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Thread: Week 12: @ Cardinals

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    The game discussion spills into page 8 out of 9, and then the jokes start rolling in about how awful the line is (in a sarcastic tone and putting it towards Trent), or about how Boom Herron is better than TRich. 90% of the focus is on one player. When you're QB is getting his socks rocked pretty much every down, and when he doesn't he's forced into a quick throw, combined with the fact that you can't run the ball, I would think that offensive line issues would be crystal freaking clear.

    And besides, I was talking about the focus being on TRich, not that nothing was ever said about other issues. We focus on TRich, when the entire offense has shown just how ****** it is without the security blanket of Reggie. It starts and ends with the OLine. Can't get enough time to throw the ball, can't get a good enough push to run the ball, but hey, TRich doesn't have any burst.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-26-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    And Pep has got to go. How do you not try and get the ball out a little quicker, and use the defense crashing down on your backfield against them? Were there any screens last game? I get staying with a game plan, I get staying with it for a couple weeks, but how many times do we need to see the same story before he tries something different? Just try. Not like it can work any worse.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The game discussion spills into page 8 out of 9, and then the jokes start rolling in about how awful the line is, or about how Boom Herron is better than TRich. 90% of the focus is on one player. When you're QB is getting his socks rocked pretty much every down, and when he doesn't he's forced into a quick throw, combined with the fact that you can't run the ball, I would think that offensive line issues would be crysyal freaking clear.

    At that point, there was nothing to do but joke. That's a few jokes after about 7 or so pages of consistent ripping of the entire team.

    For most of the thread in the heart of the game, there was pretty evenly spread criticism. I don't think anyone disagrees that this team has plenty of flaws right now. Outside of the quarterback, it's maybe the least threatening offense in the entire league. That falls on the shoulders of the receivers, running backs, O-line, and coordinating.

    Any offensive coordinator worth his salt would find some creative ways to get T.Y. the ball. Pep has failed at that big time over the last couple of games. If Arians were here, he'd figure out a way to get T.Y. the ball.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    At that point, there was nothing to do but joke.
    About one player. Maybe if the jokes weren't stale after the first 5 weeks, they'd be funnier. But at this point, it's just piling on one guy, while pretty much ignoring the rest. This is an every week ordeal here. Nothing changes. Every week is the same crap from the Colts, and every week the focus stays on Trent. That also should be crystal clear, seeing as how pointing out the line's bad play is now the basis of people's jokes for how bad TRich is...

    Example:
    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    TRich hasn't had a game as good as Boom Herron's in a month.
    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    But it is all the offensive lines fault.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-26-2013 at 10:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    About one player. Maybe if the jokes weren't stale after the first 5 weeks, they'd be funnier. But at this point, it's just piling on one guy, while pretty much ignoring the rest.
    Given the way that game went, Herron ripping off a 22 yard run at the end was funny in a sad sort of way. It was too hard to resist the temptation to joke about it after watching a pathetically awful game.

    No one is ignoring the rest. There is 9 pages worth of criticism about the entire club. Multiple posts about the awful receivers. Multiple posts about the horrid defense. Multiple posts questioning coaching - some even saying that they wish Arians was here instead of Pagano. Multiple posts criticizing a couple of bad decisions from Luck. Plenty of posts about the lame offensive coordinating.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    And yet they don't make their way into the post game discussion.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And yet they don't make their way into the post game discussion.
    After a quick glance, posts 190, 194, 197, 198, 200, 201, 203, 206, 209, 210, 215, 218, 219, and 220 were all post game comments with criticisms that didn't focus on Richardson.

    There was plenty of criticism of the entire team throughout the game and into the post game comments.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Did you count how many criticized the Oline? Probably didn't notice, because they aren't there. I did count them, and there was one. ONE. And guess who it was?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    This is a systemic breakdown, pointing fingers to individual players is asinine. I know TRich hasn't blown it up, but this team has sucked for about a month now. And when an entire team sucks, the individuals look even worse. And make fun of the "o line" comments alll you want, but the o-line was where the cracks in this team's armor first showed, and now the entire team has just followed suit.

    It was a promising start to the season, but we are fizzling down the stretch hard. The loss of so many players has finally taken its toll. Very disappointing, but it's hard to imagine this ship getting righted this year. We've been playing some very bad football, and for a while now. It's no longer an outlying performance... it's become the norm. We're not a good football team anymore.
    But hey, atleast we got some really good, and really, really original jokes about how Kid bashes the oline.

    You made a pretty length post handing out criticism in a couple different directions, and know what direction you didn't take it in? The oline. The most glaring, biggest weakness of the team.

    Jokes about how awful Trich is and Kid's/my focus on the online outnumber the actual criticisms of the oline on about a 10-1 scale. But yeah...

    EDIT: 186, 192, 193, 195, 207, 208, 216, and 217 are all posts that either directly criticize Trent, or make sarcastic comments about others blaming the line. So were looking at a 8-1 ratio of where the complaints are about the lack of a running game, all within 35 posts or so.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-26-2013 at 11:23 AM.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Though I didn't talk about the O-Line in my quick post game comments, I've said multiple times in recent weeks that they are bad and I've never once laid all of the blame at T-Rich's shoulders. My contention has simply been that T-Rich hasn't added anything of value that you'd expect when you give up a first round pick. Also, I did say that they should try rolling Luck out more since he is getting killed in the pocket, which is basically saying that the O-Line is bad.

    Here's something that would maybe help T-Rich or any of the other running backs: Try running out of a passing set since the power running attack doesn't work. What a novel idea! Again, this just one of many examples which shows that Pep has horrible adaptive ability and creative skills for an NFL coordinator. I'll spell it out right now that I have far more of a problem with our O-Line and coordinating than I do T-Rcih.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    I just can't wait til next week, so we can do this all over again.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

  15. #236
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    I think Grigson panicked when Bradshaw went down (after already losing Ballard) and jumped on the TRich deal (or sought it) too quickly. Meanwhile, stinging from that or already using up his cards, he stood pat after losing Wayne and that turns out to have been the more problematic area.
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I think Grigson panicked when Bradshaw went down (after already losing Ballard) and jumped on the TRich deal (or sought it) too quickly. Meanwhile, stinging from that or already using up his cards, he stood pat after losing Wayne and that turns out to have been the more problematic area.
    Actually, Bradshaw was still active when we made the T-Rich trade. We had only lost Ballard at that point. T-Rich's first game as a Colt was the San Francisco game in which Bradshaw shredded the Niners. Though it's fair to say that Grigs was probably concerned about Bradshaw being the lead back considering his injury history. Those fears unfortunately rang true.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Here is the league's split page average.
    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...splits_avg.htm

    2&1-4 is the only second down where the average team rushes the ball more often than passes. Not real sure the page has been updated in a while, but I'm sure the trends don't have much wild swing. (The average number of second down plays is 230, which is about 30% of the number of 2nd down plays the Colts have ran.)
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Whoops. Scratch all that, my eyes were jumping on me. I figured out why the Colts number of 2nd down plays dwarfed the rest of the league, and it's because I swapped out the attempts and yard columns. I'll rerun the numbers.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Total rushing attempts on 2nd down is 88 compared to 139 pass attempts. (BIG difference lol)
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Luck's completion percentage on 3rd down is awful though. Less than 50%.(47%)
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Anyone know of a site that tracks QB sacks, knockdowns, and hurries?
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    The last few weeks have kind of made me reassess the talent gap between Luck and RG3, in a positive sense for RG3, but not necessarily in a negative way for Luck. As expected, both have looked like crap without anything resembling a viable offensive line, running game, receiving corps, or defensive support. It will be interesting to see if RG3 bounces back if the Redskins ever learn to make competent front office decisions and if the Colts ditch the injury bug and improve their own personnel moves a bit.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    If anything you should be seeing the things coming out regarding RG3 and what his teammates and people in the media are saying about his leadership. And I'm not denying the 'Skins have more issues than RG3, but I still see holes in his game and the way he plays, even disregarding the off-field crap.
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    I think Pep is in some serious hot water. The issue comes from higher than TRich and Luck and Reggie Wayne. We have the pieces. They aren't being used correctly. These same guys all had better years last year... yes, even TRich. This offense has nose-dived. Across the board. Something has to be done. Who here doesn't believe that Bruce Arians couldn't walk in here tomorrow and fix our issues? I believe he could. He did much more with much less.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I think Pep is in some serious hot water. The issue comes from higher than TRich and Luck and Reggie Wayne. We have the pieces. They aren't being used correctly. These same guys all had better years last year... yes, even TRich. This offense has nose-dived. Across the board. Something has to be done. Who here doesn't believe that Bruce Arians couldn't walk in here tomorrow and fix our issues? I believe he could. He did much more with much less.
    Amen. I didn't like the hire when it happened and I really don't like it now.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I think Pep is in some serious hot water. The issue comes from higher than TRich and Luck and Reggie Wayne. We have the pieces. They aren't being used correctly. These same guys all had better years last year... yes, even TRich. This offense has nose-dived. Across the board. Something has to be done. Who here doesn't believe that Bruce Arians couldn't walk in here tomorrow and fix our issues? I believe he could. He did much more with much less.
    I agree with this one. As much as I think TRich's issues are just as much on him as the offensive line I do agree that Pep does no favors for him. There are so many times I sit during games and call out it being a run. If most of us can predict when TRich is just going to run up the gut I am sure defensive coordinators know when it is coming.

    Our interior of the offensive line is atrocious so what does he do? He continues to have Luck sit in there and take pressure instead of try to roll him out from time to time. Why not run more quick screens and patterns that gets the ball out of Luck's hands quickly? Why not run the no huddle and uptempo offense from the beginning than when we are down 17 at the start of the third.

    In this game we came out with no huddle and uptempo and it was the best our offensive looked all game long. I do not for the life of me understand why we do that more often.

    I think Manusky needs to have some fire under him as well. At least Pep has the injuries to Allen, Wayne, Bradshaw, Ballard, and Thomas to deal with. Toller has been hurt a couple games, but this defense has fallen apart since the Denver game.

    Towards the comments about TRich they are just jokes out of frustration. Nobody really believes that Herron would do better or that everything is TRich's fault. It is just jokes because there is nothing else you can say about how bad he and the offensive line has played since he got here.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    Towards the comments about TRich they are just jokes out of frustration. Nobody really believes that Herron would do better or that everything is TRich's fault. It is just jokes because there is nothing else you can say about how bad he and the offensive line has played since he got here.
    And yet there isn't a single joke that makes the OLine the butt, only Trent and those who talk about the Oline. If you were handing out jokes to everyone that is worthy of them, there wouldn't be any complaint. But that's not what is happening, and that's why there are complaints.
    “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    I agree with this one. As much as I think TRich's issues are just as much on him as the offensive line I do agree that Pep does no favors for him. There are so many times I sit during games and call out it being a run. If most of us can predict when TRich is just going to run up the gut I am sure defensive coordinators know when it is coming.

    Our interior of the offensive line is atrocious so what does he do? He continues to have Luck sit in there and take pressure instead of try to roll him out from time to time. Why not run more quick screens and patterns that gets the ball out of Luck's hands quickly? Why not run the no huddle and uptempo offense from the beginning than when we are down 17 at the start of the third.

    In this game we came out with no huddle and uptempo and it was the best our offensive looked all game long. I do not for the life of me understand why we do that more often.

    I think Manusky needs to have some fire under him as well. At least Pep has the injuries to Allen, Wayne, Bradshaw, Ballard, and Thomas to deal with. Toller has been hurt a couple games, but this defense has fallen apart since the Denver game.

    Towards the comments about TRich they are just jokes out of frustration. Nobody really believes that Herron would do better or that everything is TRich's fault. It is just jokes because there is nothing else you can say about how bad he and the offensive line has played since he got here.

    Well said.

    A couple of things we should try doing:

    - Run out of passing formations more. That could definitely help T-Rich and the running game. Pagano and Pep act as if they would lose their manhood if they don't run in the predictable power formations.

    - Find f'ing ways to get the ball to T.Y. Get some quick screens that get the ball out of Luck's hands quickly and UTILIZE HILTON'S SPEED. We know that offenses are going to try to take T.Y. out of the game, so we can't do the same predictable things that we've done all season. We have to find new ways to adapt and get him the ball.

    - Roll Luck out of the pocket more. Tired of seeing him get smothered.

    - Don't sub in David Reed for Hilton or DHB ever again. He should be fired on the spot next time that happens.


    There's no doubt in my mind that if Arians were here, T.Y.would easily be one of the top receivers in the league down the stretch of this season. Arians would figure out how to get his best playmaker the ball. We have a great quarterback in Luck and we have a talented receiver in T.Y. I don't care what the rest of the team looks like, there is simply no excuse for not getting T.Y. the ball when you are dealing with a QB-WR tandem like that. Any average NFL coordinator should easily be able to figure out ways to get T.Y. the ball in favorable situations.

    Of course, one has to assume that Pep is simply running the sort of offense that Pagano wants. Pagano is obsessed with pounding his chest over the power run game. It sounds great in theory, but this isn't Baltimore. We don't have the O-Line that they had when he was there, and we don't have Ray Rice. Yet the team stubbornly clings to the ideology that you have to stick to the smash mouth approach or else you might as well just quit playing football. That starts with Pagano. Honestly, if Pep were replaced, I still don't think too much would change. An offensive coordinator is going to run what his head coach wants.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 11-26-2013 at 01:26 PM.

  32. #250
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    Default Re: Week 12: @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And yet there isn't a single joke that makes the OLine the butt, only Trent and those who talk about the Oline. If you were handing out jokes to everyone that is worthy of them, there wouldn't be any complaint. But that's not what is happening, and that's why there are complaints.
    Seriously? Do you now count how many times Richardson and OL are ridiculed? Why does it matter anyway?

    People on here, on other Colts forums, blogs and other online platforms have gone out of their way to criticize the OL. That was happening from last season as well as it was glaring. The common thing you would see on other posts most of the time was " Offensive Line" and it was way before Richardson joined the club. We were here last off season cursing that McGlynn was still in the team's books and were wondering what the hell Grigson sees in him? We still do. Hell, I have read so many times the "McSuck and Sucktele" descriptions.

    I don't think Richardson is being used as a scapegoat. The line's problems are well documented. It has been awful most of the time as Richardson has been himself.

    PS: BTW, I honestly don't care what 40-yard dash he had. How that translates on the field matters to me and so far, one word describes that: Poorly.
    Last edited by Johanvil; 11-26-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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