# Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

1. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by Heisenberg
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This is astounding.
Keep in mind that's Granger's strong point we are comparing. Yet, it's fact.

2. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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Nobody is saying that OJ is as good as a healthy Danny Granger.

But, if you recall, I am saying that OJ is better than a 75% Granger. Let's do the math and start with Granger supporters' favorite subject. Shooting.

A healthy Granger on this team would average 17ppg. To get his numbers in the past, he averaged about 35.5min/game. At 75% even with those minutes, he's at 12.75ppg shooting 28.8% from 3 and 32.85% overall.

A healthy OJ is averaging 5.4ppg in 15min/game. If given 35.5 minutes, his average shoots up to 12.78ppg. He's currently shooting 33% from 3 and 42.9% overall. Clearly superior numbers.

Wow dude. Your numbers for Granger are horribly wrong, you cannot just adjust down percentages by using percentages. To say he is shooting 33% using your math is horribly wrong. At 17 ppg Granger attempted 16 shots on average, he won't be getting as many shot attempts, playing 20 mpg, so if you say you get 75% Granger and he would actually only score 7 ppg 20 minutes a game while attempting 9 shots a game, which ends up with better percentages than OJ.

This is the classic case of bedazzling with ********.

4. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by able
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why not read what he wrote ??

I'm sure you don't need me to break that sentence down for you

5. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by Since86
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Agness tweeted earlier that he didn't practice today because of an upper respiratory infection.

Can't wait until that gets spun as the return of sinuspoutis, a la Tinsley.
Upper respiratory infection? geez....that came out of nowhere....if not left field.

6. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by immortality
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Wow dude. Your numbers for Granger are horribly wrong, you cannot just adjust down percentages by using percentages. To say he is shooting 33% using your math is horribly wrong. At 17 ppg Granger attempted 16 shots on average, he won't be getting as many shot attempts, playing 20 mpg, so if you say you get 75% Granger and he would actually only score 7 ppg 20 minutes a game while attempting 9 shots a game, which ends up with better percentages than OJ.

This is the classic case of bedazzling with ********.
Well, he shot 20% from 3 last year at less than 100%. Why in the world would you think he'd again be shooting 38% from 3 when he's 75% of his former self?

Come on. There is no bedazzling going on. Slow Granger down 75% and I'd be scoring on him.

7. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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Well, he shot 20% from 3 last year at less than 100%. Why in the world would you think he'd again be shooting 38% from 3 when he's 75% of his former self?

Come on. There is no bedazzling going on. Slow Granger down 75% and I'd be scoring on him.
I'm not assuming anything, I just wanted to point out your math was disgustingly wrong.

9. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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Well, he shot 20% from 3 last year at less than 100%. Why in the world would you think he'd again be shooting 38% from 3 when he's 75% of his former self?

Come on. There is no bedazzling going on. Slow Granger down 75% and I'd be scoring on him.
Except all the lack of mobility in the world doesn't stop a standstill jumpshot from being a standstill jump shot. I just cannot actually believe that you think that a player being "at 75%" means literally everything is chopped down, especially from somebody who has made it a point to make sure people know he is educated.

And if its supposed to be some sort of commentary on how stats are overused it doesn't apply because the stats are dependent on a players performance, not the other way around. Even if he is overall less potent offensively than he was before, he will also be taking fewer shots and have less attention on him. So it is possible, and I would actually say probable, that he will be a less proficient scorer while posting more efficient numbers.

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11. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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Well, he shot 20% from 3 last year at less than 100%. Why in the world would you think he'd again be shooting 38% from 3 when he's 75% of his former self?

Come on. There is no bedazzling going on. Slow Granger down 75% and I'd be scoring on him.
First, are you saying Danny comes back worse than what he was in 5 games last year?

Second are you saying we should expect him to be 25% of his former self and should be out of the league?

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13. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by aamcguy
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Except all the lack of mobility in the world doesn't stop a standstill jumpshot from being a standstill jump shot. I just cannot actually believe that you think that a player being "at 75%" means literally everything is chopped down, especially from somebody who has made it a point to make sure ppl knows he is educated.

And if its supposed to be some sort of commentary on how stats are overused it doesn't apply because the stats are dependent on a players performance, not the other way around. Even if he is overall less potent offensively than he was before, he will also be taking fewer shots and have less attention on him. So it is possible, and I would actually say probable, that he will be a less proficient scorer while posting more efficient numbers.

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If a guy doesn't have his legs, he's not going to shoot well. I don't care if he's standing still. He still has to push off and he's not going to be given all the time in the world to shoot.

Also, even if his numbers are a little better given a small number of minutes. What about defense? Is he going to defend standing still too?

14. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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If a guy doesn't have his legs, he's not going to shoot well. I don't care if he's standing still. He still has to push off and he's not going to be given all the time in the world to shoot.

Also, even if his numbers are a little better given a small number of minutes. What about defense? Is he going to defend standing still too?
As long as his walker is equipped with tennis balls I think he will be fine.

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16. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

I guess the elephant in the room to me is even if Granger returns plays lights out. The knees are still an issue to me. At this point in his contract and the continued maturity of Lance, it makes Granger expendable in terms of a small market Franchise.

Can Granger be trusted. At this point I do have my concerns. Not overly concerned like some and declare it that Granger is done. With todays advancements in sports injuries anything is certainly possible. At that rate of a 80-100% Granger we cannot afford him. Don't get me wrong I prob still take EJ over Granger at this time, but both players have red flags. From a business perspective the Pacers brass has to take these things into consideration.

To be clear. I believe Granger will come back 80%+. However, purely from the best interests of the Pacers do we need Danny any longer. Our starting 5 is intact and solid. Pacers can certainly still upgrade the bench. Granger is a great player but not sure he is willing to accept not starting. A healthy DG with an expiring nets some assets. Not an issue now but this team will need a PF at some point to groom. Another wing or simply draft picks. Grangers salary is not manageable.

Simply comes down to do we ride Granger for the Gold or add to the bench/core/future and still go for Gold. Don't wanna see Granger walk with nothing in return. I feel that was a mistake with Hansbrough.

Feel like we could have an elite bench if we trade Danny. and only say that because I don't see Simon paying the Luxury even if we do win a championship.

We don't have the knicks payroll so these things are relevant.

my hunch is Granger is gone at the deadline and no matter what we get in return its gonna be sad to see Danny go.

* I would retract all this if Danny would accept the MLE salary. juust don't see it.

Pacers would still send him a championship ring. He is as part of this as any Pacer is.

17. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by PacersPride
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I guess the elephant in the room to me is even if Granger returns plays lights out. The knees are still an issue to me. At this point in his contract and the continued maturity of Lance, it makes Granger expendable in terms of a small market Franchise.

Can Granger be trusted. At this point I do have my concerns. Not overly concerned like some and declare it that Granger is done. With todays advancements in sports injuries anything is certainly possible. At that rate of a 80-100% Granger we cannot afford him. Don't get me wrong I prob still take EJ over Granger at this time, but both players have red flags. From a business perspective the Pacers brass has to take these things into consideration.

To be clear. I believe Granger will come back 80%+. However, purely from the best interests of the Pacers do we need Danny any longer. Our starting 5 is intact and solid. Pacers can certainly still upgrade the bench. Granger is a great player but not sure he is willing to accept not starting. A healthy DG with an expiring nets some assets. Not an issue now but this team will need a PF at some point to groom. Another wing or simply draft picks. Grangers salary is not manageable.

Simply comes down to do we ride Granger for the Gold or add to the bench/core/future and still go for Gold. Don't wanna see Granger walk with nothing in return. I feel that was a mistake with Hansbrough.

Feel like we could have an elite bench if we trade Danny. and only say that because I don't see Simon paying the Luxury even if we do win a championship.

We don't have the knicks payroll so these things are relevant.

my hunch is Granger is gone at the deadline and no matter what we get in return its gonna be sad to see Danny go.

* I would retract all this if Danny would accept the MLE salary. juust don't see it.

Pacers would still send him a championship ring. He is as part of this as any Pacer is.
Aren't talking about the future, talking about the present and how he can add value. Also Indiana isn't trading Granger, they don't want to take salary back.

19. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by Heisenberg
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This is astounding.
Yes, astoundingly ridiculous.

21. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by PacersPride
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Can Granger be trusted.
Just so we are clear here, are you asking whether Danny can be trusted or whether his knees can be trusted?

22. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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Nobody is saying that OJ is as good as a healthy Danny Granger.

But, if you recall, I am saying that OJ is better than a 75% Granger. Let's do the math and start with Granger supporters' favorite subject. Shooting.

A healthy Granger on this team would average 17ppg. To get his numbers in the past, he averaged about 35.5min/game. At 75% even with those minutes, he's at 12.75ppg shooting 28.8% from 3 and 32.85% overall.

A healthy OJ is averaging 5.4ppg in 15min/game. If given 35.5 minutes, his average shoots up to 12.78ppg. He's currently shooting 33% from 3 and 42.9% overall. Clearly superior numbers.

rofl, what? Did you use Scott Steiner math to come up with these numbers?

23. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by PacersPride
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Grangers salary is not manageable.

Simply comes down to do we ride Granger for the Gold or add to the bench/core/future and still go for Gold. Don't wanna see Granger walk with nothing in return. I feel that was a mistake with Hansbrough.
Simply put, we cannot know the contract situation until the end of the year. Once we know how much Lance can demand and how much Danny can demand than we can make an accurate judgement as to if his contract is manageable or not. Danny's knee is most likely going to prevent him from maximizing his contract, so odds are you will be able to sign him for less than similar talents sign for.

We will get something by not trading him, cap space to sign someone. Trading a player just because you can't afford him next season is a terrible strategy, it doesn't really get you much usually. Granger isn't going to bring back young cheap talent with potential. All you are going to get is overpayed back-ups who make it impossible to re-sign Lance, and decrease your odds of winning a championship.

25. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by beast23
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Just so we are clear here, are you asking whether Danny can be trusted or whether his knees can be trusted?
i think this one is self explanatory but yes the knees. again. with today modern medicine I do believe in miracles.

* to the other post below. im talking about the present as well as the next decade. sorry but were a small market franchise and financial matters is always present. I don't see how the pacers can afford him next year. I want more than one championship. With this roster its very possible. an elite bench is not easy to come by. you gotta give to receive.

26. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by PacersPride
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i think this one is self explanatory but yes the knees. again. with today modern medicine I do believe in miracles.

* to the other post below. im talking about the present as well as the next decade. sorry but were a small market franchise and financial matters is always present. I don't see how the pacers can afford him next year. I want more than one championship. With this roster its very possible. an elite bench is not easy to come by. you gotta give to receive.
Excellent points. Upgrading the bench with his expiring contract is a great idea. We have our starting unit. We have our backup PG. We could upgrade the bench with a young offensive talent. Maybe a wing or rim protector.

27. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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Nobody is saying that OJ is as good as a healthy Danny Granger.

But, if you recall, I am saying that OJ is better than a 75% Granger. Let's do the math and start with Granger supporters' favorite subject. Shooting.

A healthy Granger on this team would average 17ppg. To get his numbers in the past, he averaged about 35.5min/game. At 75% even with those minutes, he's at 12.75ppg shooting 28.8% from 3 and 32.85% overall.

A healthy OJ is averaging 5.4ppg in 15min/game. If given 35.5 minutes, his average shoots up to 12.78ppg. He's currently shooting 33% from 3 and 42.9% overall. Clearly superior numbers.

As for defense, I don't need any numbers. To think a Granger moving 75% as slow as he already is...he can't defend the position.

As for other facets of the game such as rebounds, assists, steals...I don't think any math is necessary there either.
Oh man, we've hit rock bottom here. There's no point in discussing this further, we've clarified our irreconcilable differences.

We can revisit this once Danny gets back. Until then, there's no amount of logic BnG is going to listen to. You guys are welcome to try and convince him, but at this point I figure we'll just have to let Danny do the convincing.

Originally Posted by BnG
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until he gets on the court and proves it I cannot believe he's going to be a factor this year.
Just out of curiosity, BnG, what would it take to make you say "I was wrong about Danny?" What would it take for you to consider him "a factor?"

29. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by beast23
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Yes, astoundingly ridiculous.
Precisely. I mean...wow.

31. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by Eleazar
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Simply put, we cannot know the contract situation until the end of the year. Once we know how much Lance can demand and how much Danny can demand than we can make an accurate judgement as to if his contract is manageable or not. Danny's knee is most likely going to prevent him from maximizing his contract, so odds are you will be able to sign him for less than similar talents sign for.

We will get something by not trading him, cap space to sign someone. Trading a player just because you can't afford him next season is a terrible strategy, it doesn't really get you much usually. Granger isn't going to bring back young cheap talent with potential. All you are going to get is overpayed back-ups who make it impossible to re-sign Lance, and decrease your odds of winning a championship.
I think we already know the contract situation. what are you willing to pay a player that is coming off of an injury. I put the line at 6M. if granger plays at 80%+ he will command more. if he plays less than 80% do we pay him 6M? I guess if passivity in place of proactivity works for the best GMs albeit.

Don't get me wrong, I want Granger on this team. I see the value, we got a chance at a ring. I believe we can win a ring in a variety a ways and this is a business. Consider the above if your Owner of the Pacers Franchise writing the checks. I think some on here forget this is just as much about \$ as it is wins. If we were the knicks, lakers, Celtics, nets, heat this would be irrelevant.

just forward thinking what Birds options could be. I love our starting 5.

im with ya, don't think trades are easy. but who would of thought we could land JO for Hibbert and 10M exp in Nesto, or DC for Murphy, shed GG for a late 1st and our big plums in for Scola.

all the above is predicated on knowing we cannot afford an 80% Granger and other than lose him for nothing we can exchange it for solid depth off the bench and draft picks. You all cannot tell me losing Granger disrupts anything, he hasn't played in over a year.

I love DG33 as much as any pacer fan but who here would advise the Pacers to pay Granger 6M+ next season. I guess if this is similar to OKC trading away Harden than I am willing to eat crow.

32. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Danny's gone, I have zero doubts. Short of him taking the minimum anyway. Which is probably more likely than him getting one last big deal at this point sadly.

33. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by Anthem
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Just out of curiosity, BnG, what would it take to make you say "I was wrong about Danny?" What would it take for you to consider him "a factor?"
If Granger comes back and averages 14-15ppg and is roughly as effective guarding LeBron as he was in 2012...not as good but say 90% as good...I will admit I misjudged how this would turn out.

My expectation is that he will not make it through 2013 before his knee gives him issues and they shut him down again. But of course he needs to get on the court for that to even happen.

35. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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If Granger comes back and averages 14-15ppg and is roughly as effective guarding LeBron as he was in 2012...not as good but say 90% as good...I will admit I misjudged how this would turn out.
Great. I'll file that away.

Just to be clear, though, 14-15ppg would make him the team's #2 scorer. Lance is averaging 14ppg, West and Hill are both under 12. That's not because they're not a threat, it's because the team is operating as a unit. I don't care about Danny's ppg nearly as much as his FG%.

37. ## Re: Granger To Resume Practice

Originally Posted by Anthem
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Great. I'll file that away.
I truly hope you can bump this thread and he exceeds my expectations. We are all Pacer fans. We just have different views on how this will turn out.

Some of you might remember Jim Jackson out of Ohio State. He had jumper's knee as well at just about the same age. He did stay in the league for another 5 years.