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Thread: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    It sounds like we won't have any problem keeping Granger for vet minimum, since he's a chucker who never played defense or offense, was never more than a 6th man if he hadn't played for the worst team in the league and will be lucky to be able to play as well as the 15th guy on a championship team.
    I would like to remind you that he called himself a chucker so get mad at him for saying it, so how about responding my previous post?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would like to remind you that he called himself a chucker so get mad at him for saying it, so how about responding my previous post?
    Paul Pierce can call himself LeBron James but it doesn't make him MVP.

    I know that your point is that you interpret this as Danny saying he was never anything but a 3-point shooter. I don't agree with that even if he says it. I know YOU agree with it, though, so that answer is probably not acceptable.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I mean we really don't know for sure what Danny said. Broussard does not actually quote him and it is a tweet for crying out loud. God why am I back in here.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Having admitted to being a pretty solid Danny Granger fan since seeing him play at UNM, I will admit that I didn't know he was so useless as a pro. Seemed to me that DG and the less talented group that replaced the winningest team in Pacer history held their own for a long time until the team finally imploded. I would hope that Danny comes back, plays decently and contributes to an ECF Championship and a Finals appearance. After that, it would not surprise me to see him retire. Danny has homes in LA, Albq and Indy. He has young children and a pretty close knit family, IIRC. Doubt he would put himself at risk to stay in the league for MLE on a new team(other than the Lakers) or strain the finances of the Pacers to stay here. Maybe coaching in the future? Asst. to Vogel? I just wish him the best for this year and the help I feel he can give the Pacers for the playoff run.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would like to remind you that he called himself a chucker so get mad at him for saying it, so how about responding my previous post?
    You haven't provided a quote where he calls himself a chucker. Quotes have quotation marks, the tweet you're trying to use doesn't have any.
    Last edited by Since86; 12-20-2013 at 12:15 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would like to remind you that he called himself a chucker so get mad at him for saying it, so how about responding my previous post?
    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You haven't provided a quote where he calls himself a chucker. Quotes have quotation marks, the tweet your trying to use doesn't have any.
    And this coming from a fan of montae ellis and JR Smith....makes no sense...things were so much more quiet and rational for about a month not too long ago...wonder why and what changed

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Paul Pierce can call himself LeBron James but it doesn't make him MVP.

    I know that your point is that you interpret this as Danny saying he was never anything but a 3-point shooter. I don't agree with that even if he says it. I know YOU agree with it, though, so that answer is probably not acceptable.

    I have never said that he was just a 3 point shooter what I said before is that he WAS a chucker and it looks like we agree on that(I think) my question is if you agree that he was a chucker because JOB was forcing him(lets say that he was forcing him) why he was still a chucker with Vogel? and were is your evidence other than HOPE that he won't be the chucker he once was?

    2 simple questions Bills and please lets stop with the sarcasm those comments are not bringing anything to the conversation.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I have never said that he was just a 3 point shooter what I said before is that he WAS a chucker and it looks like we agree on that(I think) my question is if you agree that he was a chucker because JOB was forcing him(lets say that he was forcing him) why he was still a chucker with Vogel? and were is your evidence other than HOPE that he won't be the chucker he once was?

    2 simple questions Bills and please lets stop with the sarcasm those comments are not bringing anything to the conversation.
    He was still the primary scoring option under Vogel. The team was still a jump-shooting team because no one was able to get the ball in to Roy, who also wasn't as strong an offensive option at that time. The offense itself also didn't change drastically right away when Frank took over, only the increase in at least TRYING to get it into the paint and the timing (don't necessarily take the quick shot).

    Without going through every single play I have nothing to "prove" anything, since you find statistics unacceptable. We've seen that in the argument we've made over and over that for his utilization and his scoring rate he must have been doing something other than just heaving up shots and turning the ball over. That makes answering your question about "why" I don't think he'll be a chucker impossible to answer to your satisfaction.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I have never said that he was just a 3 point shooter what I said before is that he WAS a chucker and it looks like we agree on that(I think) my question is if you agree that he was a chucker because JOB was forcing him(lets say that he was forcing him) why he was still a chucker with Vogel? and were is your evidence other than HOPE that he won't be the chucker he once was?

    2 simple questions Bills and please lets stop with the sarcasm those comments are not bringing anything to the conversation.
    But sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems...*facepalm*

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Must, Win, Internet

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I'm pretty pumped up about Danny returning tonight. This will probably be the shot in the arm that this team needs after suffering 2 losses in a row.

    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin


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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    He was still the primary scoring option under Vogel. The team was still a jump-shooting team because no one was able to get the ball in to Roy, who also wasn't as strong an offensive option at that time. The offense itself also didn't change drastically right away when Frank took over, only the increase in at least TRYING to get it into the paint and the timing (don't necessarily take the quick shot).

    Without going through every single play I have nothing to "prove" anything, since you find statistics unacceptable. We've seen that in the argument we've made over and over that for his utilization and his scoring rate he must have been doing something other than just heaving up shots and turning the ball over. That makes answering your question about "why" I don't think he'll be a chucker impossible to answer to your satisfaction.
    Not true I'm ok with people using stats as long as they don't act like the conversation is over because X stats proves their point, for example Ian Mahinmi was not trash against the Bobcats(his worse game this year) because his +/- was +1 so anybody suggesting that he sucked is wrong because the stats say so.

    So please go ahead and show me got you got
    Last edited by vnzla81; 12-20-2013 at 12:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I hope Lance is in the game for the majority of DG's minutes. His ability to penetrate the lane could definitely set up DG and Scola for their perimeter shots. I'm also going to give DG some time to get back into the flow of things. I won't look at him under a microscope as I know some people will do. Here's to hoping he stays healthy and helps us in our playoff push!

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I have never said that he was just a 3 point shooter what I said before is that he WAS a chucker and it looks like we agree on that(I think) my question is if you agree that he was a chucker because JOB was forcing him(lets say that he was forcing him) why he was still a chucker with Vogel? and were is your evidence other than HOPE that he won't be the chucker he once was?

    2 simple questions Bills and please lets stop with the sarcasm those comments are not bringing anything to the conversation.
    Well, since you are playing this game...I guess we can all do the same.

    Given that we know that Granger's role in the offense and Team has dramatically changed since the last time he was on the floor for any extended period of time....what evidence can you provide that he WILL be a chucker that he once was?

    You can site his past performance....but the problem is that the Team, Coach, offense, defense, his likely role on the Team will ( likely ) dramatically change since the last time he was on the court in any real capacity...which was over the 1.5 seasons ago ( or however you long that you consider him to be out of action ).

    My answer ( for now ) to your original question and my above question is what I posted earlier....we have no clue how Granger will perform, what Vogel will want him to do when he's on the floor and how long ( if ever ) it will take him to get back into whatever "game shape" it will be for him.

    To be clear, I am not saying that the Granger Supporters nor Detractors are right in any of this...but the reality is that NO ONE can answer either question for another month...cuz ( for heavan's sake ) the guy hasn't even stepped onto the court in the regular season to know what he is capable or not capable of doing.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-20-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Soooo soon as Danny, hopefully, gets on the floor tonight whataya say we shut this down

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I'm not going to trash Granger. He played very hard for the Pacers for a long time and was an entertaining player to watch on an otherwise cesspool of a team with a hideous coach. And then he was the best scorer on a Pacer team that won 63% of its games in the 11-12 season. His career has been clouded by some very bad luck in that he came of age with the likes of Murphy/Dunleavy/Ford/Tinsley/Daniels, and then he had to deal with a brutal injury at a relatively young age. He played hard for the Pacers for a long time and deserved better fortune.

    Now, I do think that the harsh realities of professional sports will make it virtually impossible to keep him beyond this season. But just because he isn't a top player for us anymore doesn't mean that I'm going to trash him and act like he didn't used to be really good. He was a damn solid player and I do think that his professionalism and leadership were instrumental for the young guys. Here's to hoping he can come back and carve out a nice role on this team and have a nice finish to his Pacer career. Lord knows we could use a legitimate wing off of the bench.

    Also, DG was a much needed classy personality for the Pacers after all of the unlikable a-holes we had in the mid 2000's.
    This is how I feel every Pacer fan should think about Danny Granger. If they don't, so be it, but I think they're dead wrong and unappreciative.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Fine, at least one of you, probably more than one of you actually, thinks Danny was just some mediocre chucker even at his best. Message received and acknowledged. Can we move on now?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Soooo soon as Danny, hopefully, gets on the floor tonight whataya say we shut this down
    Nah; at least this way it has to stay in one place if the same circular arguments just MUST continue.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Soooo soon as Danny, hopefully, gets on the floor tonight whataya say we shut this down
    Nope...it will stay open....cuz I guarantee you that people will complain that he's not putting up 25ppg after the 1st week of him playing.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I have never said that he was just a 3 point shooter what I said before is that he WAS a chucker and it looks like we agree on that(I think) my question is if you agree that he was a chucker because JOB was forcing him(lets say that he was forcing him) why he was still a chucker with Vogel? and were is your evidence other than HOPE that he won't be the chucker he once was?

    2 simple questions Bills and please lets stop with the sarcasm those comments are not bringing anything to the conversation.

    Maybe because the minute Vogel took over from JOB in 2011 Danny went from previously taking about 19 shots a game to about 14 shots a game? And this on a team where he was the best player to now where he is no longer such...probably meaningless and logic but thought i would at least mention it...

    Dannys a career .384 3 point shooter....but maybe you would rather have guys like Montae Ellis who is a career .329 3 point shooter or JR Smith who is a career .366 career 3 point shooter or Jamal Crawford who is a .350 career 3 point shooter shooting the ball...especially since theyre not chuckers...again, i apologize for the meaningless stats and rationale
    Last edited by cinotimz; 12-20-2013 at 01:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    I predict another dozen pages for this thread before Saturday is over, regardless of how Danny plays tonight

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness 51s
    Vogel confirms this AM, everybody is good to go tonight, including Granger. He wants DG to get into the flow of things before he calls his #

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    It would be nice to limit the word "chucker" to this thread. Of course, this would indeed be the proper thread to use it.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Maybe because the minute Vogel took over from JOB in 2011 Danny went from previously taking about 19 shots a game to about 14 shots a game? And this on a team where he was the best player to now where he is no longer such...probably meaningless and logic but thought i would at least mention it...

    Dannys a career .384 3 point shooter....but maybe you would rather have guys like Montae Ellis who is a career .329 3 point shooter or JR Smith who is a career .366 career 3 point shooter or Jamal Crawford who is a .350 career 3 point shooter shooting the ball...especially since theyre not chuckers...again, i apologize for the meaningless stats and rationale
    You must be talking about the last half of 2011. I find it hard to believe, but you may be right. It was the 11-12 season that really soured me on Danny's game. I hoped he'd take a back seat for our emerging young players and D. West, and he did not. Whether or not it was his fault, I'm not sure. I don't see any reason why he would mind being a role player for us at this point, though.

    As for the players you mention... Monta hate around here probably needs to go with the season he's having. The rest are clearly not as good as a healthy Danny.

  36. #1100
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    Default Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

    Really rooting for Danny to succeed this year.

    His health issues have been so unfortunate, but I for one am really appreciative of what he's done for this team, and who he is as a person.

    I feel he's been a victim of history revision on this board.

    Players have to behave in ways that match their circumstances, and are also influenced by them as well.

    Given the construction of our team a few years ago, and our coach at the time... I find it hard to be too hyper-critical of his playing style back then. The fact that he hung in there with the poor morale, lack of team cohesion, and low overall talent level says a lot about who he is as a person. If anyone thinks that he actually enjoyed having to play that way... well, I think you should reconsider that stance.

    Now he has everything he could ask for in a team, and he's now much less encumbered by the above. I hope he has the time this year to show the world his talent, because it's his single best shot to win it all. As a Pacers fan, I think he deserves that opportunity.

    I won't be disappointed in him though if he falls short, because his injuries were significant and often times are career altering, so I don't have many expectations.
    Last edited by docpaul; 12-20-2013 at 01:51 PM.

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