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Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

  1. #1626
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Why do you guys even argue with ignorance? This poster obviously has an agenda, so all reason and factual data goes out the window when discussing this.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Dude, look at this thread. YOU are the one who was talking about Paul George being in a slump. Not "people." YOU.


    Don't complain about people bringing up PG's slump when you're the only one bringing it up.
    I said in the game threads people say he goes on shooting slumps too often not this particular thread.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I hope Danny starts playing better and I think he will. But he's getting minutes not because he's playing better than OJ would play, but because the Pacers expect him to eventually play better...or maybe much, much better than OJ.

    If you compare Orlando Johnson's stats last year when he got some time on the court as a rookie (per 36 minute stats over 51 games) to Granger's per 36 minute stats this year, if anything OJ is doing better. OJ is beating him in FG%, 3P%, Rebounds and assists. Granger is beating him with FT% and has a slight edge on points per attempt of 2.91 to 2.8.

    As for Granger's defense, I think I've read people talking positive about it this year. I'm not seeing that. Instead, he remains a step slow. Perhaps that gets better too. I think we all want him back to where he was or a lot better. But let's not lie about where he is right now. He's playing exactly like a backup...right there with Orlando Johnson in effectiveness.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    I said in the game threads people say he goes on shooting slumps too often not this particular thread.
    So, you're upset that people say in the game thread what you say in this thread?

    Hang on, I'll be right back. I need to update my ignore list.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Did V possess Magic P?

    Someone get me some holy water!
    Last edited by Sandman21; 01-29-2014 at 09:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    2013-2014
    The Lost Season

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    My point bringing that stat up was to show that while some people have recently been clamoring for other players to play over Granger, the reality is this team is better with Granger on the court than those other three players.

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  14. #1633
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    My point bringing that stat up was to show that while some people have recently been clamoring for other players to play over Granger, the reality is this team is better with Granger on the court than those other three players.
    I agree the Pacers should definitely be playing Granger, but not for the same reason. I think he needs minutes to get through the mental blocks and get in better rhythm.

    So, I would say it's about a wash with him playing right now compared to OJ. IOW, we are not winning more games (yet) because Danny Granger is playing. I hope he becomes a factor soon. In fact, it better be within the next month or I'm going to question if it happens this year. We need him playing better for the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    So, you're upset that people say in the game thread what you say in this thread?
    My problem is everyone has a built-in excuse except PG and Lance.

    Any one who was frustrated with Hibbert missing bunnies last year was told to stop complaining because of what he bring defensively.

    Same with Hill, he has a bad game we're told that without his defense at the point guard position that would make us a noticeable worse defense.

    Danny is allowed to take off the first four months of the season without much gripe. West has a bad game you're told he's the heart and soul of the team be quiet.

    Ian can't play post defense without fouling the offensive player and even he has defenders.

    The big money guys have excuse after excuse but Lance who is making about a million better not have a bad game. PG's big contract doesn't kick in until next year unless I am mistaken and he is held to a higher standard than Granger in his prime. He's one of the best two way players but gets called a lazy diva if he has a bad game and no one sticks up for him not even myself. No one says yeah he had a bad game but he got this many assist or he shut down his man or without his defense we would be a worst team.

    PG brings way more to this team besides scoring, he's 8th in steals and rebounds well for his position. I think it's clear Vogels tells PG to ball watch and help protect the paint, from time to time he allows back door cuts no one says things like, "that will happen when you have so many responsibilities on defense." Meanwhile Hill cannot keep any one in front of him we're told the defense is designed to allow penetration. See how one guys has an excuse for "poor play" but the other doesn't?

    I'm most likely going to get another infraction for this post but the bias is clear I'm not making this stuff up someone prove me wrong.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I hope Danny starts playing better and I think he will. But he's getting minutes not because he's playing better than OJ would play, but because the Pacers expect him to eventually play better...or maybe much, much better than OJ.
    How could you NOT think that Danny is playing better than what OJ was earlier this season? Even with Danny's shot being off, he's been far more effective both offensively and defensively.

    If you compare Orlando Johnson's stats last year when he got some time on the court as a rookie (per 36 minute stats over 51 games) to Granger's per 36 minute stats this year, if anything OJ is doing better. OJ is beating him in FG%, 3P%, Rebounds and assists. Granger is beating him with FT% and has a slight edge on points per attempt of 2.91 to 2.8.
    Few things here. 1. Why are we comparing OJ's stats from LAST year to Danny this year? Is it because Orlando played so poorly this year? Also, OJ played a lot of his minutes last year during mop up duty within blowouts, and was essentially in and out of the rotation last year. OJ didn't shoot particularly well, and lacks the versatility to guard anything but shooting guards whereas we've seen Danny guarding 2's, 3's and 4's this year...which brings me to..

    As for Granger's defense, I think I've read people talking positive about it this year. I'm not seeing that. Instead, he remains a step slow. Perhaps that gets better too. I think we all want him back to where he was or a lot better. But let's not lie about where he is right now. He's playing exactly like a backup...right there with Orlando Johnson in effectiveness.
    Ask Blake Griffin and Nick Young how well Danny has played defensively this year. Danny never has and never will be the quickest defender, but he has bodied up on defense well this year, and has done a pretty good job--while also getting his fair share of deflections, and weakside blocks. There's more than one way to defend.

    I actually agree with you in that he's played like a backup wing. But to say his effectiveness is the same as Orlando Johnson who completely played his way out of the rotation the last two years is completely false, and not even close.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Lol I'm still trying to figure out who criticizes Paul or Lance? Hill and Granger are tied for receiving the most flack form posters, with Ian being a distant 3rd.

    At the end of the day, we are all going to complain about something these guys do--it's just the nature of a discussion board. But to say that Lance and Paul are criticized more than George Hill or Danny Granger is preposterous.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    My problem is everyone has a built-in excuse except PG and Lance.

    Any one who was frustrated with Hibbert missing bunnies last year was told to stop complaining because of what he bring defensively.

    Same with Hill, he has a bad game we're told that without his defense at the point guard position that would make us a noticeable worse defense.

    Danny is allowed to take off the first four months of the season without much gripe. West has a bad game you're told he's the heart and soul of the team be quiet.

    Ian can't play post defense without fouling the offensive player and even he has defenders.
    I am simply highlighting this part of the post.....but I'm not sure how to respond other than with

    I didnt know that there were people complaining about Granger not returning anytime sooner. Maybe it is due to poor wording on your part…..but you make it seem like Granger wasn't off due to legitimate injury/conditioning concerns but that he decided to take some extended vacation. We all wished that he could return sooner...but didn't think that he could return for any other reason than a legit injury / conditioning concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    The big money guys have excuse after excuse but Lance who is making about a million better not have a bad game. PG's big contract doesn't kick in until next year unless I am mistaken and he is held to a higher standard than Granger in his prime. He's one of the best two way players but gets called a lazy diva if he has a bad game and no one sticks up for him not even myself. No one says yeah he had a bad game but he got this many assist or he shut down his man or without his defense we would be a worst team.

    PG brings way more to this team besides scoring, he's 8th in steals and rebounds well for his position. I think it's clear Vogels tells PG to ball watch and help protect the paint, from time to time he allows back door cuts no one says things like, "that will happen when you have so many responsibilities on defense." Meanwhile Hill cannot keep any one in front of him we're told the defense is designed to allow penetration. See how one guys has an excuse for "poor play" but the other doesn't?

    I'm most likely going to get another infraction for this post but the bias is clear I'm not making this stuff up someone prove me wrong.
    So....we are allowed to complain about PG24 and Lance only after they get paid......until then......we shouldn't be complaining about either of them...cuz they are still on their rookie contract and therefore does not deserve the scrutiny?

    PG24 is the face of the franchise and has been since Granger went down ( at least IMHO ). Yes, he should be held to the same level of Granger-level scrutiny when Granger was in his prime ( unfortunately, a VERY LONG time ago ) and considered the Face of the Franchise. I could care less that PG24 is on his rookie contract.....PG24 is the face of the Franchise and deserves to be held up to the light of praise and/or critical glare of criticism. Same IMHO goes to Lance.

    PG24 does deserve some criticism for his poor shooting in yesterday's game.....but that doesn't mean that we don't recognize that he contributes on the other end of the court ( as you illustrated in your above post ). Against a clearly less talented team like the Lakers...we can glide by even if PG24 like garbage....but if he shot like this against a more elite Team....I would want him to "create more for others and shoot less" then just have him shoot himself out of the funk. We can't afford for PG24 to shoot like garbage against the Elite Teams cuz we can't cover up mistakes like that in games that are as talented as the Pacers are.

    ALL Players....regardless of role deserve criticism but only if it is actually warranted.....the question is whether the criticism is deserved ( cuz he wasn't hitting the side of a barn for a single game ) or not ( simply cuz the Poster is biased and doesn't hold anyone outside of PG24 and Lance in high regard ).
    Last edited by CableKC; 01-30-2014 at 02:10 AM.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    My problem is everyone has a built-in excuse except PG and Lance.

    Any one who was frustrated with Hibbert missing bunnies last year was told to stop complaining because of what he bring defensively.

    Same with Hill, he has a bad game we're told that without his defense at the point guard position that would make us a noticeable worse defense.

    Danny is allowed to take off the first four months of the season without much gripe. West has a bad game you're told he's the heart and soul of the team be quiet.

    Ian can't play post defense without fouling the offensive player and even he has defenders.

    The big money guys have excuse after excuse but Lance who is making about a million better not have a bad game. PG's big contract doesn't kick in until next year unless I am mistaken and he is held to a higher standard than Granger in his prime. He's one of the best two way players but gets called a lazy diva if he has a bad game and no one sticks up for him not even myself. No one says yeah he had a bad game but he got this many assist or he shut down his man or without his defense we would be a worst team.

    PG brings way more to this team besides scoring, he's 8th in steals and rebounds well for his position. I think it's clear Vogels tells PG to ball watch and help protect the paint, from time to time he allows back door cuts no one says things like, "that will happen when you have so many responsibilities on defense." Meanwhile Hill cannot keep any one in front of him we're told the defense is designed to allow penetration. See how one guys has an excuse for "poor play" but the other doesn't?

    I'm most likely going to get another infraction for this post but the bias is clear I'm not making this stuff up someone prove me wrong.
    Yeah, you're making stuff up.

    I have personally defended PG and Lance numerous times. In fact, I have defended every single player in this team and the same goes for those two who happen to be 2 of our 3 most important players (Roy is the other one).

    I'm sorry, mate, but you're hunting ghosts. You're imagining that people "hate" on Lance or PG. Yes, some people are not big fans of their celebrations and some others thing that we shouldn't give $14M per year to Lance but no one has anything against them. If anything they're the most loved players in this forum.

    Do you know which players have real haters?

    Danny Granger has haters. Numerous people in this forum seem to hold a grudge against Granger one way or another. They go so far as to completely disown statistics if they happen to say something good about Granger.

    George Hill has haters. They are very vocal in game threads. Several people fail to realize that about 90% of the PGs that are playing against us are having horrible shooting nights against Hill and instead blame him for funneling guards to Hibbert and forcing a miss.

    Roy Hibbert had haters. A lot of people were torching him last year when he was struggling with his wrist injury. Thankfully, most of it has stopped after his playoff performance but some people still nag about his offense from time to time.

    Darren Collison had haters. Practically, the whole forum except 5-10 posters had turned against DC following the words of a certain someone.

    Miles Plumlee had haters. Tons of them. Most of the forum was killing Miles on a consistent basis and only a few of them were willing to take a wait and see approach.

    Paul George and Lance Stephenson are mostly loved in this forum. I don't think that there is anyone who actually hates them like they did with the 5 players that I mentioned above.

    I mean, just look at the avatars of the rest of the forum. PG and Lance are the ones that occupy most avatars.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I love em both, but Hill's been better than West this year. As he should be, age and all. But it's all DUMP HILL HE CAN'T DENY PENETRATION TO THE BEST CROP OF POINTS THE NBA HAS EVER SEEN AND HE CAN'T HAND CHECK AND HE DUCKS UNDER SCREENS BECAUSE OUR ENTIRE CONCEPT IS TO FUNNEL TO THE PAINT.

    Whatever, you know what I'm saying. Hill at 3/24 or West at 3/36? Get serious and stop playing favorites. If you want to ***** about contracts West's is the one that's going to hurt. Hill's here, Lance is hopefully/probably gonna be here, I have no doubt Roy will never wear another jersey and get 55 hung in the rafters. Scola's not getting younger, we need to start looking for a 4 replacement now because we're not just going to be able to buy one. We'll have Lance/PG/Roy forever basically, but there's no 4 in the pipeline to groom, we gotta get that. If we're not gonna spend the tax we've got to be 2+ years worth of forward thinking now.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I'm sure this has been posted already somewhere in these sixty pages, but just in case it hasn't, Sam Amico wrote this:

    Pacers forward Danny Granger, another impending free agent, is drawing lots of interest as the trade deadline approaches, league sources said. The same goes for Cavaliers guard C.J. Miles, although to a significantly lesser extent.
    Say the Pacers did decide to trade Granger, what position would they try to trade for? Backup center?

  27. #1641
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    The problem continues to be that there's no financial sense behind trading Danny unless you expect what you get back to replace Lance Stephenson because you've decided not to pay for him.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    The problem continues to be that there's no financial sense behind trading Danny unless you expect what you get back to replace Lance Stephenson because you've decided not to pay for him.
    Not exactly.

    Another reason to trade Granger would be to somehow package Copeland out for a huge ( but likely useless ) Expiring Contract to shave off 2014-2015 capspace.

    To me....the only reason to trade Granger is if you can include Copeland in any such trade WHILE getting back a HUGE expiring Contract and nothing back. As to who we get back...it would be nice if it's a helpful Player....but it could be the Team Mascot for all I care. It would affect our bench depth for this season....but it would go a long way to giving the Pacers some breathing room to re-sign Lance without having to let Scola go or trade GH.

    Now, I am sure that many here would just say....just trade Copeland for an expiring contract in the next 3 weeks. Sure, it can be that simple....but IMHO...I don't think that it is. I'd hope that some combination of OJ+2nd round picks along with Copeland would do it...but I'm not holding my breath here.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  31. #1643
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Not exactly.

    Another reason to trade Granger would be to somehow package Copeland out for a huge ( but likely useless ) Expiring Contract to shave off 2014-2015 capspace.

    To me....the only reason to trade Granger is if you can include Copeland in any such trade WHILE getting back a HUGE expiring Contract and nothing back. As to who we get back...it would be nice if it's a helpful Player....but it could be the Team Mascot for all I care. It would affect our bench depth for this season....but it would go a long way to giving the Pacers some breathing room to re-sign Lance without having to let Scola go or trade GH.

    Now, I am sure that many here would just say....just trade Copeland for an expiring contract in the next 3 weeks. Sure, it can be that simple....but IMHO...I don't think that it is. I'd hope that some combination of OJ+2nd round picks along with Copeland would do it...but I'm not holding my breath here.
    I suppose so. Not sure it's realistic, but possible.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I suppose so. Not sure it's realistic, but possible.
    I agree.....I can only see that scenario working with some Team like the Suns or Bobcats that may want to upgrade their roster at the cost of taking on Copeland for a strong Playoff push. Both of these Teams have huge Expiring contracts that they can use to add more quality depth to their roster.

    But as you said.....more than likely...it's not realistic that this happens. Most Teams looking for a HUGE expiring is looking to shed long-term salary ( what we don't want ) ...not look for ugrades to their roster while sending back nothing but Expiring Contracts.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    I'm sure this has been posted already somewhere in these sixty pages, but just in case it hasn't, Sam Amico wrote this:
    If it's by Sam Amico, stop reading whatever it is.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    If it's by Sam Amico, stop reading whatever it is.
    To be fair....the way that I read it is that Granger ( like any other Big Expiring Contract ) is drawing interest from other Teams....just like the way that ( I assume ) other Big Expiring Contracts ( like Okafor or Ben Gordon ) is drawing interest specifically for Teams that are looking to shed long-term salary.

    I do not doubt that Bird would have a price tag for another team to get Granger ( my guess is that price being one where the Pacers get back a useful Wing Player that is on a huge Expiring contract while sending out Copeland )....but it doesn't necessarily mean that Bird is calling up every GM asking if they are interested...I suspect that it's the other way around..

    I just doubt that other Teams are willing to pay the price that he's asking for.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    CableKC, that's exactly why you shouldn't read Amico. He very rarely (if ever) has any substance to his reporting. It's either "water is wet" news like this or passing on some bullcrap he heard as fact...

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    The problem continues to be that there's no financial sense behind trading Danny unless you expect what you get back to replace Lance Stephenson because you've decided not to pay for him.
    Exactly...so unless Orlando is ready to trade Afflalo and one of Harrington/Davis/Nelson for Granger then it aint happening...

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Am I the only one that thinks he barely looks like he belongs on an NBA roster anymore. He can do one thing now, stand at the three point line and shoot spot up threes, and he can't do that well. If it's true that teams are interested in him (and I highly doubt it is), the Pacers would be crazy not to move him. If we could get any sort of competent wing scorer off the bench in exchange for him, it would be a huge upgrade.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimePacerFan View Post
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    Am I the only one that thinks he barely looks like he belongs on an NBA roster anymore. He can do one thing now, stand at the three point line and shoot spot up threes, and he can't do that well. If it's true that teams are interested in him (and I highly doubt it is), the Pacers would be crazy not to move him. If we could get any sort of competent wing scorer off the bench in exchange for him, it would be a huge upgrade.
    He has looked pretty bad lately. Reggie at 39 looked more spry than DG does at 30. He has been a solid passer and has come up with some crafty defensive plays, but he's just not giving us productive offense. He can't create a shot, he can't successfully take it to the rack, and he can't get open without the ball like he used to. His offensive skills are just a shell of what they used to be.

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