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Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I'm just happy about the possibility of putting Danny on the tweener 3/4s like Josh Smith when needed.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    And here I thought this was the most important part of Bird's quote (and I agree wholeheartedly, Danny has to remake himself into a defensive menace to earn [significant] minutes with this team):

    "It all boils down to how he defends, and that'll determine how many minutes he gets."

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I think that PG and Roy can get the most out of our starting unit primarily due to their defensive chemistry.
    On defense, I would agree.

    But until this team learns to pass the ball from side to side (like Larry Bird has been saying for years), Lance has the potential to help create on offense with the starters by far more than any other player. Paul is certainly the best player but he's not the guy who can make other players A LOT better. Think Jason Kidd when you think of what Lance Stephenson can do to help other guys out on offense.

    Does he need to mature? Sure. Is he a wild card? Absolutely. But he does have Magic Johnson-like talent...just not the discipline and maturity. He is basically a poor man's LeBron James.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    On defense, I would agree.

    But until this team learns to pass the ball from side to side (like Larry Bird has been saying for years), Lance has the potential to help create on offense with the starters by far more than any other player. Paul is certainly the best player but he's not the guy who can make other players A LOT better. Think Jason Kidd when you think of what Lance Stephenson can do to help other guys out on offense.

    Does he need to mature? Sure. Is he a wild card? Absolutely. But he does have Magic Johnson-like talent...just not the discipline and maturity. He is basically a poor man's LeBron James.
    I'm talking about the game as a whole. Defense + offense.

    Lance is certainly one of our most important players as I said earlier but I think that Roy and PG are more important for the starting unit.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Really? Go read the first few pages of this thread again.

    I will say, as somebody who wanted to see Danny start, that the best time to move him to the starting lineup was the beginning of the season. We're far enough in, and doing well enough, that you'd hate to make big changes now unless you're forced to.
    I don't really understand why it would make a difference. We're not that far in IMO. IF it was really better to have Danny start, assuming normal preparation he should be able to start at the beginning of 2014 with no problem going forward. I would actually support it if I thought it was ever a good idea.

    But now with the record on the books, it's obviously fixing something that isn't broken. We just got through a brutal part of the schedule and still lead the east AFTER losing to Miami.

    From the beginning, Granger should have been considered gravy this year. That is, a plus or maybe a big-time plus coming off the bench. We should all be able to celebrate that.

    To put Granger in the starting line up (now or 2 months ago), the same questions would need to be answered now or in the beginning. How would Lance react to a demotion? What happens to chemistry? Do you really want to re-sign an aging Granger or re-sign a young and promising Lance who can grow and compete for championships with Paul George. Who closes out games? IMO, it should be the starter. What happens if Granger goes down at the wrong time and disrupts the starting unit? To win a championship it's not an easy task. You have to have a finely tuned unit to close out games. That takes in-game practice and repetition...trusting your team mates. If Granger got all that repetition during the year...when the pressure was really on...where does that leave this team if he has knee issues late in the season? It leaves Lance with less experience going down the stretch. Now, if Lance is in the game instead of Granger for most of the crucial moments of the game, I would have no problem with Granger starting all year. But I don't see the point of it.

    Fortunately, none of those questions will need to be answered because Lance will start the rest of this year as well as next year.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    And here I thought this was the most important part of Bird's quote (and I agree wholeheartedly, Danny has to remake himself into a defensive menace to earn [significant] minutes with this team):

    "It all boils down to how he defends, and that'll determine how many minutes he gets."
    Another quote that is shutting down the myth that he was a good defender, why would Vogel say that about a good defender?

    I'm expecting more myths to be shut down next year when he is not longer with the team.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I'm talking about the game as a whole. Defense + offense.

    Lance is certainly one of our most important players as I said earlier but I think that Roy and PG are more important for the starting unit.
    I think we have agreement on that point. Hibbert is the most important player on this team IMO...simply because he's the anchor of the defense. Paul, however, comes in a very close second.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Another quote that is shutting down the myth that he was a good defender, why would Vogel say that about a good defender?
    Vogel is clearly unsure how Danny will defend. That's quite natural given the circumstances and is an example of the kind of healthy skepticism there should be at this point.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    How will Danny react to being the second best player off the bench? Before the season, it was assumed that Danny would be our primary scorer off the bench. Scola is now that guy
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    I'm just happy about the possibility of putting Danny on the tweener 3/4s like Josh Smith when needed.
    Mm-hmm. He's good at holding his position on the low block; I recall him doing the best job of anyone in '12 when we'd play Atlanta and we needed to defend Smith posting up. Could come in handy vs. Detroit if he can still do it.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Danny has gone from our best player to our seventh best player. Will he be OK with this severely reduced role?
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Another quote that is shutting down the myth that he was a good defender, why would Vogel say that about a good defender?

    I'm expecting more myths to be shut down next year when he is not longer with the team.
    Uh...I dunno...maybe a little something to do with the fact hes coming back from knee surgery, hasnt played at a high level in almost 2 years and is in his 30's for starters....

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I think we have agreement on that point. Hibbert is the most important player on this team IMO...simply because he's the anchor of the defense. Paul, however, comes in a very close second.
    Yep. That's exactly what I'm saying as well.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Mm-hmm. He's good at holding his position on the low block; I recall him doing the best job of anyone in '12 when we'd play Atlanta and we needed to defend Smith posting up. Could come in handy vs. Detroit if he can still do it.
    And the likes of Lebron, Melo.etc...Paul is a premier perimeter defender...Hes not quite as effective with some of the bigger 3's that take him down on the block and try to overpower him...whereas Danny's build allows him to play more of the 3/4 guys....Danny was always best suited guarding 3's and 4's while Paul is much more of a 3,2,1 guy...thats why they work pretty well when theyre in together...

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Danny has gone from our best player to our seventh best player. Will he be OK with this severely reduced role?
    Have you seen anything at all...anything...that would suggest he wouldnt? I swear I wonder if anyone listens to all of the players and all that is said all the time....I guess theres no drama or questions regarding all these issues inside the lockerroom so those outside have to try and create some...suddenly everyone takes on a national enquirer approach...

    The only questions that rationally exist are just how good and effective Danny will actually be once he is fully healthy and kicks off all the rust...and whether he will be able to stay that way...

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    To put Granger in the starting line up (now or 2 months ago), the same questions would need to be answered now or in the beginning.How would Lance react to a demotion?
    At the beginning of the season he said that he was exhited about the opportunity to lead the bench. I think that Lance wants to have the ball in his hands and thus he would embrace that role.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    What happens to chemistry?
    It would still be amazing. This team has never had bad chemistry under Vogel. Our starting 5 kicked *** with Granger in 11-12 and it still kicked *** with Lance in 12-13.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Do you really want to re-sign an aging Granger or re-sign a young and promising Lance who can grow and compete for championships with Paul George.
    How is that relevant with who you're starting? Before the season I'd certainly re-sign Lance but I might starter Granger for tactical reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Who closes out games? IMO, it should be the starter.
    You have every right to believe that it should be the starter but several coaches disagree with you. Harden wasn't a starter in OKC but he consistently closed out games. Popovich does not start Ginobili but he is always there in crunch time.

    Who closes out games would probably depend on the game and what we need out of our players.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    What happens if Granger goes down at the wrong time and disrupts the starting unit?
    What happens if Hibbert goes down at the wrong time and disrupts the starting unit?

    What happens if West goes down at the wrong time and disrupts the starting unit?

    What happens if PG goes down at the wrong time and disrupts the starting unit?

    What happens if Lance goes down at the wrong time and disrupts the starting unit?

    What happens if Hill goes down at the wrong time and disrupts the starting unit?

    Serious injuries to an important team member suck.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Vogel is clearly unsure how Danny will defend. That's quite natural given the circumstances and is an example of the kind of healthy skepticism there should be at this point.
    I agree with what Vogel said but what Vnzla said is nowhere close to "healthy skepticism".
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    How will Danny react to being the second best player off the bench? Before the season, it was assumed that Danny would be our primary scorer off the bench. Scola is now that guy
    We don't know this for sure. Danny could end up scoring more than Scola. We will see. It is certainly great to have two very capable scorers off the bench, though.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Really? Go read the first few pages of this thread again.
    This thread was originally the "Granger to resume practice thread" so I don't consider it the definitive source on Granger discussions back into the preseason.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    One of the things with DG is his size. Off the bench they do not have someone like him. He knows who to pass to for an assist.
    He knows where to be on defense.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Mm-hmm. He's good at holding his position on the low block; I recall him doing the best job of anyone in '12 when we'd play Atlanta and we needed to defend Smith posting up. Could come in handy vs. Detroit if he can still do it.
    And Joe Johnson. And Kawhi. And Dudley. And Melo. And Parsons.

    I am not expecting perfection. But we need low post defense against periemeter players besides George. Lance is good, but even Joe Johnson destroyed him on the block. I was surprised that when we put Lance on Lebron they didn't go to the post with Lebron. In fact that alone is why Spoelstra is a great coach. The Heat pressured our defense most when they put Lebron in the post.

  35. #1347

    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Lance is always the first one subbed out. Then West and Hill. PG and Roy usually play the entire first
    You're absolutely right. I guess I was thinking about last year when Roy and West didn't usually run the entire 1st quarter. Now Lance is normally the first one out so he can run with the 2nd unit. That should still make Danny the 1st guy off the bench. Works out just right, eh? Feel a little sad for whomever is guarding Lance and then sees PG moving to the 2.

  36. #1348

    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    You're absolutely right. I guess I was thinking about last year when Roy and West didn't usually run the entire 1st quarter. Now Lance is normally the first one out so he can run with the 2nd unit. That should still make Danny the 1st guy off the bench. Works out just right, eh? Feel a little sad for whomever is guarding Lance and then sees PG moving to the 2.
    Actually Danny will play the role of a 2-guard on the offense, while PG plays the role of the SF, switches around on defense, as DG is too slow to guard 2s.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    How will Danny react to being the second best player off the bench? Before the season, it was assumed that Danny would be our primary scorer off the bench. Scola is now that guy

    If he can stay healthy for very long Granger will be the best player off the bench and our second best scorer. A healthy Granger is a better player then Scola. Nice combination though. I want that from Granger and I don't think from your past quotes that you do. However, it doesn't matter what we want. The if remains for Granger right now but beyond that, in time the performanc of Lance, Scola and Granger will dictate their place in the offense.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    To use Vogel's comment on Danny's defensive abilities dictating his minutes moving forward as being indicative of whether or not Danny has ever been a solid or good defender is quite possibly some of the poorest (lazy?) logic I've witnessed. Of course Vogel i concerned about player X's ability to play defense after playing 5 games in 2 years coming off a major injury on wrong side of 30…..a lateral quickness loss is expected without an injury as one advances into their 30s much less an injury and lack of game legs…..this kind of blind useless logic and grasping for bits of dialogue to further an obsessive agenda is not only useless but laughable.

    I don't know what kind of defender Danny can be moving forward. Only time will tell as I think Vogel was getting at, but if you look back on Danny's first few seasons in the league he showed great promise as a defender…something that wained as we became the apple of obriens eye at which point he was relied very heavily on as almost the sole offensive weapon….it doesn't give him a complete pass on the decline but certainly an explanation with a change in team identity. regardless….the logic I am referring to is bunk.

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