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Thread: Week 12: @ Cardinals

  1. #301
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    What argument have you provided exactly, except regurgitate what you and a million other talking heads have already stated? That's why it's cliche. What exactly outside of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady has indicated that any team is considered a true passing juggernaut? The league goes through these cycles every decade. When Peyton came on the scene, I could argue the league was run-heavy. NE was winning SBs with defense. Everyone thought Indy was foolish for going the pass route. Pigeon-holing into a certain mindset doesn't get you anywhere. Assuming you can't win with a run emphasis because right now, you consider it against the league grain.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 11-29-2013 at 06:40 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    What argument have you provided exactly, except regurgitate what you and a million other talking heads have already stated? That's why it's cliche. What exactly outside of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady has indicated that any team is considered a true passing juggernaut? The league goes through these cycles every decade. When Peyton came on the scene, I could argue the league was run-heavy. NE was winning SBs with defense. Everyone thought Indy was crazy for going the pass route. Pigeon-holing into a certain mindset doesn't get you anywhere. Assuming you can't win with a run emphasis because right now, you consider it against the league grain.
    Right. But that doesn't make it wrong. It's just you setting up a straw man to attack.

    What teams outside of Manning/Brady led teams are true passing juggernauts? The Drew Brees Saints come to mind. The Packers under Aaron Rodgers. The Megatron/Stafford Lions throw the ball a bunch.

    I'm not pigeon holed into one mindset. I'm not saying you can't win unless you air it out 60 times a game--that would be asinine. I just think predictable running formations (you know, those ones Pep loves to use) and shrinking the field (lack of spacing--multiple TE sets coupled with a FB and one or no players on the perimeter) are done. Defenses are too complex, linebackers are too fast, the guys on the line are too big--it just creates a bottleneck. To be very clear, because judging by your responses you either aren't seeing this or you are choosing to ignore it: I'm not saying running games in the NFL (or any other level of football) are dead. I'm not saying you can't win with an offensive attack that is more rushing oriented than passing. I just think with the way the game is played these days that it takes some of the value of the running back position away--enough to where I wouldn't want to spend a first round pick on the position.

  3. #303
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    I didn't set up a straw man. I think it's not smart to completely discredit an entire position.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I didn't set up a straw man. I think it's not smart to completely discredit an entire position.
    K then focus on the last 2-3 sentences I wrote in that post and tell me how, exactly, I am "completely discrediting" an entire position.

  5. #305
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    By saying it's "not worth a first rounder"? "It's a passing league"?

    Btw, 5 teams out of 32 doesn't constitute a passing majority. Not only that, I'd argue that beyond that, the drop-off is so steep, so many teams can't pass the ball consistently, that it's really hard to label it a passing league. If anything, I'd say that actually most teams have a balance.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 11-29-2013 at 07:10 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    To make a blanket statement that a position is not worth a first round pick is just stupid.
    Kicker?


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  7. #307
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Go back and read lol...

    And if you do, you'll realize I mean an every down position.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    By saying it's "not worth a first rounder"? "It's a passing league"?

    Btw, 5 teams out of 32 doesn't constitute a passing majority. Not only that, I'd argue that beyond that, the drop-off is so steep, so many teams can't pass the ball consistently, that it's really hard to label it a passing league. If anything, I'd say that actually most teams have a balance.
    I said:
    To be very clear, because judging by your responses you either aren't seeing this or you are choosing to ignore it: I'm not saying running games in the NFL (or any other level of football) are dead. I'm not saying you can't win with an offensive attack that is more rushing oriented than passing. I just think with the way the game is played these days that it takes some of the value of the running back position away--enough to where I wouldn't want to spend a first round pick on the position.
    You're reading comprehension translated that as:
    By saying it's "not worth a first rounder"? "It's a passing league"?
    Somehow, my above statement equates to:
    completely discredit an entire position.
    in your mind.

    I don't put a first round value on running backs. This is true. But it's quite a leap from that statement to "completely discrediting an entire position."

    Also, if you really want to do this, I can pull up passing percentages for all NFL teams year by year for the last 15 years and (without checking) I am confident we would see a general trend upward in how many playcalls are designed passing plays. I'm not sure that they track this, although I'm sure it's out there somewhere, the number of designed quarterback runs, scrambles, average number of carries by the primary running back, and so on would support that the league has, in general, veered more towards passing than it has in the past. I'm sure with a quick Google search I could pull up some articles from writers/news outlets you would surely try to discredit discussing this trend and the effect of the rules changes over the past decade in the NFL.

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    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    I don't know whether or not a RB is worth a first, but I don't get using where he was drafted or what he was traded for as a criticism toward the player and not towards the person who drafted him nor traded for him.

    If someone overvalues a car, you don't place blame on the car.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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