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Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    But we need low post defense against periemeter players besides George. Lance is good, but even Joe Johnson destroyed him on the block.
    To be fair, Joe Johnson is an excellent post player. I don't like his overall game a lot but his post game is amazing and a joy to watch. He destroyed both Lance and PG in that game. The guy is big, strong and good in that aspect of the game. He isn't easy to handle down there.

    Lance has done a nice job as a post defender this season. I'm happy that he is improving in that aspect. He is a strong player and he doesn't allow others to push him around. But getting a 3rd post defender is always nice.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    I've never seen people so determined to undermine a players numbers when said player plays for their favorite team.
    Exactly...I mean I get why the Miami Heat are praying Danny cant stay healthy...cause they know...If he stays relatively healthy then no matter how good he is post-injury....60%....75%...90%....they have no chance...They are shivering in their boots at having to face a lineup of Hibbert, West, Granger, Paul, and Lance...

    But how our own fans are basically indirectly hoping Danny fails in his comeback attempt is just mind-boggling when you consider the impact he has on the team and the teams success if he is able to come back relatively well....and make no mistake, regardless of what some of you say...that is exactly the end result of all the bs your spewing...

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Exactly...I mean I get why the Miami Heat are praying Danny cant stay healthy...cause they know...If he stays relatively healthy then no matter how good he is post-injury....60%....75%...90%....they have no chance...They are shivering in their boots at having to face a lineup of Hibbert, West, Granger, Paul, and Lance...

    But how our own fans are basically indirectly hoping Danny fails in his comeback attempt is just mind-boggling when you consider the impact he has on the team and the teams success if he is able to come back relatively well....and make no mistake, regardless of what some of you say...that is exactly the end result of all the bs your spewing...
    This is entirely false. I hope Granger comes out playing like Michael Jordan. Seriously. The difference between some of us is what we believe is going to happen. I am not hopeful and I suppose that's something I should just keep to myself on this board.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Good numbers on bad team - THIS IS THE DUMBEST MYTH, THE MOST CONTRADICTED MYTH, IN ALL OF SPORTS

    How does Iverson get credit for "carry a team on his own" but Granger get bashed for putting up more efficient scoring numbers on a team that did NOT feature a DPOY at center (Mutumbo).


    How is it that Shaq helped make his shooters look better cause he got them open looks, but Granger hit all his threes because he DIDN'T HAVE SHAQ? When you make the statement that guys put up good per minute/per FGA numbers on bad teams specifically because their teammates are so bad it just sounds dumb and instantly contradicts the idea that a guy can't be blamed cause his teammates are so bad.

    Having better teammates must make your numbers look better...unless you are someone that only looks at pure volume (ie PPG or maybe RPG). You need guys to make shots to get assists, you need guys to help get open looks to carry a good FG%.


    Or would someone like to make the case that if ANY PLAYER went 1 on 5, literally being the only player on the court for his team, that he'd get better numbers? Somehow being the only guy out there would means your FG% would go up and you'd be getting all the rebounds by outplaying all 5 opponents at once?

    THINK ABOUT THE LOGIC OF BEING "HELPED" BY HAVING BAD TEAMMATES! Then put that BS statement 6 feet under forever.....this message brought to you by Gerald Green on the WINNING Phoenix Suns.

    DJ Augustin ,Gerald Green, Copeland, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, hell even Melo is getting great numbers on a crappy team, yeah is not a myth.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would also like somebody to explain to me how they are planning in replacing PG with DG when PG has Lebron on the post? teletransportation? because I can see Lebron salivating as soon as he gets the ball and has DG guarding him, he won't need to go to the post if he can take the guy off the dribble at will.


    The idea of having DG to defend Lebron/Melo in the post is nice and all but is not feasible or realistic because Lebron and Melo know they can just take it to him without even having to post him up.
    You really really dont watch the games do you????? Lebron doesnt try to drive towards the basket or anywhere near it when Hibbert is down there...

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Is Granger playing tonight or is that knee swelling up already?
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    This is entirely false. I hope Granger comes out playing like Michael Jordan. Seriously. The difference between some of us is what we believe is going to happen. I am not hopeful and I suppose that's something I should just keep to myself on this board.
    ummm....hello....

    noone can read 99% of your posts and come up with the the fact u hope Granger comes out playing like Michael Jordan...only the exact opposite...and you would do well to do some serious reflecting if you believe otherwise

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    If that is true when PG has a bad game you'd think he was the sole reason we lost. With this team being so deep you'd think PG wouldn't get criticized after every bad game. Danny who was relied on for offense still got off to bad starts, why? Birds comments the other day tells us why. So Danny brought no defense and got off to bad starts offensively but the new kid in town (PG) gets crucified on a deep team if he has a bad game. This is why there is a Danny vs PG dynamic on this board, Danny gets excuses for poor play but PG doesn't.
    You are simply wrong. PG doesn't get criticized after every bad game and he has never been crucified this season. The only people who complain at times are the ones that complain every time that we lose and they complain because that's a happy of theirs. Those people do to PG the same thing that you do to George Hill in every single game. They just say **** with little substance.

    Personally, I have been pegged as a "Danny apologist" by some but I use the exact same arguments for both PG and Danny (and Hill and Roy and West and Lance etc).
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    How good of a defender a person is perceived to be typically has a lot to do with how good of defenders he plays with. It is much easier to be a good defender when you are playing with other good defenders. Roy single handily makes every player on this team seem like a better defender than they are, the same can be said for Paul. With the Hornets West's defensive rating was routinely over 105. He comes to the Pacers and it suddenly dives down to 102, 99, and 95. George Hill's defensive rating also improved greatly once he arrived with the Pacers. It should also be no surprise that Danny's best defensive rating years are the years where he played with good defenders.

    Playing with the defenders and system that Danny had been prior to Vogel would have made Paul look average. Roy Hibbert's defense improved greatly once he who shall not be named was fired. During those dark years Granger was usually one of the better defenders on the team. Other than Daniels and Rush I can't think of any other player who was a better defender off the top of my head on those teams.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    ummm....hello....

    noone can read 99% of your posts and come up with the the fact u hope Granger comes out playing like Michael Jordan...only the exact opposite...and you would do well to do some serious reflecting if you believe otherwise
    Someone reading and understanding my posts should come to the conclusion I'm pessimistic...maybe overly pessimistic, but not anti-Granger. I want the best for him and I hope he can help us.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Someone reading and understanding my posts should come to the conclusion I'm pessimistic...maybe overly pessimistic, but not anti-Granger. I want the best for him and I hope he can help us.
    And how many people have to tell you otherwise before you get it???? You even seem to relish in the fact that youre perceived as a hater....the two just dont go together...at all....

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    You are simply wrong. PG doesn't get criticized after every bad game and he has never been crucified this season. The only people who complain at times are the ones that complain every time that we lose and they complain because that's a happy of theirs. Those people do to PG the same thing that you do to George Hill in every single game. They just say **** with little substance.

    Personally, I have been pegged as a "Danny apologist" by some but I use the exact same arguments for both PG and Danny (and Hill and Roy and West and Lance etc).
    Well, I criticize Paul a lot (at least I think I do), but it is only cause I have high expectations. What I don't do is make it into a bigger deal than it is.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Nobody is hoping Granger is anything but fantastic.

    Yes, there are people who are doubtful of it based on one thing or another but that doesn't mean they don't hope he's absolutely fantastic and the missing piece to put the team over the top for a championship.

    Either way, we're on step closer to seeing how it plays out.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    He wasn't the 1st option, though.
    He is now and still plays all out on defense.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    DJ Augustin ,Gerald Green, Copeland, Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, hell even Melo is getting great numbers on a crappy team, yeah is not a myth.
    Copeland does not belong on that list.

    1) He wasn't playing on a crappy team. The Knicks were a very good team last season that won 54 games and went deep in the playoffs. In fact, I remember that you liked them a lot and you considered them better than us at the beginning of the season.

    2) He didn't get great numbers since he didn't get heavy minutes. He just proved that he is a very capable 3 point shooter (shooting 42.1% from 3 in the RS and 47.8% from 3 in the playoffs). He is doing a similar thing for us as well. He is shooting 40% from 3 so far so he is proving that his shooting was not an one-year wonder like you claimed. He just doesn't play a lot of minutes because Scola is a better player than him.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    He is now and still plays all out on defense.
    Is he coached by JOB now, though? He isn't. He is coached by Vogel and Danny played D under Vogel as well.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Nobody is hoping Granger is anything but fantastic.
    Allow me to believe that certain people hope that he gets re-injured right away simply because they will able to say "I told you so".
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Nobody is hoping Granger is anything but fantastic.

    Yes, there are people who are doubtful of it based on one thing or another but that doesn't mean they don't hope he's absolutely fantastic and the missing piece to put the team over the top for a championship.

    Either way, we're on step closer to seeing how it plays out.
    Ok, then why do they have to put him down and act like he wasn't a good player? Why act like all he did was shoot the 3 very well, but was otherwise not good at anything else? It is one thing to keep your hope in check, but that isn't what some of these posters are doing. Instead they are trying to say that Danny was never a good player to begin with. They aren't saying be cautious with your optimism, they are saying Granger wasn't a good player.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Lol....Crucified? Really? Really???? George Hill certainly has been drawing quite a bit of criticism lately and seems to be the new whipping boy. About the only criticism Paul George receives is with his constant complaining to the refs and diva-like actions at times-and justifiably so...other than that, he receives little to no criticism even though hes the new face of the franchise with a max contract and as such its natural to expect a fair amount of criticism when he doesnt play well.

    Now what all that has to do with Danny is beyond me...Its like some of you dont understand that probably the biggest key to winning a championship is having them both performing at a high level and having the two of them healthy along with the other top 9 players.

    You do realize they play for the same team, correct?? You know, YOURS and OUR Indiana Pacers????? Some of you talk about Danny as if he played for the Heat or something.....crazy nonsense.
    Check the Pistons post game thread and tell me PG doesn't get crucified after a so called bad game. A few years ago when Ronnie Brewer dropped about 30 on Danny no one was allowed to criticize his defensive efforts in the post game thread.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Is he coached by JOB now, though? He isn't. He is coached by Vogel and Danny played D under Vogel as well.
    A few years ago we had a back to back series with New York, Danny said something disrespectful about how the two games should be easy Melo proceeded to eat Danny alive and we lost both games badly I believe. Danny cannot guard elite talent plain and simple, PG can though.

    Also it doesn't matter who the coach is, PG played D at Fresno State. Danny as a leader should've played hard at both ends.
    Last edited by Magic P; 12-22-2013 at 06:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Check the Pistons post game thread and tell me PG doesn't get crucified after a so called bad game.
    1) One of the main reasons that some people criticized him in that game was because his defense was poor.

    2) Personally, the only thing that I said about PG in that game was that he didn't look healthy. I still believe that his finger is injured and thus I'm not going to blame him for anything. And according to several posters I am a "Danny apologist".
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    By the way, I just wanted to point out, Danny wasn't selected to the All-Star game by the fans or by journalists, but by the coaches.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    1) One of the main reasons that some people criticized him in that game was because his defense was poor.

    2) Personally, the only thing that I said about PG in that game was that he didn't look healthy. I still believe that his finger is injured and thus I'm not going to blame him for anything. And according to several posters I am a "Danny apologist".
    Your first point begs the question to why no one could criticize Danny during his healthy years on his defensive efforts and y'all act like PG's man went for 30 in the Pistons game like Ronnie Brewer did to Danny two years ago. Y'all want PG to drop 30 points and lock his man down every game but Danny had no such standard among fans. The fact Danny apologist has this high standard for PG is that he is the superior player.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    A few years ago we had a back to back series with New York, Danny said something disrespectful about how the two games should be easy Melo proceeded to eat Danny alive and we lost both games badly I believe. Danny cannot guard elite talent plain and simple, PG can though.
    Your memory doesn't serve you right. It's true that we lost badly (by 15 in New York and 14 in Indiana) but Carmel didn't eat Danny alive. Carmelo scored 12 points on 4/12 shooting in the NY game and and 16 points in 6/13 shooting in the Indiana game. I will give you that Melo played better than Danny in those two games, though.

    Also, I never disputed Paul's defense. He is obviously a much better defender than Danny. PG is an elite defender. Danny was a good defender but he wasn't near Paul's level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Also it doesn't matter who the coach is, PG played D at Fresno State. Danny as a leader should've played hard at both ends.
    Here is Thunderbird's analysis on Paul George's play in Fresno State:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...of-Paul-George

    I'll quote the part about defense:

    I really like Paul George’s potential as a strong defender at this level. He will have a distinct size and length advantage over most “3′s” in the league, and he shows good potential in being able to use that to really influence an opponents jump shots, forcing them to change their shot to get the ball over his outstretched hands.
    I do have to use the word “potential” in that last paragraph, because on tape George only contests shots as well as he should about 1/2 of the time. When he did it, he was a force defensively, but sometimes he played somewhat conservatively and allowed people to shoot without getting his arms up. He needs more concentration and focus, and he needs a staff that will demand that of him. He clearly has the natural gifts to be a strong defender at the NBA level, but he has to apply those gifts to his play consistently.


    On the ball, George is usually in the right place, trying to do the right thing. He plays too upright in his slide, which gets him off balance against really quick drivers. His legs get stiff and he gets up out of his stance, which is another reason why sometimes guys who are smaller can still shoot over him, as he doesn’t slide balanced enough to lift his hands quickly. Like I mentioned in the first part of this piece, gaining flexibility in his legs will greatly help him become a high level defender, because the raw material is there to work with no question.
    In spurts on tape, you see him really turn it on defensively. When focused on that aspect of his game, he can really anticipate things well, has really quick hands in getting deflections, can block shots when balanced, and has good instincts. When he does that, he looks like a potential defensive stopper, but you didn’t see it all the time on film. I think a large part of this inconsistency was lack of concentration (typical 19 year old stuff) and lack of elite conditioning. At the NBA level, he will both play less minutes and have less responsibility early in his career, so pacing himself shouldn’t be a long term issue. It will be his own responsibility, and that of his head coach and training staff, to make sure he gets in elite condition to play. If he does that, I see no reason why Paul George can’t be a very very good NBA defensive player, capable of guarding a variety of different types.
    He won’t be great at defending guys who run through a million screens, but he will be a potential stopper of guys who just try and go off the dribble. He will be able to influence their shots from the perimeter due to his length, and that length will allow him to play a step further off than most people can, keeping drivers in front of him. He will also be a terrific defender in screen/roll situations, both against the dribbler and the screener.


    I think if Paul George can learn to play lower to the ground with more flexibility, he can be one of the top wing defenders in the league. He won’t be that right away, but by age 22 or 23 he will be, in my judgment.
    T-Bird nailed this analysis. He said that George has the potential to become a top wing defender but he also said that he didn't do it all the time in college. His concentration wasn't there all the time. And that's absolutely natural. No 19 year old is going to be concentrated 100% of the time. He needed a coaching staff to reach this level defensively and Vogel's staff is absolutely awesome for both him and the rest of our players.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic P View Post
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    Your first point begs the question to why no one could criticize Danny during his healthy years on his defensive efforts and y'all act like PG's man went for 30 in the Pistons game like Ronnie Brewer did to Danny two years ago. Y'all want PG to drop 30 points and lock his man down every game but Danny had no such standard among fans. The fact Danny apologist has this high standard for PG is that he is the superior player.
    As I said already, I didn't criticize PG. I know better than to bash our players for one performance.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    No one criticized Danny for his defend under JOB? What are you talking about? Even Peck complained about Danny's defense under JOB. Also you weren't even on the board for the vast majority of the time JOB coached.

    No one here expects PG to do that either. Do we expect more out of PG than Danny? Absolutely. Why? Cause he is capable of more.

    The most complaining I see about PG on any level of a consistent basis is about PG whining to the refs.

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