Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 45 of 45

Thread: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

  1. #26

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    This example is one of the reasons I think the new CBA hurts the small-market teams more than it hurts the big-market teams. It's sad to see that a team that is starting to bloom suddenly blows up by the FO because of luxury tax situations. OKC is one, and this Pacers team may end up the same fate.

  2. #27
    Member CoolHand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    303
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    "That's right: Lance Stephenson has slowed down, on purpose, on some fast breaks this season."

    hahaha
    I actually LOL'ed for realz when I read that in the article...

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CoolHand For This Useful Post:


  4. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,045

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If we had to sacrifice one of Hill or West, who would you choose?

    FWIW, I don't think we'll actually have to go that far.
    I would give up Lance.

  5. #29
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Why would the Pacers choose Mahinmi, Scola, and/or Copeland over Hill?

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to rexnom For This Useful Post:


  7. #30
    Member Johanvil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    3,250

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    OK, this will sound weird and maybe belongs to the Odd Thoughts thread but...

    I am so high on Lance lately that I'm getting flashes of him initiating his favorite coast to coast drives from one end to another, elbowing whoever gets in his way and saying "GTFO of my way. I'm gonna dunk/lay up this ****".
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

  8. #31

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    I still think people are overshooting the kind of contract Lance will get. Cope should be easy to move IMO. I could see the Lakers wanting to get him for free.

  9. #32
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,045

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I still think people are overshooting the kind of contract Lance will get. Cope should be easy to move IMO. I could see the Lakers wanting to get him for free.
    Hope so, we'll get a better idea the more games they play.

  10. #33

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Eh, if they want Lance, they can keep Lance. I understand that the Pacers always bleat about not exceeding the cap, but that's a stance that can be changed. It's a stance that is a lot easier to change if attendance improves and you go to the Finals.

    And I appreciate everything the Simons have done, but the Pacers aren't exactly a charity endeavor for them. Yes, they've lost some money during some years, but the overall value of an NBA franchise? Let's just say they've invested pretty well.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to danman For This Useful Post:


  12. #34
    Member Downtown Bang!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St Paul MN
    Posts
    535

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Eh, if they want Lance, they can keep Lance. I understand that the Pacers always bleat about not exceeding the cap, but that's a stance that can be changed. It's a stance that is a lot easier to change if attendance improves and you go to the Finals.

    And I appreciate everything the Simons have done, but the Pacers aren't exactly a charity endeavor for them. Yes, they've lost some money during some years, but the overall value of an NBA franchise? Let's just say they've invested pretty well.
    The problem with this logic is that in order to realize the value of the investment they would need to sell. It's like nice vacation property. This can be a good investment too but in order to realize the financial benefit of that investment you need to give up enjoyment of the long-weekends and peaceful vacations.

  13. #35

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The problem with this logic is that in order to realize the value of the investment they would need to sell. It's like nice vacation property. This can be a good investment too but in order to realize the financial benefit of that investment you need to give up enjoyment of the long-weekends and peaceful vacations.
    I would respectfully suggest that the Simons have no issue with liquid assets. They don't have to cash out to live well. In your analogy, you should imagine that they own several investment properties that generate money constantly. Which is rather close to the truth.

    Last estimate I read on Mel was 2.6 billion. That's with a B. He's in the top 300 on Forbes.
    Last edited by danman; 11-16-2013 at 09:35 AM.

  14. #36

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    I agree with danman. It will be an easier decision to go into the luxury tax with a good run in the playoffs and better attendance. Seeing how IU/Samford outdrew an undefeated Pacers team last night, I have concerns.

  15. #37
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,594

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would respectfully suggest that the Simons have no issue with liquid assets. They don't have to cash out to live well. In your analogy, you should imagine that they own several investment properties that generate money constantly. Which is rather close to the truth.

    Last estimate I read on Mel was 2.6 billion. That's with a B. He's in the top 300 on Forbes.
    Well, yeah, you don't have a lot of expenses when you're dead...
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to BillS For This Useful Post:


  17. #38
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,108
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    If Scola is dropped and Copeland is released under the stretch provision. That would be enough to sign Lance I think. That means we would need a backup 4. And without a first round draft pick we will need one in the 2nd round or FA. I would love to get Tony Mitchell or someone like him. If we find another diamond in the rough, maybe we can get another Lance type acquisition.

  18. #39
    Flipped Off The Refs Larry Staverman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    515
    Mood

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Last estimate I read on Mel was 2.6 billion. That's with a B. He's in the top 300 on Forbes.

    Mel Simon died September 16, 2009, and his estate has been probated, thus he is currently worth the
    equivalent of Blutarsky's G.P.A. which would be $0.00

  19. #40
    Member Downtown Bang!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St Paul MN
    Posts
    535

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would respectfully suggest that the Simons have no issue with liquid assets. They don't have to cash out to live well. In your analogy, you should imagine that they own several investment properties that generate money constantly. Which is rather close to the truth.

    Last estimate I read on Mel was 2.6 billion. That's with a B. He's in the top 300 on Forbes.
    Your original take didn't consider the Simon's other investments. Only the premise that the Simons could justify increasing expenses (and increase the risk for negative annual operating income) based on the long-term increase in value of the franchise.

    Certainly if the Simon family views the franchise as a luxary item and in turn values the non-financial/emotional benefits of competing for chamionships above the financial benefits of a healthy company they could choose to subsidize the team with personal wealth. Key word there is personal wealth. The Simon Property Group is a public company so no funds from that entity could be used to subsidize the franchise.

    The Simon family did not accumlate that kind of personal wealth managing organizations based on emotions. They are likely just as emotionally attached to SPG as they are the Pacers. Would anyone here ever expect them to subsidize SPG out of their personal assets if it were currently operating at a loss?

    As for the argument that a long playoff runs or a championship would result in enough additional revenue to offset the salary, luxary tax expenses and the potential for loss of revenue sharing dollars? This is just pure speculation and probably wishful thinking. The Simon's are experienced business people. They have done the math on those scenarios and based on the consistent comments coming from the franchise it doesn't add up.

  20. #41

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Well, yeah, you don't have a lot of expenses when you're dead...
    Dammit Herb! You'll pay Mr. Snarky.

  21. #42

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Your original take didn't consider the Simon's other investments. Only the premise that the Simons could justify increasing expenses (and increase the risk for negative annual operating income) based on the long-term increase in value of the franchise.

    Certainly if the Simon family views the franchise as a luxary item and in turn values the non-financial/emotional benefits of competing for chamionships above the financial benefits of a healthy company they could choose to subsidize the team with personal wealth. Key word there is personal wealth. The Simon Property Group is a public company so no funds from that entity could be used to subsidize the franchise.

    The Simon family did not accumlate that kind of personal wealth managing organizations based on emotions. They are likely just as emotionally attached to SPG as they are the Pacers. Would anyone here ever expect them to subsidize SPG out of their personal assets if it were currently operating at a loss?

    As for the argument that a long playoff runs or a championship would result in enough additional revenue to offset the salary, luxary tax expenses and the potential for loss of revenue sharing dollars? This is just pure speculation and probably wishful thinking. The Simon's are experienced business people. They have done the math on those scenarios and based on the consistent comments coming from the franchise it doesn't add up.
    Don't know the Simons, but few owners of pro teams view them as dispassionately as you suggest. In fact, they're usually huge fanboys.

    Doesn't mean they don't watch their money. Maybe the cap is an absolute to Simon. But I'd guess otherwise. And speaking of "pure speculation" I think a magnate is used to the idea. If we go to the finals, I think a few million in tax could be well worth a few years as an elite team.

  22. #43
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,594

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Dammit Herb! You'll pay Mr. Snarky.


    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Don't know the Simons, but few owners of pro teams view them as dispassionately as you suggest. In fact, they're usually huge fanboys.

    Doesn't mean they don't watch their money. Maybe the cap is an absolute to Simon. But I'd guess otherwise. And speaking of "pure speculation" I think a magnate is used to the idea. If we go to the finals, I think a few million in tax could be well worth a few years as an elite team.
    Most owners don't have to be begged by their city to buy the team.

    I think Mel was (or at least became) a fanboy. Herb wants to see the team do well and enjoys a win and is unhappy with a loss. But that situation isn't the same as (say) Mark Cuban - who, for all that he is a fanboy, took a huge nosedive to get under the potential LT.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  23. #44
    Member Downtown Bang!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St Paul MN
    Posts
    535

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by danman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Don't know the Simons, but few owners of pro teams view them as dispassionately as you suggest. In fact, they're usually huge fanboys.

    Doesn't mean they don't watch their money. Maybe the cap is an absolute to Simon. But I'd guess otherwise. And speaking of "pure speculation" I think a magnate is used to the idea. If we go to the finals, I think a few million in tax could be well worth a few years as an elite team.
    I hope they do dip their toe in the tax pool and keep Lance, Scola & Ian along with the current core for a couple more years. Problem is every recent indication from the franchise does not support this path and the reasons given are financial in nature. It could be simple posturing and the ultimate decision could surprise but again probably just wishful thinking.

  24. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Side
    Posts
    4,177

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance's past, present, and future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The only thing we know for certain is he got over 25%, we won't know how much over until the contract "leaks" next year.
    You were correct. According to HoopsWorld, if George makes an All-NBA team, he'll get 27 percent of the max, not 30 percent. He gave the Pacers a slight discount.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/paul-georg...-not-quite-max
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to shags For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •