Page 8 of 68 FirstFirst ... 4567891011121858 ... LastLast
Results 176 to 200 of 1696

Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

  1. #176
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Great. I'll file that away.

    Just to be clear, though, 14-15ppg would make him the team's #2 scorer. Lance is averaging 14ppg, West and Hill are both under 12. That's not because they're not a threat, it's because the team is operating as a unit. I don't care about Danny's ppg nearly as much as his FG%.
    Dannys not going to average 15 on this team. he doesn't have to. an 80% Granger with 25 minutes in a 5 game sample size is probably something like this at max as this team is constructed for success.

    12, 18, 16, 10, 13. 13ppg at best for an 80% Granger on this roster. Were loaded.

    I would prefer lockdown defense 4 boards and 10 pts in 25.

  2. #177
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,647

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Excellent points. Upgrading the bench with his expiring contract is a great idea. We have our starting unit. We have our backup PG. We could upgrade the bench with a young offensive talent. Maybe a wing or rim protector.
    The problem with upgrading our bench is that any contracts we bring back are likely to make it so we can't afford Scola. I would imagine Scola is a better fit for our team than any other bench player we can bring in.

    That's before you bring in the logistics of using an expiring contract to bring back manageable contracts. If people are trading for an expiring, they typically want to rid themselves of good players that are overpaid for multiple years. If Granger is good enough to net you both good players and cap flexibility, Granger is probably the better player this year and provides us the most cap flexibility.
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  3. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:


  4. #178
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,446

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Great. I'll file that away.

    Just to be clear, though, 14-15ppg would make him the team's #2 scorer. Lance is averaging 14ppg, West and Hill are both under 12. That's not because they're not a threat, it's because the team is operating as a unit. I don't care about Danny's ppg nearly as much as his FG%.
    I know that. If Granger was truly healthy he is a better shooter than all three of those guys. Not necessarily a better player, but certainly a better shooter. So...I think the 14-15ppg is a good number where 17ppg...like I said...is tops on a contender. Recall the dog teams he played on and averaged 20 or even more. Not a good comparison at all. I would be really, really surprised and happy if he averaged 17ppg for us this year and didn't hurt us in other ways by taking minutes from Lance.

  5. #179
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I truly hope you can bump this thread and he exceeds my expectations. We are all Pacer fans. We just have different views on how this will turn out.

    Some of you might remember Jim Jackson out of Ohio State. He had jumper's knee as well at just about the same age. He did stay in the league for another 5 years.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jacksji01.html
    Bender didn't have jumpers knee did he.? What was it .. accellateredd knee spurts like Oden?

  6. #180
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,446

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The problem with upgrading our bench is that any contracts we bring back are likely to make it so we can't afford Scola. I would imagine Scola is a better fit for our team than any other bench player we can bring in.

    That's before you bring in the logistics of using an expiring contract to bring back manageable contracts. If people are trading for an expiring, they typically want to rid themselves of good players that are overpaid for multiple years. If Granger is good enough to net you both good players and cap flexibility, Granger is probably the better player this year and provides us the most cap flexibility.
    Here's how it works. We give them an expiring. They give us a semi-bad contract and a great prospect to replace Scola and ultimately West. Recall that Lance and PG don't hit prime for another 4 years when those guys are retiring.

  7. #181

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here's how it works. We give them an expiring. They give us a semi-bad contract and a great prospect to replace Scola and ultimately West. Recall that Lance and PG don't hit prime for another 4 years when those guys are retiring.
    And why would they give us a great prospect?

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to immortality For This Useful Post:


  9. #182
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,446

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And why would they give us a great prospect?
    $ and to take a chance on Granger. But mainly for the expiring contract and to resign other players.

  10. #183
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The problem with upgrading our bench is that any contracts we bring back are likely to make it so we can't afford Scola. I would imagine Scola is a better fit for our team than any other bench player we can bring in.

    That's before you bring in the logistics of using an expiring contract to bring back manageable contracts. If people are trading for an expiring, they typically want to rid themselves of good players that are overpaid for multiple years. If Granger is good enough to net you both good players and cap flexibility, Granger is probably the better player this year and provides us the most cap flexibility.
    great points. whats so phenomenal is there are zero bad contracts on this team. GG is gone! Ya I don't know what to think of what to do with Scola. hell if I was playing nba2k14 or whatever I would be up all nite with this teams roster. lol.

    Bird has built a monster.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to PacersPride For This Useful Post:

    owl

  12. #184
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here's how it works. We give them an expiring. They give us a semi-bad contract and a great prospect to replace Scola and ultimately West. Recall that Lance and PG don't hit prime for another 4 years when those guys are retiring.
    hell w all that. were not giving up any players in the starting 5 or named scola.
    Last edited by PacersPride; 11-14-2013 at 11:53 PM.

  13. #185
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,446

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    hell w all that. were not giving up any players in the starting 5 or named scola.
    No, no, no. This would be for a young player to ultimately replace some of our older players. Not for at least a couple years.

  14. #186
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,741

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would be really, really surprised and happy if he averaged 17ppg for us this year and didn't hurt us in other ways by taking minutes from Lance.
    Before the season started, I said I could see the Pacers winning the regular season without a single player averaging 18 ppg. Paul's explosion has made it unlikely that he'll go back to that scoring level, but I wouldn't be surprised if no other player on the team averaged 15ppg.

    I'm just saying that points won't be an adequate metric for any player on this team. We could win a championship with David West giving us career low in PPG. Roy is looking great and not even averaging double digits.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  15. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Anthem For This Useful Post:


  16. #187
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,647

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here's how it works. We give them an expiring. They give us a semi-bad contract and a great prospect to replace Scola and ultimately West. Recall that Lance and PG don't hit prime for another 4 years when those guys are retiring.
    How are we supposed to afford the semi-bad contract AND the prospect AND keep the starting 4 together AND resign Lance?

    With the switch from Granger + Paul George to just George we only gain enough money to pick up a player on a minimum salary. Or are you saying it would be better to trade one of our starting unit away so we can have a project big man who may or may not work out? Because if we don't trade a starter away and we pick up a bad contract we don't have enough money to resign Lance.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 11-15-2013 at 12:03 AM.
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:


  18. #188
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,660

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here's how it works. We give them an expiring. They give us a semi-bad contract and a great prospect to replace Scola and ultimately West. Recall that Lance and PG don't hit prime for another 4 years when those guys are retiring.
    Four years, hell!

    I don't know about your thoughts, but the Pacers are in win it all NOW mode. They are in that mode right now, they will be in that mode next season, the season after that, and so on. For several years, anyway. That means we aren't taking back any bad contracts, period. We can't afford to.

    And we don't get rid of Scola. We keep Lance. If Granger proves worth keeping, we even pursue it, even while knowing it's nearly impossible. We keep all present starters, plus Scola and Watson. To make these things happen, we do as many of the following things as necessary to make it happen, in the order listed.
    1. Dump Copeland.
    2. Dump Mahinmi for a less expensive option at center.
    3. Dump Solomon Hill for a future 2nd round pick.
    4. Don't pick up the team option on Sloan.
    5. Don't pick up the team option on OJ.

    Even if we want Danny, but we know early on that we just won't be able to make it happen, then hopefully 2 through 5 above will not be necessary.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to beast23 For This Useful Post:


  20. #189
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,446

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How are we supposed to afford the semi-bad contract AND the prospect AND keep the starting 4 together AND resign Lance?

    With the switch from Granger + Paul George to just George we only gain enough money to pick up a player on a minimum salary. Or are you saying it would be better to trade one of our starting unit away so we can have a project big man who may or may not work out? Because if we don't trade a starter away and we pick up a bad contract we don't have enough money to resign Lance.
    A trade could work. We would need to take an expiring from them as well to get it done (i.e. to match salaries within the pct necessary). But it could work pretty easily with the right trading partner if a expiring the size of the minimum were a big enough carrot along with rolling the dice with Granger. It would never involve the starters or Scola.

  21. #190
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,446

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Four years, hell!

    I don't know about your thoughts, but the Pacers are in win it all NOW mode. They are in that mode right now, they will be in that mode next season, the season after that, and so on. For several years, anyway. That means we aren't taking back any bad contracts, period. We can't afford to.

    And we don't get rid of Scola. We keep Lance. If Granger proves worth keeping, we even pursue it, even while knowing it's nearly impossible. We keep all present starters, plus Scola and Watson. To make these things happen, we do as many of the following things as necessary to make it happen, in the order listed.
    1. Dump Copeland.
    2. Dump Mahinmi for a less expensive option at center.
    3. Dump Solomon Hill for a future 2nd round pick.
    4. Don't pick up the team option on Sloan.
    5. Don't pick up the team option on OJ.

    Even if we want Danny, but we know early on that we just won't be able to make it happen, then hopefully 2 through 5 above will not be necessary.
    You completely misunderstood my post. There is no intention of moving West or Scola for years.

    Edit: I thought that was clear from the context. I see how it could be read though.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 11-15-2013 at 12:15 AM.

  22. #191
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,446

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    ...and the alternative solution is to let Danny walk and get nothing in return? It's been done I suppose...

  23. #192
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,245

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Four years, hell!

    I don't know about your thoughts, but the Pacers are in win it all NOW mode. They are in that mode right now, they will be in that mode next season, the season after that, and so on. For several years, anyway. That means we aren't taking back any bad contracts, period. We can't afford to.

    And we don't get rid of Scola. We keep Lance. If Granger proves worth keeping, we even pursue it, even while knowing it's nearly impossible. We keep all present starters, plus Scola and Watson. To make these things happen, we do as many of the following things as necessary to make it happen, in the order listed.
    1. Dump Copeland.
    2. Dump Mahinmi for a less expensive option at center.
    3. Dump Solomon Hill for a future 2nd round pick.
    4. Don't pick up the team option on Sloan.
    5. Don't pick up the team option on OJ.

    Even if we want Danny, but we know early on that we just won't be able to make it happen, then hopefully 2 through 5 above will not be necessary.
    1) okay w losing Copeland. tho I think he has value. get to this in a min.
    2) lovin mahinmis work this year. not willing to give him up. need to add to the bigs not subtract. mahinhmi is busting his tail.
    3) yall are down on solo ive noticed. all good. he's a wing they are replaceable.
    4) like what I see from sloan so far. hes cheap
    5) I like OJ. maybe limited but I like him. hes cheap.

    down with moving cope,mahinmi, granger but were talkkng nba 2k here now. I certainly do not doubt Bird for a moment at all.

  24. #193
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,152

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Trading Danny simply is not an option if you want to re-sign Lance. If Larry was able to pull off such a trade where we would still somehow able to keep Lance, it would be the greatest trade ever period. You only even consider trading Danny if you know there is no way you are able to re-sign Lance or Danny, and if that is the case then the right choice is to just ride them out and go for a championship. Otherwise it comes down to who can you afford Danny or Lance, and Lance's age is the tie breaker.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Eleazar For This Useful Post:


  26. #194

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm just saying that points won't be an adequate metric for any player on this team
    Points per game is never an adequate metric for any player on any team. It's as useful as pitcher wins or RBIs in baseball.

  27. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:


  28. #195
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    8,152

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Points per game is never an adequate metric for any player on any team. It's as useful as pitcher wins or RBIs in baseball.
    Basic stats tend to be way overrated, like steals, assists, and rebounds. They are easy to understand, but not always representative of reality. I don't care about how many total rebounds you get, I care about how many offensive rebounds you get and how many offensive rebounds you give up. I don't care about how many steals you got, I care about how well you prevent your opponent from scoring, and I don't care how many assists you got I care about if you made the right pass to the right person. These stats can be a simplistic representation of this, but often are not completely accurate. You can make the right pass every time, but if the shooter doesn't make the shot you don't get the assist.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Eleazar For This Useful Post:


  30. #196
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,647

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ...and the alternative solution is to let Danny walk and get nothing in return? It's been done I suppose...
    Without Granger right now we have hibbert, west, PG, lance, hill, mahinmi, scola, and CJ playing. That is 8 solid rotational guys on your team assuming you resign lance. You also have cope, OJ, and Sloan. If we just keep our team intact we are stacked.

    I men, you're looking around for a team in the league that wants an expiring. That apparently has value. Why is it not value for us? To me, the logical thing to do is wait until we need to replace west and then use the MLE to sign a starting caliber PF. Teams aren't falling over each other trying to give up good prospects for expiring contracts.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:


  32. #197

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Basic stats tend to be way overrated, like steals, assists, and rebounds. They are easy to understand, but not always representative of reality. I don't care about how many total rebounds you get, I care about how many offensive rebounds you get and how many offensive rebounds you give up. I don't care about how many steals you got, I care about how well you prevent your opponent from scoring, and I don't care how many assists you got I care about if you made the right pass to the right person. These stats can be a simplistic representation of this, but often are not completely accurate. You can make the right pass every time, but if the shooter doesn't make the shot you don't get the assist.
    Right, they provide no context. If a guy scores 20 a night clearly he's got some talent. But is he getting 20 a night by being Rudy Gay or by being Steph Curry? Baseball's well into their "advanced stats" revolution, basketball needs to get there. The fans I mean, the front offices definitely already are. The "advanced" NBA stats aren't even complicated, not like it's WAR or FIP or something. Just stuff like eFG% and rebound rates tell you far more about a player.

    Oh, and this isn't some kinda rant on Anthem or anything, just an opportunity presented itself I guess. I just really hate basic counting stats.

  33. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:


  34. #198
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    4,018

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ...and the alternative solution is to let Danny walk and get nothing in return? It's been done I suppose...
    Sadly that's the price of being all in now. Granger isn't going anywhere this year and it doesn't matter if he returns to all star form or doesn't play another game. There are any number of ways things can play out between now and the end of the season but the most likely outcome is that Granger will be gone after the run this year.

  35. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Pacerized For This Useful Post:


  36. #199
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    4,018

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Dannys not going to average 15 on this team. he doesn't have to. an 80% Granger with 25 minutes in a 5 game sample size is probably something like this at max as this team is constructed for success.

    12, 18, 16, 10, 13. 13ppg at best for an 80% Granger on this roster. Were loaded.

    I would prefer lockdown defense 4 boards and 10 pts in 25.
    If Danny returns to complete health with no limits then you'll eventually see PG and Lance lose a few minutes which is a good thing since they're both playing too many now and with that they'll both likely drop in ppg a little which can also be a good thing to have an even more balanced attack. I can see Granger being our 2cd. leading scorer in the scenerio. There are way too many unanswered questions to say what will happen yet and we're still only 8 games into a long season.

  37. #200
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,830

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ...and the alternative solution is to let Danny walk and get nothing in return? It's been done I suppose...
    Which is worth more, the LT space or the players we'd get in return for him and not being able to pay Lance because we'd have extra contract years for that equivalent salary?

    We do NOT "get nothing in return". We get the exact same salary space someone else would be trading for him to get. Why are people convinced he is hugely valuable in that fashion to another team but for us to take advantage of it would be a waste?
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  38. The Following User Says Thank You to BillS For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •