Page 10 of 68 FirstFirst ... 678910111213142060 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 250 of 1696

Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

  1. #226
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    7,755

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Nuntius, Danny Granger didn't change his game much at all in Vogel's first full year. I have to disagree with you there. I didn't see much of the preseason so I can't personally verify Anthem's post that said Danny seemed more willing to give the ball up in preseason. If so, that's a great sign.

    My links weren't really meant to prove Danny's a black hole, that's my opinion, I only put them there to show you that I'm not alone in thinking that. It's not some crazy idea. Certainly not crazy enough to deserve the **** I got in this thread for saying it.
    No, it is a pretty crazy idea. There are people out there who think he is a chucker because of his shooting percentage, but you are the first person I have ever seen call him a blackhole. Calling him such suggests that once he gets the ball a shot is going up or there is going to be a turnover, which just has never been the case with Danny.

  2. #227
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,331

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not assisting and dribbling with his head down straight to the basket. There's really no comparison between the two when it comes to playmaking.
    I'm not saying that Danny is a playmaker, but the things we're talking about are based on what he does when he's done with the ball. He either shoots, turns the ball over, or passes. How long it takes him to do any of those three doesn't matter. How good he is at facilitating another player doesn't matter. If he isn't shooting too much and he isn't turning the ball over too much, he must be passing it. Is he passing it to a player in scoring position? Obviously not, based on the assist numbers, but he's passing the ball as part of the middle of an offensive play or getting it back to the backcourt facilitator (usually the point guard) or in to the center (when playing an in-and-out game). If he holds the ball and does nothing with it, that would end up a turnover. If he just heaves up shots that would add to his shots taken.

    Your later reference article http://basketball-statistics.com/who...einthenba.html gives me fits. Let me grab some bits:

    I’d say that a “black hole” is a player who shoots the ball almost every time he touches it. He rarely passes the ball to an open teammate, and shoots a low percentage to boot.
    100 * (1 – (AvgUsg% / Usg%) + (1 – (TS% / AvgTS%) + (1 – (Ast% / AvgAst))
    First, he is clearly not using "pass" but using "pass to a man who is not only in scoring position but scores". I already have a problem because it only counts guys who pass to someone who scores. If you don't have other scorers on the team, that's problematic, so it is skewed against the top scorer with average teammates.

    Ast% TS% Usg%
    Big 8.05 0.553 20.0
    Wing 13.01 0.541 20.0
    PG 23.89 0.533 20.0
    Next, he "calculates" the average utilization as 20% with the logic that you split up your shots between all 5 positions equally. WTF? If my top scorer is taking the same number of shots as my worst scorer I want someone taken out.

    Rk Player Pos USG% TS% AST% BHI
    1 Rashad McCants Wing 25.94 0.474 8.31 71.41
    43 Ronald Murray Wing 23.52 0.548 12.94 14.27
    47 Danny Granger Wing 29.10 0.580 15.55 4.53
    And, finally, Danny is on this list even though his TS% and assists are HIGHER than the averages for his position - with a supposed "black hole index" that is 6% of the number for the biggest black hole, and 32% of the number for the "well known" guy 4 positions above him.

    I'm crying - this is just punishing a guy with a high utilization.

    ETA: a wing with a utilization of 21%, assists of 13%, and TS% of 54% - in other words, only barely off the averages he set - ends up with a BHI of 5.1. So Danny is LESS of a "black hole" than a wing as close to the average as you could possibly get..
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BillS For This Useful Post:


  4. #228
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    11,916

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice




    Sigh.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Heisenberg For This Useful Post:


  6. #229
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,008
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    No use talking about how he will help the team to death when he can't even practice.

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Major Cold For This Useful Post:


  8. #230
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583
    Mood

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote



    Sigh.
    I don't think that's bad. Next week is 2 days away, and we play tonight, so I doubt we're practicing tomorrow.

  9. #231
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I didn't see much of the preseason so I can't personally verify Anthem's post that said Danny seemed more willing to give the ball up in preseason.
    I can bump some game threads if you want. It was pretty well noted, not just by me.

    Danny's always done what his coach told him to do. This year's team has a focus on sharing the basketball. Danny will do what the team needs.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Anthem For This Useful Post:


  11. #232
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    18,776

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Nuntius, Danny Granger didn't change his game much at all in Vogel's first full year. I have to disagree with you there. I didn't see much of the preseason so I can't personally verify Anthem's post that said Danny seemed more willing to give the ball up in preseason. If so, that's a great sign.

    My links weren't really meant to prove Danny's a black hole, that's my opinion, I only put them there to show you that I'm not alone in thinking that. It's not some crazy idea. Certainly not crazy enough to deserve the **** I got in this thread for saying it.
    Before watching the 10-11 season I hadn't watched a game that featured Danny Granger in my life (although I did watch the 2010 FIBA World Championship but I wasn't paying much attention to individual players). I never got the impression that he is an unwilling passer. He always struck me as a willing passer that just lacks passing skills. That's why I have never understood the "black hole" and "chucker" remarks that I have seen posted in this forum. I believe that some people are thinking too much about the JOB era.

    That said, you are absolutely entitled to disagree with me.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  12. #233
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,877

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No, it is a pretty crazy idea. There are people out there who think he is a chucker because of his shooting percentage, but you are the first person I have ever seen call him a blackhole. Calling him such suggests that once he gets the ball a shot is going up or there is going to be a turnover, which just has never been the case with Danny.
    I have to agree with this. Granger, for all his weaknesses, is not a black hole. He is willing to give the ball up and normally doesn't force too many shots. The knock on Danny is that he will take lots of ill advised shots early in the shot clock. Normally these are not good shots but shots he could get anytime well after people are in rebounding position. This is indeed as good as a turnover.

    As for this talk about him passing, all he has ever done is make pedestrian passes that any backup in the league could do. His dribbling skills are at about the same level. These are the prime reasons why some posters here are not impressed. We look at many more factors than his ability to shoot from the perimeter.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  14. #234
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,877

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    "chucker" remarks
    Danny has never been a ball hog. Al Harrington he is not. But Danny has shot many, many times very early in the shot clock when the look wasn't all that good. From what I recall he seemed to miss 75% of those shots...and IMO that's where the "chucker" moniker is coming from.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  16. #235
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,348

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote



    Sigh.

    It's slowly going to become last year all over again.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:


  18. #236
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,877

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's slowly going to become last year all over again.
    I'll try the glass half-full approach with him for once. Are we talking soreness in the calf or knee?

  19. #237
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,348

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'll try the glass half-full approach with him for once. Are we talking soreness in the calf or knee?
    The tweet doesn't specify, but I'll assume it's the calf. By comparing it to last year, I just mean that we're once again going through all of the debates over how he will fit in, while his return to the team continuously gets delayed by the "he's feels good, but we're just being cautious with him" stuff. You could cut and paste the quotes from last February and not notice the difference.

    I honestly have tried my best to be optimistic about all of this, but it gets hard after a while.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:


  21. #238
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    11,916

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'll try the glass half-full approach with him for once. Are we talking soreness in the calf or knee?
    The calf. The knee's 100%. Allegedly.

  22. #239
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,331

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Danny has never been a ball hog. Al Harrington he is not. But Danny has shot many, many times very early in the shot clock when the look wasn't all that good. From what I recall he seemed to miss 75% of those shots...and IMO that's where the "chucker" moniker is coming from.
    So, wait. The coach demanded players shoot early in the shot clock. We're now going to blame that on Danny.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BillS For This Useful Post:


  24. #240
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I honestly have tried my best to be optimistic about all of this, but it gets hard after a while.
    Why? He's still ahead of the schedule you laid out before the season.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  25. #241
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So, wait. The coach demanded players shoot early in the shot clock. We're now going to blame that on Danny.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    I wish Danny had spent his prime years playing for Vogel instead of playing for O'Brien.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  26. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Anthem For This Useful Post:


  27. #242
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,331

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I was thinking the same thing.

    I wish Danny had spent his prime years playing for Vogel instead of playing for O'Brien.
    You know, that explains it. JOB wasn't a bad coach - Danny MADE him coach that way. Because, you know, he's such a locker room cancer.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  28. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BillS For This Useful Post:


  29. #243
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    18,776

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Danny has never been a ball hog. Al Harrington he is not. But Danny has shot many, many times very early in the shot clock when the look wasn't all that good. From what I recall he seemed to miss 75% of those shots...and IMO that's where the "chucker" moniker is coming from.
    Fair enough. The term "chucker" has also come to imply "inefficient" as well (something that Danny isn't) but if your complaint is that he shot early in the shot clock in the JOB era then fair enough.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  30. #244
    Member hoosierguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,464

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    We need him back and as close to 100% as possible to go far in the playoffs. PG and Lance are still too inconsistent.

  31. #245
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Age
    28
    Posts
    17,372

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We need him back and as close to 100% as possible to go far in the playoffs. PG and Lance are still too inconsistent.
    I don't know if it's fair to say that PG is inconsistent. He did, after all, just break a nine-game streak of 20+ point games. However, Lance is too much of a wild card for my tastes. You don't know what you're going to get game-by-game or even quarter-by-quarter from him. I'm afraid the opposing game plan has become to rattle him early and watch him implode.

  32. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LoneGranger33 For This Useful Post:


  33. #246
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,877

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We need him back and as close to 100% as possible to go far in the playoffs. PG and Lance are still too inconsistent.
    So. We have a tough loss and now Lance and PG are too inconsistent for the Pacers to make a deep playoff run. Really?

    The starters and the bench have both improved. Yes the Bulls gave us a spanking but it was one single game. We spanked the heck out of the Heat last year several time and still lost to them....deep in the playoffs.....

  34. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BlueNGold For This Useful Post:


  35. #247
    Member hoosierguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,464

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't know if it's fair to say that PG is inconsistent. He did, after all, just break a nine-game streak of 20+ point games. However, Lance is too much of a wild card for my tastes. You don't know what you're going to get game-by-game or even quarter-by-quarter from him. I'm afraid the opposing game plan has become to rattle him early and watch him implode.
    What I've seen from PG is that when you body him up and get physical with him he goes into a shell or begs for calls from the refs.

  36. #248
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,348

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Yeah, PG is starting to beg to the refs way too much for my liking.

  37. #249
    Member hoosierguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,464

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So. We have a tough loss and now Lance and PG are too inconsistent for the Pacers to make a deep playoff run. Really?

    The starters and the bench have both improved. Yes the Bulls gave us a spanking but it was one single game. We spanked the heck out of the Heat last year several time and still lost to them....deep in the playoffs.....
    I saw this same PG and Lance in the playoffs last year when the season was on the line. They are young, I understand that, but they need to grow up and mature some more for the Pacers to get out of the East.

  38. #250
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    14,877

    Default Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Fair enough. The term "chucker" has also come to imply "inefficient" as well (something that Danny isn't) but if your complaint is that he shot early in the shot clock in the JOB era then fair enough.
    Ill advised shots. I suppose it was from ill advice given by perhaps one of the worst coaches in the history of the NBA.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •