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Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Kaman doesn't have to be a full time rim protector....just one 18 to 20 mpg at most ( Assuming that Mahinmi is traded and he's backing up Hibbert ).
    By full time I meant to do it the whole time that he is on the court on the defensive end. Kaman is capable of nice defensive plays but he doesn't do that all the time. That's what I meant.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    When it comes to Kaman, there's a reason why the Lakers are playing Robert Sacre over him. Dude is just never happy with his role unless he's starting and being featured on offense. He's not the kind of guy I want on this team, especially at the expense of Ian who has been awesome the last two games.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    When it comes to Kaman, there's a reason why the Lakers are playing Robert Sacre over him. Dude is just never happy with his role unless he's starting and being featured on offense. He's not the kind of guy I want on this team, especially at the expense of Ian who has been awesome the last two games.
    That was explained last year, when this trade idea kept popping up all over the place. Didn't do any good then, doubt it does now either.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What about his 2 seasons with Vogel? Or his 2 seasons with Carlisle? And "open floor" 3PA sure did lead to A LOT of FTAs for Danny in year 3 (6.9 per game).

    Dunleavy also didn't exactly thrive. He sucked that first half season, had a good season, got hurt and had a horrible season, then had a poor comeback season, then a final decent year....shooting only. His assists were always low for a "great offensive awareness" player and he didn't draw FTAs all that well. He's been identical in 2 MIL seasons and so far in Chicago, except taking a couple less 2PAs a night which keeps him down a few points in PPG.
    IDK. I think both Dunleavy and Granger benefited a great deal from Jim's offense. Mike's 3 highest scoring years were in Indiana under JOb's tutelage with his very best season as a pro was in 2007-08 starting and averaging over 19ppg. He started only 6 games for Milwaukee and 8 for Chicago, apparently playing against backups.

    Granger blew up under Jim O'Brien in 2008-09 and made his first and only all-star team that year. He got everyone's attention averaging over 25ppg. But the only coach he ever averaged over 20ppg for was Jim O'Brien. That will almost certainly hold true for his entire career.

    Really, I think these points have already been proven. But I will say that Granger probably played his very best basketball for Vogel in the playoffs...averaging 21.6ppg. That was an impressive performance. So, this shows Granger can produce under pressure. But with this team? I don't think there's enough attempts for him to get up over 20ppg regular season or playoffs.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    IDK. I think both Dunleavy and Granger benefited a great deal from Jim's offense. Mike's 3 highest scoring years were in Indiana under JOb's tutelage with his very best season as a pro was in 2007-08 starting and averaging over 19ppg. He started only 6 games for Milwaukee and 8 for Chicago, apparently playing against backups.

    Granger blew up under Jim O'Brien in 2008-09 and made his first and only all-star team that year. He got everyone's attention averaging over 25ppg. But the only coach he ever averaged over 20ppg for was Jim O'Brien. That will almost certainly hold true for his entire career.

    Really, I think these points have already been proven. But I will say that Granger probably played his very best basketball for Vogel in the playoffs...averaging 21.6ppg. That was an impressive performance. So, this shows Granger can produce under pressure. But with this team? I don't think there's enough attempts for him to get up over 20ppg regular season or playoffs.
    We don't need him to average 20 PPG with this team.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    We don't need him to average 20 PPG with this team.
    No question about it. Every day I think I agree with you more on DG. On this team, I would hope he could average in the teens. I'm not fussy. I would prefer to see Paul George become even more efficient and score over 20 but even that's not necessary. If we win with 5 guys averaging 15ppg and 3 more averaging 10ppg, that's fine.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I just don't know if there is such a big need for a 3rd big. Will they see a lot of PT in order to make this move meaningful?

    I mean, there are some bigs in Europe that could be had easily and fill that 3rd big spot if this is so important.
    I don't see a single need on a team headed toward 70 wins, at least if you add Granger shooting 40% from the bench with 4-5 reb, a block, a couple of assits and some good wing post defense. Ian has started to look a lot more like Roy, Watson is an ideal backup PG.

    You know what is helping this team more than anything? CHEMISTRY. So sure, let's go f*** with that a bit. Rondo or Kaman, both with reps for being disgruntled. Trade them for Hill and Granger, two guys that are loved by the team and productive. There is only one person who would make a Hill/Granger for Rondo deal.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I don't see a single need on a team headed toward 70 wins, at least if you add Granger shooting 40% from the bench with 4-5 reb, a block, a couple of assits and some good wing post defense. Ian has started to look a lot more like Roy, Watson is an ideal backup PG.

    You know what is helping this team more than anything? CHEMISTRY. So sure, let's go f*** with that a bit. Rondo or Kaman, both with reps for being disgruntled. Trade them for Hill and Granger, two guys that are loved by the team and productive. There is only one person who would make a Hill/Granger for Rondo deal.
    I'd do it in NBA 2k14.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Danny has to stop stepping out of bounds before he can shoot 40%

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    The guy was garbage today expected but is the true, he couldn't do anything, lets hope he doesn't have this type of games in closer games.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The guy was garbage today expected but is the true
    Is is a typo or are you talking like future Neanderthal Tom Hanks from Cloud Atlas on purpose?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Whatever, first night of a back to back. Is what it is, I'm just happy he played.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I'm not going to start judging his performances until mid-January

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I don't think sandman and seth are dreaming they are serious about it, this is "lets give Jeff Foster another contract because he is the heart and soul of the team" all over again.
    I never said a word about giving Danny a ridiculous contract. Lance clearly has to be the priority resigning in the offseason, but I'm saying that Mr. Simon was hesitant about going into tax territory when his team was struggling to fill the stands, as he understandably should have been, and I don't blame him for that a bit. But now that there was been a big (and VERY noticeable) uptick in attendance, I think that he could perhaps be persuaded into opening the checkbook a little more for a short period of time, especially should we get close but fall short of winning the title, which would include the POSSIBILITY of signing Danny to a REASONABLE contract.

    And for the record, considering Jeff basically babysat an very immature at the time Lance during the lockout when Bird and Clark Kellogg couldn't have any contact with him (despite IIRC not being under contract to the Pacers), I'm okay with that "heart and soul of the team" contract for that year even though it didn't quite work out on the court. No harm, no foul.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    There is only one person who would make a Hill/Granger for Rondo deal.
    And he should stick to writing business news for a business news digest?
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    For those criticizing Danny's passing game, would it be a coincidence that Danny's return and our bench playing better even with Danny's low shooting %?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
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    For those criticizing Danny's passing game, would it be a coincidence that Danny's return and our bench playing better even with Danny's low shooting %?
    Inconclusive IMHO…..with such a small sample size. I'd like to believe that he's making the difference in the last 2 blow outs…..but there's no way for me to tell if our Starting 5 is simply laying waste to the Celtics and Nets Starting 5.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I don't see a single need on a team headed toward 70 wins, at least if you add Granger shooting 40% from the bench with 4-5 reb, a block, a couple of assits and some good wing post defense. Ian has started to look a lot more like Roy, Watson is an ideal backup PG.

    You know what is helping this team more than anything? CHEMISTRY. So sure, let's go f*** with that a bit. Rondo or Kaman, both with reps for being disgruntled. Trade them for Hill and Granger, two guys that are loved by the team and productive. There is only one person who would make a Hill/Granger for Rondo deal.
    I like our team, love the players and I'd be fine with this roster for the long haul. But I'd do that (Boston)trade in a millisecond, are you kidding me? Rondo is not only a clear upgrade at our weakest position, he's also a Heat killer and a champion, 2 things none of the other so-called distributor point guards in the NBA can claim. Oh and btw we'd only be giving up a guy without a clearly defined position/purpose on the team and another guy we're likely losing next yr if he stays healthy.

    He had a rep for being disgruntled, pretty much entirely because of those darn unnamed sources.

    We have a team full of reputation guys. Lance had a rep of being uncoachable. Hibbert had the reputation of being aloof and mentally fragile. Paul George had the rep of not wanting the pressure of the spotlight & of being un-clutch. And at least there were more than unnamed sources involved there. The point is those guys grew up as I'm sure Rondo did if he had any issues to begin with. By all directly attributable accounts he's been a model teammate.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Rondo at PG would make our defense totally outrageous. Maybe the best defense in the history of the NBA. He is a leader and if healthy and fit with this team we would completely dominate the NBA for the next 5 years. He's really that good of a player.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    I like our team, love the players and I'd be fine with this roster for the long haul. But I'd do that (Boston)trade in a millisecond, are you kidding me? Rondo is not only a clear upgrade at our weakest position, he's also a Heat killer and a champion, 2 things none of the other so-called distributor point guards in the NBA can claim. Oh and btw we'd only be giving up a guy without a clearly defined position/purpose on the team and another guy we're likely losing next yr if he stays healthy.

    He had a rep for being disgruntled, pretty much entirely because of those darn unnamed sources.

    We have a team full of reputation guys. Lance had a rep of being uncoachable. Hibbert had the reputation of being aloof and mentally fragile. Paul George had the rep of not wanting the pressure of the spotlight & of being un-clutch. And at least there were more than unnamed sources involved there. The point is those guys grew up as I'm sure Rondo did if he had any issues to begin with. By all directly attributable accounts he's been a model teammate.
    I wouldn't want Rondo right now, but that's only because I doubt we'll see a 100% Rondo this season. I think we'll have to wait until next year to see the Rondo of old. I agree with everything else you say about Rondo though. The guy is as clutch as they come. He was by far the biggest reason that the Celtics took the Heat to Game 7 of the ECF's. KG was huge too, but KG's buckets often came as a result of Rondo putting him in such good position to score. And don't forget that in 2011, the Heat were able to easily beat the Celtics in 5 only because Wade took out Rondo's wing in Game 3 (which the Celtics won easily). Rondo always took it to the Heat and was the reason that AARP roster had Miami on the ropes a couple of years back. Also, he was obviously the main reason Boston went to the Finals in 2010. He kept the Big 3 era relevant for far longer than it would have been without him.

    The whole "Rondo is an unstable bad teammate" stuff is one of the biggest myths in the history of modern civilization. I've yet to see single piece of reliable evidence proving it. KG, Pierce, and Doc had no trouble hanging on after the 2012 season when they were coming off of the ECF run fueled by Rondo. It was only after Rondo was hurt that they saw the writing on the wall and wanted out. Yet that's somehow supposed to mean that Rondo is a cancer? Amazing how he's such a cancer, yet the Celtics have kept him through all of these years.

    Rondo is just a winner. It might sound cliche', but it's the cold hard truth. With Stevens, Rondo, and the draft picks coming their way, that team will be winning a lot in the future.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-24-2013 at 03:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    I like our team, love the players and I'd be fine with this roster for the long haul. But I'd do that (Boston)trade in a millisecond, are you kidding me? Rondo is not only a clear upgrade at our weakest position, he's also a Heat killer and a champion, 2 things none of the other so-called distributor point guards in the NBA can claim. Oh and btw we'd only be giving up a guy without a clearly defined position/purpose on the team and another guy we're likely losing next yr if he stays healthy.
    Let's ignore that this rumor is fake and let's discuss the trade a bit.

    1) Rondo is owed 12 million this season and 13 million in the next. This makes re-signing Lance significantly harder and we would also have to re-sign Rondo after the 14/15 season.

    2) We're giving up 2 players while getting 1 in return which means that our depth for this very season will decrease. We would have to rely to Rasual Butler, OJ and Solo Hill for back-up wing minutes.

    3) Are we sure that Rondo is a good fit here? He is a ball dominant player that is going to take the ball away from the hands of Paul George and Lance Stephenson. Do we want that? He is also an awful 3 point shooter (although, he has improved his mid-range shooting). Teams do not respect his 3 point shooting and thus the lane would clog horribly to deter his drives and that would make life hard for our post players as well.

    4) Chemistry is extremely important at what we do as well. I don't think that trading away 2 players that have important roles will help with that. However, I am well aware that some people don't care about chemistry if it's an "upgrade" from a talent viewpoint and thus I won't argue the chemistry point anything further than that.

    5) We are 23-5.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    The whole "Rondo is an unstable bad teammate" stuff is one of the biggest myths in the history of modern civilization. I've yet to see single piece of reliable evidence proving it.
    Ray Allen would disagree. It's true that most rumors about anyone else have not been verified but the rumors about Allen have been verified.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Inconclusive IMHO…..with such a small sample size. I'd like to believe that he's making the difference in the last 2 blow outs…..but there's no way for me to tell if our Starting 5 is simply laying waste to the Celtics and Nets Starting 5.
    Not that it says a lot but here are the +/- of our 4-man bench (Luis, Ian, Danny, CJ) in those last 3 games:

    Houston: Scola +12, Granger +12, Mahinmi +8, Watson +8. Average: +10.

    Boston: Scola +12, Granger +17, Mahinmi +15, Watson +12. Average: +14.

    Nets: Scola +6, Granger -1, Mahinmi +3, Watson -3. Average: +1.25.

    So, the bench certainly helped a lot in the Boston and Houston games. They increased the lead in both games. Against the Nets, the bench simply held its own and that's why this was a 17 point win instead of a 30 point blowout.

    PS: Not that +/- says a lot, of course. It is a fairly incomplete statistic that can be misinterpreted easily. The signs are positive, though.
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  35. #1499

    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I found the drop off of Granger's game against the Nets and the fact that it was his first back to back since his return interesting. The longer I watch the NBA, the more it seems the back to backs really do sap the energy from players. Danny just seem to have no lift to his shots and very little offensive energy against Bykn. His defense was okay, but the game conditioning really showed, IMO.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    I found the drop off of Granger's game against the Nets and the fact that it was his first back to back since his return interesting. The longer I watch the NBA, the more it seems the back to backs really do sap the energy from players. Danny just seem to have no lift to his shots and very little offensive energy against Bykn. His defense was okay, but the game conditioning really showed, IMO.
    Yes, they do have a big effect. I'm not at all surprised that Granger played really poor on a back to back. I expect him to come back around and have better games going forward. I don't know where he maxes out but that last game was probably his worst game. I fully expect him to have some great games if he maintains his health and don't be surprised if he cracks 20 points in January.

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