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Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

  1. #1676

    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    The Pacers will probably have more than $7.7m because I really doubt both Cope and Scola will be on the roster next year.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Danny has been a beast at the FT line. Need to figure out how to get him more FT attempts
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Danny has been a beast at the FT line. Need to figure out how to get him more FT attempts
    Danny is our best player at getting to the line when he drives and would our best player at getting to the line period if he gets the shot attempts.
    That's what it comes down to is just getting him a few more minutes and shot attempts and both are up to Vogel. Even last night with Lance out for half of the game Danny only got 23 minutes when it should have been 30+. Danny should be averaging more then 25 minutes and I'd like to see Vogel push that closer to 30.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Danny is our best player at getting to the line when he drives and would our best player at getting to the line period if he gets the shot attempts.
    That's what it comes down to is just getting him a few more minutes and shot attempts and both are up to Vogel. Even last night with Lance out for half of the game Danny only got 23 minutes when it should have been 30+. Danny should be averaging more then 25 minutes and I'd like to see Vogel push that closer to 30.
    2nd night of a back-to-back...and hes still coming back...in time...but 30 minutes wouldve been too much...Im pretty sure they have him on a pretty strict minute watch...especially on the 2nd niters....

    As for the shot attempts...I think Danny is very conscious about "sharing" the ball and fitting in...as time goes by and somewhat to what you are alluding to, he may need to become a bit more "selfish"...and specifically do more of the driving, creating contact and getting to the line...something that would be good for all of our SF's to do more of

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    What's strange is that he gets a good arc on his FTs, but when I saw him shoot a couple of 3s, they were so flat. Why can't he get the same kind of arc as he does on his FTs? I honestly don't recall his shot always been that flat.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    2nd night of a back-to-back...and hes still coming back...in time...but 30 minutes wouldve been too much...Im pretty sure they have him on a pretty strict minute watch...especially on the 2nd niters....

    As for the shot attempts...I think Danny is very conscious about "sharing" the ball and fitting in...as time goes by and somewhat to what you are alluding to, he may need to become a bit more "selfish"...and specifically do more of the driving, creating contact and getting to the line...something that would be good for all of our SF's to do more of
    Add to that, Lance went down halfway through the 3rd quarter. The only way for Danny to get 30 minutes last night would have been to play the last 18 minutes. That would never happen. That is why Sual was used.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    What's strange is that he gets a good arc on his FTs, but when I saw him shoot a couple of 3s, they were so flat. Why can't he get the same kind of arc as he does on his FTs? I honestly don't recall his shot always been that flat.
    Well, he had one spectacularly flat 3 last night because he got the ball at his feet with a second left on the shot clock. He brought the ball up and chucked it at the rim to try to beat the buzzer. It was the flattest 3-point attempt I've ever seen from him.

    Apart from that, he sometimes is getting good arc on his shots, but other times I agree that he needs a bit more. Not sure what the problem is.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    What's strange is that he gets a good arc on his FTs, but when I saw him shoot a couple of 3s, they were so flat. Why can't he get the same kind of arc as he does on his FTs? I honestly don't recall his shot always been that flat.
    Isn't it that when you take a 3pt shot that it requires a lot more lift and spring in your legs when taking the shot?

    I think that his 3pt shot is a "hit or miss"......more hit at the beginning of the game than towards the end of the game. Maybe it's a matter of conditioning as the season goes on....but hopefully he "gets his legs" underneath him more.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    2nd night of a back-to-back...and hes still coming back...in time...but 30 minutes wouldve been too much...Im pretty sure they have him on a pretty strict minute watch...especially on the 2nd niters....

    As for the shot attempts...I think Danny is very conscious about "sharing" the ball and fitting in...as time goes by and somewhat to what you are alluding to, he may need to become a bit more "selfish"...and specifically do more of the driving, creating contact and getting to the line...something that would be good for all of our SF's to do more of

    I think Danny has shown he's able to handle the minutes at this stage of his return. I'd like to see 30 minutes in that situation not 40. On a nightly basis we should be seeing Danny on the floor at least 25 minutes and I'd like to see 30 in the near future. Both PG and Lance are logging too many minutes and it's showing in their defensive intensity these past 10 games. IMO the best thing for the team would be to see Paul and Lance average more like 33-35 minutes with Danny averaging only slightly less.

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  13. #1685

    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I think Danny has shown he's able to handle the minutes at this stage of his return. I'd like to see 30 minutes in that situation not 40. On a nightly basis we should be seeing Danny on the floor at least 25 minutes and I'd like to see 30 in the near future. Both PG and Lance are logging too many minutes and it's showing in their defensive intensity these past 10 games. IMO the best thing for the team would be to see Paul and Lance average more like 33-35 minutes with Danny averaging only slightly less.
    The question becomes how that logistically happens. The normal rotation is to have starters-bench-starters in each half. Does that mean Danny plays 14 consecutive minutes in each half? That seems like a lot. It's more than the Pacers ask any other player to play without a rest other than occasionally George. Or does it mean that Danny comes in for awhile, comes out, then comes in again? That would likely mean though that he would be finishing each half and ending the game on the floor.

    If you go in with the thoughts that you want to play Danny close to 30 minutes, but you don't want him playing more than a quarter at a time, and you don't want him finishing the game, that becomes awfully difficult to do. It seems like Vogel has just decided to play him a few less minutes instead of violating one of the other principles.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    The question becomes how that logistically happens. The normal rotation is to have starters-bench-starters in each half. Does that mean Danny plays 14 consecutive minutes in each half? That seems like a lot. It's more than the Pacers ask any other player to play without a rest other than occasionally George. Or does it mean that Danny comes in for awhile, comes out, then comes in again? That would likely mean though that he would be finishing each half and ending the game on the floor.

    If you go in with the thoughts that you want to play Danny close to 30 minutes, but you don't want him playing more than a quarter at a time, and you don't want him finishing the game, that becomes awfully difficult to do. It seems like Vogel has just decided to play him a few less minutes instead of violating one of the other principles.
    It's not really that hard. We play our starters with our bench anyway so it's just a matter of pulling Lance or Paul a few minutes earlier and inserting Danny with both units some. In most games I like Danny finishing over Lance especially we're getting fouled and being sent to the line.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    It's not really that hard. We play our starters with our bench anyway so it's just a matter of pulling Lance or Paul a few minutes earlier and inserting Danny with both units some. In most games I like Danny finishing over Lance especially we're getting fouled and being sent to the line.
    Which hasn't happened before the Atlanta game really... Most games have been relatively large margins of victory or defeat...

  17. #1688

    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    It's not really that hard. We play our starters with our bench anyway so it's just a matter of pulling Lance or Paul a few minutes earlier and inserting Danny with both units some. In most games I like Danny finishing over Lance especially we're getting fouled and being sent to the line.
    I thought the same thing, but then I tried to map it out. Try that as an experiment. Write down exactly when a player is going to go in and out during a normal game and try to make the numbers work. It is incredibly difficult unless you violate one of the premises.

    As far as finishing games, I don't think the Pacers are at the level of wanting Granger in. Foul situations are a unique animal, and that's usually what a team has timeouts for. I think Granger will be in during those situations, but that's usually less than a minute of game time.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    I thought the same thing, but then I tried to map it out. Try that as an experiment. Write down exactly when a player is going to go in and out during a normal game and try to make the numbers work. It is incredibly difficult unless you violate one of the premises.

    As far as finishing games, I don't think the Pacers are at the level of wanting Granger in. Foul situations are a unique animal, and that's usually what a team has timeouts for. I think Granger will be in during those situations, but that's usually less than a minute of game time.
    I think you look at Paul and Lance logging too many minutes as one issue and Danny not getting enough as another although ideally we have a split 3 man rotation at the 2/3. Even if we didn't give those extra minutes to Danny I still think both Paul and Lance need their time reduced by 3-4 minutes on average.
    I don't believe in robotic rotations and I like the fact that Frank keeps a starter in with the bench most of the time. We need to be flexible within our rotations but I'd start by pulling either PG, Lance or GH earlier in the 1st quarter then bring in Danny and rotate from there. Danny could come in 6 minutes into the first quarter and play early into the 2cd, take a break and then close the half, then take a similar approach to the second half. If you have to play Lance a few minutes at the point alone then so be it. Some games Danny can come in early, go out and back in to close but some games he'd play for longer stretches or may log a few minutes at the 4. I don't agree with you on not having Danny close. Danny is a strong closer but be need whoever is playing well to close and we need to be flexible by going with what we need since all 3 players bring a different dimension. If we had Lance in last night instead of Danny I think we lose that game. We're wearing down Paul and Lance right now and it's obvious while at the same time we have Danny ready to contribute more. Frank just needs to change a little bit and find a way to make it work for the good of the team.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    The Pacers will probably have more than $7.7m because I really doubt both Cope and Scola will be on the roster next year.
    That means we can offer Scola his 4 million or less and Danny the 3.7 million we have left and wave goodbye to Lance? Or do we have 7.7m after we sign Lance? I don't see anyone in the NBA making us an offer for either Scola or Cope where they just take the salary and let us free up money. These kind of money problems are why teams pay GM's the kind of money they do. The difference in being a profitable org. and being a tax write off drain on the City and/or the Corp. that owns the franchise is in the hands of guys like Bird, who have(in most cases) no ownership in the team at all. Having said that, I would not be surprised if Larry has a stake in the ownership of the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Danny has been a beast at the FT line. Need to figure out how to get him more FT attempts
    drive the ball
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I almost feel like Danny (a career 84.9% free throw shooter that is shooting 95.7% so far this year) has spent 2 years shooting nothing but free throws. Almost as if he couldn't run or jump due to a knee injury and had nothing else to do...
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    In an attempt to bring the Danny discussion beyond "his FG% is crap, he sucks now" I have gathered some stats to take a more in-depth look at what is going on.

    The Good:

    The Pacers are +9.2 when Danny is on the court, and +7.8 when he is off for a net of +1.3, placing him 5th on the team ahead of Stephenson at +1.2.

    Granger has the 6th best cumulative +/- on the team at +117 with only playing 24% of the minutes. In comparison Watson has played 38%, Scola 36%, and Mahinmi 32%. His per minue +/- is 5th on the team at +.1839 ahead of Lance at +.1734.

    His Net48, the team's net points per 48 minutes of playing time for the player, is +9.2. Again fifth on the team ahead of Lance at +8.5.

    His Win% is 65.4, 6th best on the team.

    The team grabs 4% more rebounds with him on the floor.

    96.2 FT%

    His opponents at the SF position have a PER of 9.0. He is PER is 10.8, giving him a net of +1.8.

    Drtg of 99 is the best of his career.

    At home he has a 38.2% 3P%.

    His 3P% is up to 36% in February, an improvement of 5% from January.

    When playing between 20-29 minutes (17 games) he has a 3P% of 41.3% .

    On 1 day of rest (13 games) his 3P% is 41.5%. 3 days of rest and he shoots 42.9%.

    He shoots 43.2% FG% on Wednesday.

    In February he is scoring 8.6 points on 2.7 FGM a slight improvement over 8.5points on 3.0FGM in January.



    The Bad:

    FG% 35.9%

    On the road he has a Drtg of 105

    On 0 days of rest he has an Ortg of 92

    TO% 12.8% tied for highest in his career

    FTr, FTA per FGA, is .238 lowest of his career (not including the 5 games last season).

    3PAr is .422 highest of his career

    TS% 49.1%



    The Ugly:

    With less than 5 seconds on the shot clock, which accounts for 13% of his shots, he has an eFG% of 30.4%. During which the amount of his shots being assisted drops from over 60% to 25%.

    On the Road his 3P% is 25.6%, Ortg is 88.

    When he plays 10-19 minutes (9 games) his FG% is 27.1% and his 3P% is 13.6%.

    With 0 days of rest (8 games) his FG% is 33.3% and 3P% is 23.1%.



    Conclusion:

    Granger is struggling on the road and with back-to-backs. His FG% isn't good anyways, except for Wednesdays oddly enough, but his 3P%, Ortg, and Drtg is drastically different at home vs away and 0 days of rest vs 1 day. This to me suggests he is still struggling some with his conditioning, and just the general grind of the NBA season. The Pacers have more back-to-backs than most teams, and since Danny has been back 6 of the 8 have been on the road (overall 14 of our 20 second night of back-to-backs are on the road).

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Man, I'll take the over on that. Care to make a friendly wager?

    EDIT: Here's my proposal: I'll bet that Danny comes back and plays more than 50% of the remaining games between now and the playoffs. You go with your version. If I win, your signature (during the playoffs and all summer long) is "Don't necessarily believe what I say; I'm unnecessarily pessimistic. Anthem is more of a realist." If you win, I change my signature to say "Don't necessarily believe what I say; I'm unnecessarily optimistic. BlueNGold is more of a realist."
    Between the time of your post on Dec 15th and the end of the regular season, 58 games were to be played. He came back to play exactly 29 games.

    You said more than half, right?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Between the time of your post on Dec 15th and the end of the regular season, 58 games were to be played. He came back to play exactly 29 games.

    You said more than half, right?
    Did he specify with the Pacers?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Did he specify with the Pacers?
    Depends on what he means by "coming back". Then he says "go with your version".

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