSE YOU GUYS WILL TWIST OUR WORDS IF WE DON'T.

    Here's another little trick I like that you are employing: Yes, he got stuffed the first 40 minutes of the game--no shock there. But when the chips were down and we needed big plays, Brown stepped up. He delivered. You keep leaving that part out.
    I'm starting to have a little trouble keeping up with his posts at this point. Virtually everyone agrees the oline sucks. Virtually everyone agrees that the play calling sucks. Virtually everyone agrees that Trent is at least partially to blame for his lack of production. Virtually everyone agrees that for whatever the reason or excuse, Brown is the better option right now. What is the problem? Still hung up on being mocked on here a few weeks ago apparently?

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    46 yards on the game sealing drive topped off with a touchdown--yeah, I'd call that delivering.
    What about the other 50mins of the game?
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    Still hung up on being mocked on here a few weeks ago apparently?
    Trust me, your guys opinions of me doesn't cost me any sleep. If people are going to try and rewrite history and pretend like everyone was acknowledging the olines role in all of this, I'm going to bring reality back into the discussion.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    What about the other 50mins of the game?
    He sucked. But that one drive he did something we haven't seen out of Trent all season, and it just so happened to be the most important drive of the game. That has to count for something.

    We can keep this **** up all day--hell, we've been doing it for most of the season. Merry go round commence.

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    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Trust me, your guys opinions of me doesn't cost me any sleep. If people are going to try and rewrite history and pretend like everyone was acknowledging the olines role in all of this, I'm going to bring reality back into the discussion.
    See, we blame the offensive line for part of it. You guys blame the offensive line for all of it. That's the gulf we cannot bridge.

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