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Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Your criticisms may apply to some posters here, but there are others of us who simply believe that a 100 percent healthy Danny may not be the 2nd best wing man on our team.
    Who is saying he would be the 2nd best wing man?
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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  3. #127

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    I sure would like to see Danny play 15-20 games before we decide we need to give him away in order to save the chemistry of the team. Seems to me he has always been the kind of player the Coaching staff asked him to be.

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  5. #128
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Three pages of "black hole" conversation and nobody has mentioned that Danny was passing the ball extremely willingly and extremely well in the preseason.

    Danny's willing and able to pass, if he has good targets.
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  7. #129
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Lance is a black hole ?? Shooting 48% (and that ungodly 52% from 3) - I almost think he should shoot more. But his shots (all 12 a game) come completely in the offense.

    Black Hole ?? Sorry - just don't see it.
    I don't think that anyone said that Lance is a black hole. The point is that no Pacer has been a black hole after Vogel took over.
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  8. #130
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Your criticisms may apply to some posters here, but there are others of us who simply believe that a 100 percent healthy Danny may not be the 2nd best wing man on our team.
    And there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is when people resort to insulting Danny for their own personal reasons and then act like they are the victims.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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  10. #131
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Yeah, I never liked that exam thing either
    Man, that was a darn good line I wasted.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  11. #132
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Who is saying he would be the 2nd best wing man?
    I think some believe that. I'm guessing Able believes a 100 percent healthy Granger is our 2nd best wing man. I could be wrong.
    .

    .

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    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  12. #133
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I think some believe that. I'm guessing Able believes a 100 percent healthy Granger is our 2nd best wing man. I could be wrong.
    At 100% he defiantly is, but I'm not going to assume he is going to ever be 100% until he proves it.

  13. #134
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Three pages of "black hole" conversation and nobody has mentioned that Danny was passing the ball extremely willingly and extremely well in the preseason.

    Danny's willing and able to pass, if he has good targets.
    You know your argument is failing when you have to use "pre-season" to help prove your point
    David "And One" West

  14. #135
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I think some believe that. I'm guessing Able believes a 100 percent healthy Granger is our 2nd best wing man. I could be wrong.
    I think there are valid reasons for at least making the comparison IF AND ONLY IF we're talking about a 100% Granger. At this point, given the differences in the way the team offense was designed (and in the skill levels surrounding the players in question) I don't understand why this WOULDN'T be arguable one way or the other - we aren't comparing a scrub to a superstar, we're comparing the guy who was the #1 option for years to the guy who has become the #2 or #3 (depending where you put Hibbert) option now. People might hasve their opinions one way or the other, but having the discussion isn't somehow ridiculous.

    However, some people assume that others are EXPECTING a 100% Granger, others think people's current reactions are always BASED on a 100% Granger, and I think for the most part NO ONE is expecting or completely comparing a 100% Granger. I suspect we need to be clearer which Danny we are talking about when making comparisons.
    BillS

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  16. #136
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    You know your argument is failing when you have to use "pre-season" to help prove your point
    Why? It would seem to me that how a player is flowing within the offense is EXACTLY the kind of thing you can take away from preseason.
    BillS

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  18. #137
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    You know your argument is failing when you have to use "pre-season" to help prove your point
    Not really. Those are the most recent games Danny has played. It was only 3 weeks ago. Why is that not relevant?

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  20. #138
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by rabid View Post
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    Not really. Those are the most recent games Danny has played. It was only 3 weeks ago. Why is that not relevant?
    Nobody tries in pre-season. You know who else looked good in the pre-season, Solomon friggin Jones
    David "And One" West

  21. #139
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Nobody tries in pre-season. You know who else looked good in the pre-season, Solomon friggin Jones
    The preseason comment was just about Danny's willingness to pass, not about how well he was playing. Are you just trying to be argumentative?

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  23. #140
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I think some believe that. I'm guessing Able believes a 100 percent healthy Granger is our 2nd best wing man. I could be wrong.
    Okay, cause I was going to say that's not my position. Danny on this team is a complimentary player, who would be best suited as a kick out shooter. Maybe on another team he would still good enough to be second fiddle, but he does nothing better offensively than PG/Lance (and even GHill) at this point in his career, other than being a straight shooter.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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  25. #141
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Danny was held out of Wednesday's practice with soreness. Has anyone heard if he practiced today?

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/grang...sdays-practice
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

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  27. #142
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Agness tweeted earlier that he didn't practice today because of an upper respiratory infection.

    Can't wait until that gets spun as the return of sinuspoutis, a la Tinsley.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  29. #143

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    FREE VNZLA!!!!!
    This really infraction worthy? I guess Vnz really is in some deep ****

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So what did Danny do with the ball, when he didn't shoot it? The first answer I can think of, going with the logic that Danny doesn't pass, would be that he just turns the ball over. Well he has a career TO average of 2, and so does PG, so that rules out that answer.

    So maybe he just didn't have the ball in his hands that much, and when he did, he just shot. So we look at Danny's usage rate. I see that Danny has/had a usage rate of anywhere from 23% to 29.6%. PG's usage rate? 29.7%. WOW!!! They had the ball in their hands similiar amout of time, have similiar shot attempts, but one is a black hole and the other one atleast knows how to pass.

    Don't equate assist numbers to how often a player passes.
    Intuition over Integers!!!

    I agree. We're watching the same games, just coming to a different conclusion. Danny IMO is a ball stopper and lacks vision. I don't see that with Paul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Danny Granger has never attempted 37 shots in a single game. Granger and Gay are not similar at all. Luol Deng would be a good comparison with a healthy Danny but Gay is completely different than both of them.
    I don't mean a similar playing style. I'm comparing their overall impact in a game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Here we go again with the "better" argument. I guess that the TS% thread didn't teach anything to some people.

    Allow me to repeat it:

    Better scoring efficiency does not equal better.

    Since86 and I didn't focus on who is "better". We are just trying to debunk the "black hole" argument.
    He used scoring efficiency to mock my opinion that Gay and Granger are similar caliber players. Unless he thought I meant similar style like you. If so my bad for the confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    And there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is when people resort to insulting Danny for their own personal reasons and then act like they are the victims.
    How did I insult Danny for saying he's on the same level as Gay, and what is my agenda? Was the black hole comment that harsh? Smh, this place is tightly wound these days...

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  31. #144
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    How did I insult Danny for saying he's on the same level as Gay, and what is my agenda? Was the black hole comment that harsh? Smh, this place is tightly wound these days...
    Well, yeah, for a team trying to share the ball calling a player a black hole is essentially saying he's not good enough to even play spot minutes. That's pretty harsh.

    If all you mean is that he shoots more than he should, there are lots of ways to say it other than implying he's selfish and never gioes up the ball. Which leads to the question you were asked - if he shoots the same number of times as PG and turns it over the same number of times as PG, what is he doing the rest of the time that is different from what PG does such that he's a black hole?
    BillS

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  33. #145

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Agness tweeted earlier that he didn't practice today because of an upper respiratory infection.

    Can't wait until that gets spun as the return of sinuspoutis, a la Tinsley.
    we need to put Danny in a bubble, his body hates him

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  35. #146
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I don't mean a similar playing style. I'm comparing their overall impact in a game.
    I disagree as far as their overall impact is concerned (since I believe that Gay, at times, has a negative impact) but as long as you concede that their playing style is different then fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    He used scoring efficiency to mock my opinion that Gay and Granger are similar caliber players. Unless he thought I meant similar style like you. If so my bad for the confusion.
    Here is your initial post:

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Very similar players. Danny's more efficient because he shoots better and gets to the line more, but Gays the better ball handler, better athlete, better in transition. On the exact same level of player IMO... and both can be black holes
    The phrase "very similar players" prompted me to believe that you were talking about playing style. Plus, the "both can be black holes" part reinforced that belief.

    If you were simply talking about caliber then fair enough I guess. I'd still rather have a Granger (if healthy, of course) since he is cheaper and a better shooter but I won't argue against the notion that their caliber is similar. They both are in the 2nd tier of SFs when healthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    How did I insult Danny for saying he's on the same level as Gay, and what is my agenda? Was the black hole comment that harsh? Smh, this place is tightly wound these days...
    Well, I believe that calling someone a black hole is quite unfair when the accusation is untrue. Having said that, you were not among those people I mentioned in that post of mine. The ones that have that agenda know exactly who they are
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

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  36. #147
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    This really infraction worthy? I guess Vnz really is in some deep ****


    I'm surprised I didn't get an infraction for thanking it.

  37. #148
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    OJ nor Solo are anything special on defense. They're average. So if all three are average, I fail to see how defense carries such weight. And OJ guarding the 2, makes Lance guard the 3, which Lance is average at doing.

    So lower it to 10pts, like I've already said. That is double what OJ is giving you.

    Have we really reached the point in absurdity that Orlando Johnson is as good as Danny Granger? Now THAT is funny.
    Nobody is saying that OJ is as good as a healthy Danny Granger.

    But, if you recall, I am saying that OJ is better than a 75% Granger. Let's do the math and start with Granger supporters' favorite subject. Shooting.

    A healthy Granger on this team would average 17ppg. To get his numbers in the past, he averaged about 35.5min/game. At 75% even with those minutes, he's at 12.75ppg shooting 28.8% from 3 and 32.85% overall.

    A healthy OJ is averaging 5.4ppg in 15min/game. If given 35.5 minutes, his average shoots up to 12.78ppg. He's currently shooting 33% from 3 and 42.9% overall. Clearly superior numbers.

    As for defense, I don't need any numbers. To think a Granger moving 75% as slow as he already is...he can't defend the position.

    As for other facets of the game such as rebounds, assists, steals...I don't think any math is necessary there either.

    Really, a 100% healthy Granger is a figment of everyone's imagination...at least for this year. Factor in the likelihood of him staying a Pacer you might as well throw it out the window.

    Still, everyone here, sans Vnzla81, wants to see him return to all-star form. But until he gets on the court and proves it I cannot believe he's going to be a factor this year. Been through too many years with JO to buy it.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 11-14-2013 at 06:54 PM.

  38. #149
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    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I'm surprised I didn't get an infraction for thanking it.
    I'm surprised I didn't get an infraction for thinking it.

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  40. #150

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    A healthy Granger on this team would average 17ppg. To get his numbers in the past, he averaged about 35.5min/game. At 75% even with those minutes, he's at 12.75ppg shooting 28.8% from 3 and 32.85% overall.

    A healthy OJ is averaging 5.4ppg in 15min/game. If given 35.5 minutes, his average shoots up to 12.78ppg. He's currently shooting 33% from 3 and 42.9% overall. Clearly superior numbers.
    This is astounding.

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