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Thread: Vogel: A long-term coach?

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Vogel: A long-term coach?

    So we haven't heard much about Larry Bird's "three year coaching" rule. I see some coaches that rotate through the league, but I also see coaches that land in a certain place and stay there for a long time: Sloan in Utah, Pop in SA. The coach becomes a face of the team as much as the players, and it definitely gives a stability to the organization as a whole.

    Could Vogel be that kind of coach? Could Indy be that kind of team?
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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    So we haven't heard much about Larry Bird's "three year coaching" rule. I see some coaches that rotate through the league, but I also see coaches that land in a certain place and stay there for a long time: Sloan in Utah, Pop in SA. The coach becomes a face of the team as much as the players, and it definitely gives a stability to the organization as a whole.

    Could Vogel be that kind of coach? Could Indy be that kind of team?
    I would hope so, but it remains to be seen how Vogel deals with adversity. The team has been on a general upswing since he took over, so we've only seen one side of his coaching ability - how he shepherds a bunch of guys into a goal that they can see in front of them. The tell will be how he can deal with a team when the goal isn't quite as clear-cut and when there are players who get deserved flak from the media and fans because they are more flawed than these guys are.

    Of course, if we are lucky enough to keep our top guys for a long time a la San Antonio, we might not need to see that...
    BillS

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    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    I really hope that Frank has a very long tenure with the Pacers. I honestly don't think there is a better candidate for our culture and approach to the game.
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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    So we haven't heard much about Larry Bird's "three year coaching" rule. I see some coaches that rotate through the league, but I also see coaches that land in a certain place and stay there for a long time: Sloan in Utah, Pop in SA. The coach becomes a face of the team as much as the players, and it definitely gives a stability to the organization as a whole.

    Could Vogel be that kind of coach? Could Indy be that kind of team?
    It will all depend on the continuity of winning plus how the players respond to his leadership. One of the things that the likes of Pop and Sloan have is that players respond well to their coaching styles and that most of their seasons are winning seasons. Same with Phil Jackson. And if Bird didn't follow his plan he would've lasted more than 3 seasons too as a coach.

    So if Vogel does want to keep the Pacers coaching gig, of course he should deliver the wins and at the same time his players should always back him up within the organization.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    I've heard discussions about the Pacers core and who is a core member of the franchise. To me, the Pacers have a 3 person core:

    Paul George
    Roy Hibbert
    Frank Vogel

    These are the 3 Pacers that the brass want to ensure are in the organization until 2020. Every move they make will be to get players that complement the strengths of those 3.

    Remember, the Spurs have been good for years with Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovich (and Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, to a lesser extent). The Patriots have been good for years with Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck. The Yankees were good for years with Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera.

    That's the success that the Pacers are trying to emulate, and that's the core group that can pull it off. So, to answer your question, I think the Pacers keep Vogel as long as they can. And they should. He's one of the best.
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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I would hope so, but it remains to be seen how Vogel deals with adversity. The team has been on a general upswing since he took over, so we've only seen one side of his coaching ability - how he shepherds a bunch of guys into a goal that they can see in front of them. The tell will be how he can deal with a team when the goal isn't quite as clear-cut and when there are players who get deserved flak from the media and fans because they are more flawed than these guys are.

    Of course, if we are lucky enough to keep our top guys for a long time a la San Antonio, we might not need to see that...
    I think we have seen how Frank does with adversity, the interim year where things nearly blew up in the locker room in Houston during the losing streak, last year when the team started off slow...
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    I think he's the long-term coach. I think the players really like him, and just as a lot of our players have grown, so has he. Honestly, outside of Poppovich, and maybe Rivers, Carlisle, or Thiobdeau (you could make an argument), I can't think of anyone who I think is better.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    I think we have seen how Frank does with adversity, the interim year where things nearly blew up in the locker room in Houston during the losing streak, last year when the team started off slow...
    Not quite the same. Even though there were locker room issues, there was always the potential to reach pretty deep into the playoffs (and, in the interim year, just to not be the previous coach). I think what challenges a coach most is when the team isn't quite good enough to reach one of the tangible end-of-season goals and knows it - then players tend to start focusing on themselves and their future rather than focusing on the team.
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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    In order to be consistent, Bird needs to fire Vogel at the All-Star break.








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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    I don't even understand why this would need to be asked. That's all I can add to this discussion.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    i hope Vogel retires a Pacer.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    I've heard discussions about the Pacers core and who is a core member of the franchise. To me, the Pacers have a 3 person core:

    Paul George
    Roy Hibbert
    Frank Vogel
    If you are including management, Bird's got to be part of the core.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    I thought right away, why would either side want to break this combination up? Then I re-thought. Maybe if the Pacers go to the Finals this year or win the Championship, FV will either get or at least want a long term extension for some really serious money, or some other teams will start looking at his track record and offering the money and perks to steal him away. Maybe the thought of taking over another team building project(with Brad Stevens type paycheck) would appeal to Frank. How many seasons of 'close but not quite' will the Pacers and Bird be willing to give FV?

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Clearly Vogel will be here for more than three years!

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Not quite the same. Even though there were locker room issues, there was always the potential to reach pretty deep into the playoffs (and, in the interim year, just to not be the previous coach). I think what challenges a coach most is when the team isn't quite good enough to reach one of the tangible end-of-season goals and knows it - then players tend to start focusing on themselves and their future rather than focusing on the team.
    Not going to be a problem with Frank Vogel.

    Regardless of team and opponent, he seems to genuinely believe HIS team will be the winning team.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I would hope so, but it remains to be seen how Vogel deals with adversity.
    Losing your best player to injury last year, doesn't count as adversity?
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Vogel has done everything you could possibly want as a head coach. The players love him, his defense-first approach is the correct one, and this team has gotten better every year under him.

    As long as the Pacers play hard and remain competitive, Vogel is the man for the job.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    So we haven't heard much about Larry Bird's "three year coaching" rule.
    That quote was more about Bird establishing the expectation early on in regards to how long he was willing to coach.

    It could be true that those 80's Celtics teams tuned out their coaches after 3-years but suspect that was more a function of Fitch, Jones & Rodgers not exactly being on par with Riley, Sloan & Popavich than anything else. Those Celtics teams were pretty cerebral across the board and likely wouldn't connect long-term with a less than special coach.

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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    I hope Vogel becomes the longest tenured and most successful coach in Pacers history!

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel: A long-term coach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Not going to be a problem with Frank Vogel.

    Regardless of team and opponent, he seems to genuinely believe HIS team will be the winning team.
    I think that could get tiring if the team knows they aren't. One assumes Frank will change up the positive he emphasizes, but it remains to be seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Losing your best player to injury last year, doesn't count as adversity?
    Honestly? Not really. Everyone's on the same page trying to overcome a single known problem. It only becomes trouble if you DON'T have "next man up" being successful. In particular, imagine if PG had gone down as well. What would the locker room have been like if someone from that bench had to come up for a couple months and not do as well as Lance?


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