Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 186

Thread: Colts bench Trent Richardson

  1. #101
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,972

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've already laid out why I think it's absolutely goofy to call out Trent when this entire offense is sucking. Luck, Hilton, o-line, DBrown --- everyone. Every GD player on this offense is having a terrible stretch.

    But the only guy we hear about from all of you is Trent Richardson. This my biggest qualm. You guys just want a fall-guy. A guy who was acquired mid-season and forced to learn on the fly, and to boot, he arrived only to discover that the line in front of him is historically bad.

    Sure, I'm defending him, why wouldn't I? Why don't you all? Because DBrown breaks loose for 1 more play a game than him? That still doesn't qualify DBrown as having a successful season. Dude has 378 yards rushing this year. I'm just trying to bring some levity to this entire discussion, because I think it's absolutely hilarious that 1 guy (the new guy) gets blasted for production, when NO ONE else is producing, either. That's what I get tired of hearing. And the guy has an absolutely valid reason for his poor production besides what you all incorrectly perceive as "no talent". This line and coordinator is proving to bring down the entire offense. Luck, Hilton, everyone. We've seen regression across the board this year for the entire offense. And you all should know by now that a bad system can make the parts look bad. And you seem willing to accept that for everyone else on this offense except Trent Richardson. That, in my opinion, is very illogical.
    I don't mean to beat a dead Colt into the ground, but the difference is that everyone else you mention (Luck, Hilton, Brown) have all shown flashes of something this season. T-Rich OTOH has basically done nothing impressive over the course of the entire season. Even when the team was playing well, we still didn't see anything from T-Rich. That's the difference between T-Rich and the other players you mentioned. Even our blind squirrel offensive line has found a couple of nuts and created holes, yet T-Rich stutters and can not hit them. The guy just isn't fast. If T-Rich had been able to hit a few more holes over the course of the season and show that he could be a dynamic runner if something clears, then people would have backed off. But he's just never shown anything.

    Yes, Brown only has 378 yards....on just 71 attempts. T-Rich OTOH has just 306 yards on 108 attempts.

    Besides, there has been plenty of criticism for the rest of the team. Everyone recognizes that the offensive line sucks. Luck has been criticized for making some bad decisions with the ball and not recognizing when to take a sack. I've criticized T.Y. for not being physical enough on contested balls. I know that he's not a big guy, but I still think that he could do a better job of this. Pep is criticized constantly around here. Pagano has been criticized for not having the team prepared. The defense has been criticized for playing bad prior to that last game. No one is singling T-Rich out, but the price we paid for him is a first rounder which has not been used yet, so yes it stings when you sit back and think what we could have done with the pick.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-04-2013 at 07:08 PM.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:


  3. #102

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    It all comes down to performance vs expectations.

    Luck has been better than last year. As good as people hoped? No. But he's still the brightest spot in the offense and the conditions around him have not been good so he's been relatively free of criticism.

    Hilton was expected to be a good #2/#3 receiver. And that's what he's been this year. He has predictably struggled when becoming the #1, but he hasn't received much criticism because people realize he's in a role he's probably never going to be.

    Heyward-Bey has been just awful. He got a lot of criticism and there were some debates similar to the Richardson one early in the year when people were still defending him. Now that everyone agrees that he needs to be replaced, the criticism has died down a little bit because what else is there to say?

    The O-line is the same way. Pretty much everyone agrees it's terrible, so there hasn't been the pages upon pages of debate.

    Brown was supposed to be the #3 guy. So for him to become a good backup/below average starter this year is a very pleasant surprise, especially with how bad the line has been.

    Richardson was acquired to be an at least an above average running back and probably closer to a top 7 or 8 running back in the league. Instead, he has been a horrible starter. A large part of that can be excused by the O-line, but not nearly all of it for the reasons explained by many people. His star has definitely dimmed some as well, and he's probably not more than an average talent. If everyone agreed with that, the debate would likely end and the amount of Richardson discussion would be a lot less. But that seems to be the one area where there still is lots of debate, and so the discussion continues. And that's perfectly ok-people are free to have different opinions. However, different opinions do tend to generate more people talking about him and analyzing him as well.

    Like I said before, if you put up a poll for what are the biggest Colts offseason needs, replacing Richardson doesn't probably make the top two. He hasn't been the worst player. But of all the areas on the team, Trent Richardson has probably been the biggest disappointment compared to the expectations that were placed on him. And right now with the current offensive line, he's a horrible starter and Brown as a below average starter is an upgrade.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cubs231721 For This Useful Post:


  5. #103
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,244

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No, I get that's whay you guys are saying, I agree. But what I'm saying, has nothing to do with them but rather other posters.
    Those people sure aren't in this thread.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  6. #104
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,621

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Heisenberg hit on this in either this thread or another thread of similar tone, and it's basically been my stance since the day the deal was consummated: The price tag was/is my biggest gripe with the trade. Had we traded a third rounder for Richardson, I wouldn't be up in arms about it. I wouldn't be happy with his production, but if I'm paying for a Rolls Royce and getting a Toyota Camry I'm going to be pretty irritated about it.

    Just for kicks, I perused Mel Kiper and Todd McShay's Big Boards today--there is one running back listed on the two boards (Kiper's is 25 players deep; McShay's is a full 32): Carlos Hyde of Ohio State, and he just entered Kiper's board for the first time this week. McShay has none listed. Of course this could just be a down season for running backs and mean nothing, but it was interesting if nothing else.

  7. #105
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,616

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Brown also has more time in this league and in this system. He's also a first round pick. It's not really shocking that he looks 50 yards better.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  8. #106
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,616

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    At the time of TRich's acquisition, we were a solid team that didnt look this bad and no glaring needs like the o line has now become. Saying we have more pressing needs now is using your excellent 20/20 hindsight.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  9. #107
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,616

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    I'm done arguing this point. You all know my stance, it's not changing until I see this line and play-calling improve. If that happens and TRich still shows nothing, I'll own up. But I truly believe he'll be impressive if that happens.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  10. #108
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,621

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    At the time of TRich's acquisition, we were a solid team that didnt look this bad and no glaring needs like the o line has now become. Saying we have more pressing needs now is using your excellent 20/20 hindsight.
    Really? You want me to go back and pull up some of my posts from when that trade went down? I was against it from day one. In just this one case, my foresight was 20/20.

  11. #109
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,616

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    I was responding to cub, not you. I don't really give a **** what you say.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  12. #110
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,621

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm done arguing this point. You all know my stance, it's not changing until I see this line and play-calling improve. If that happens and TRich still shows nothing, I'll own up. But I truly believe he'll be impressive if that happens.
    Yes, almost every running back in the league would be impressive with a good offensive line, good play calling, and an elite quarterback.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to cdash For This Useful Post:


  14. #111

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    They should put Pep in at RB
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  15. #112
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,244

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Brown also has more time in this league and in this system. He's also a first round pick. It's not really shocking that he looks 50 yards better.
    Nobody will argue with that. And that's what most are saying... T-Rich might look better, even much better, with an improved line and more time.... BUT here... today... this season... DBrown is sorta producing... T-Rich is not. NOBODY is saying DBrown is anything but a slight improvement based on circumstances. Certainly nobody is saying DBrown is any kind of answer at RB moving forward into the future.

    We can debate WHY T-Rich doesn't do as well as DBrown this season, and there will always be the caveat of "Until the line is fixed nobody is going to look very good"... But for here and now, DBrown has earned the start with his ability to produce better than T-Rich with this line. ...And you might as well have said it yourself right here:
    Brown also has more time in this league and in this system. He's also a first round pick. It's not really shocking that he looks 50 yards better.
    And that sums up why Brown is starting.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bball For This Useful Post:


  17. #113
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,616

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Not saying that. Just defending TRich from the "utterly sucks" mentality from those who can't seem to grasp context. I still think, given a line that at least resembles a mediocre line, he immediately can show he's the better option. As of now, the hill he's had to climb has been massive. We could still see something from this line this year, not giving up hope yet. They got to get something going. Might have seen some signs of life on that last drive.

    To me though, the demotion was more treating a symptom than fixing the source. DBrown produces about 5% better than TRich with this line. My point... how bout you work on that line?

    I'm not in the camp that believes DBrown starting gives us that much more of a chance. Might seem like more to some, but was basically a lateral move in my opinion. We scored on a number of drives before the last drive (albeit mostly FGs) with DBrown having very little impact. He had like 25 yards on 2.0 YPC before that. Just don't think it had the impact that people think.

    All I'm hoping for is that this last game was a confidence booster and something for our offense to build on. Get this line somewhat functional, get TRich some more experience, and maybe go into the playoffs seeing the player we hope to see. I'm fairly confident that DBrown is not our long-term solution. I still think TRich can be. I prefer DBrown as a change of pace back.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 12-04-2013 at 09:06 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  18. #114
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,621

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not saying that. Just defending TRich from the "utterly sucks" mentality from those who can't seem to grasp context.
    I stop reading your diatribes when I see **** like this. Like the other 5-6 people arguing against you somehow can't grasp these advanced concepts that you have caught onto. Just stop. It's garbage and you know it.

    Unless TRich turns into Adrian Peterson, he will never be worth the price we paid for him. See, as part of this ongoing "context" thing that you mention that the rest of us simpletons are just learning about, I believe the price we paid for him is included in the context of his production. Late round running backs perform like this, and it's fine, it's expected. Running backs with first round price tags shouldn't be missing holes and stutter stepping at the line and performing worse than our preseason 4th string running back.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to cdash For This Useful Post:


  20. #115
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    7,006

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    How about we improve on that god-awful O-line with our 1st round pick next year? Or add depth to our anemic receiving corps? Or address a position of need on defense?

    Bottom line I'm just not comfortable with how much we gave up to get him. Guy's YPC average with Cleveland wasn't impressive either. Supposedly they had a bad O - line. Hmm.

    And I have not been gung ho on the trade since day one. Agree with cdash and Sollozo in that regard. You give up a 1st rounder for a guy, he ought to at least show flashes of potential now and then.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  21. #116
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,616

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I stop reading your diatribes when I see **** like this. Like the other 5-6 people arguing against you somehow can't grasp these advanced concepts that you have caught onto. Just stop. It's garbage and you know it.

    Unless TRich turns into Adrian Peterson, he will never be worth the price we paid for him. See, as part of this ongoing "context" thing that you mention that the rest of us simpletons are just learning about, I believe the price we paid for him is included in the context of his production. Late round running backs perform like this, and it's fine, it's expected. Running backs with first round price tags shouldn't be missing holes and stutter stepping at the line and performing worse than our preseason 4th string running back.
    Who was also a first rounder.

    Trust me, it's hard for me to read your stuff too. I got an idea; how 'bout not expecting Adrian Peterson or bust? Just complete lack of reality and context and until you show it, I'll continue to respond to these ridiculous statements.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 12-05-2013 at 12:50 AM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  22. #117
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,202

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Those people sure aren't in this thread.
    Oh, but they are.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  23. #118

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    His biggest highlight as a Colt is a 16 yard run. Five players on the Colts roster have longer runs this season.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to imawhat For This Useful Post:


  25. #119
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,616

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Well that settles it, lol.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  26. #120
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,621

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Who was also a first rounder.

    Trust me, it's hard for me to read your stuff too. I got an idea; how 'bout not expecting Adrian Peterson or bust? Just complete lack of reality and context and until you show it, I'll continue to respond to these ridiculous statements.
    And that's why so many people have *****ed about him over the years--he was a wasted first round pick.

    I have a complete lack of reality and context because--lord forbid--I would like to see a guy picked 3rd overall who we dealt a first rounder to obtain to at least show some flashes of being a good NFL running back. Flashes he has not shown--here or in Cleveland. At some point in roughly 30 career games, wouldn't you expect him to show something here and there? Wait, let me guess, he has, but your advanced knowledge of the NFL allows only you to see it?

  27. #121
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,621

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Well that settles it, lol.
    The numbers and evidence don't exactly support your side of the argument. We could toss out numbers all day and you will continue to make excuses for him without ever backing it up with any real facts. Just your blanket, "the offensive line sucks" statement. Or little quips like this post.

  28. #122
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,202

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And that's why so many people have *****ed about him over the years--he was a wasted first round pick.
    So when are you going to start directing this *****ing at those who drafted him, or traded for him, rather than Trent himself? I gave the example in another thread. Someone overvalues a car. Do you ***** about the car, or their overvaluing of it? Obviously, it's the cars fault.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  29. #123
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,202

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The numbers and evidence don't exactly support your side of the argument.
    Seriously? Statistical numbers don't prove that the offensive line is beyond ******? All the evidence you need to know that they couldn't block a jr high team is to watch the game, and notice that the RBs have to deal with defenders in the backfield on 99.9% of running plays, and watch Luck get pummeled every time he drops back. Good lord man, no numbers or evidence to back up the assertion that the oline sucks? What planet are we now on?
    Last edited by Since86; 12-05-2013 at 12:57 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  30. #124

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So when are you going to start directing this *****ing at those who drafted him, or traded for him, rather than Trent himself? I gave the example in another thread. Someone overvalues a car. Do you ***** about the car, or their overvaluing of it? Obviously, it's the cars fault.
    I think Ryan Grigson has been getting a decent amount of criticism for this past year's transactions - draft, free agency signings, and trades. Now he had a helluva first year so that buys him some leniency.

    But why does Trent Richardson need so much protection from you guys on PD? McGlynn and Satele get railed on here pretty good for obvious reasons. DHB as well. Why is it ok to call them out for their mediocre play but not Richardson?

  31. #125
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,202

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Colts bench Trent Richardson

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Why is it ok to call them out for their mediocre play but not Richardson?
    Because people don't make stuff up about them, that's why. I've seen enough posts by people trying to say that Trent is a slow, and that he goes down on first contact, which both are refuted by facts. The problem is that the Trent criticism has been so extreme, that any push back against it is made out to be extreme the other way.

    How many times have I had to point out that Trent deserves blame, only to have a poster come back 10 posts later and try and argue that we're placing ALL the blame on the OLine?

    And there is very little criticism towards Grigson here. I could count the number of posts to prove that fact, but when I do I have poeple ***** about me counting and proving it. 90% of the criticism on here is towards Trent. It's so over the top it's frustrating to watch. It's pretty much mob mentality at this point.

    EDIT: About making stuff up, just look at it this way. Trent put up 1300 yards of offensive production as a rookie, with 12 TDs, and we still have posters saying he hasn't proven anything. Except the fact that it was near record production for a rookie RB. (He actually tied Jim Brown's rookie rushing TD record) Just think about that.

    If they actually used one of his greatest strengths, pass catching, he'd look a hell of a lot better. But no, let's just act like Trent is downright awful with no good qualities.
    Last edited by Since86; 12-05-2013 at 01:11 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to Since86 For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •