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Thread: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Danny, Lance, GH, David, or Scola.. I hate the idea of losing any of them. I guess if I had to pick my poison it would be Scola if that was enough to make a difference folowed by GH only if Lance proves he's able to move up to starting pg and he has a long way to go to prove that.
    George Hill is such a better passer than Lance. Hill is a natural PG......
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    I pretty much figured it was a foregone conclusion that Danny is the odd man out regardless of what happens. That copeland signing is going to bite us in the butt.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 11-13-2013 at 02:00 PM.

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  4. #78
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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Once Danny comes back from injury, and he regains his AS form, and becomes 2008 Granger in the flesh, Lance will not be needed. Everybody knows you always keep the 30yr old veteran with injury history over the 23 year old future all-star
    Yep...all of us Granger Supporters will be proven right...because that is exactly what we are all expecting Granger to be when he returns and is healthy...the All-Star version of Granger to return from a 1+ year absense from playing basketball.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-13-2013 at 12:53 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    George Hill is such a better passer than Lance. Hill is a natural PG......
    Lance maybe the better passer than GH and GH isn't a natural PG....but neither is Lance.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Anyway, IMO Larry will do what it takes to re-sign Lance. The only question is what other corners would need to be cut in order to make it work financially.
    That's my new nickname for OJ, Solo or the 2015-2016 Pacers 1st round pick....."Corner"....as in which "Corner" will be "cut" ( as in, being included as sweetner ) to clear Copeland's salary from the books.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    I really want someone to find me the obviously well-known thread where everyone on PD (except for the "really smart" people) has said "keep Granger over Lance no matter how bad Danny is or how good Lance becomes". There have been doubts expressed about how good Lance could be and optimism over how good Danny would be when he came back, but you'd think there was a huge contingent that would throw Lance to the curb if he won MVP so that Danny could get a new max contract to play during garbage time.

    At some point this forum needs to go back to being about expressing opinions, not about abusing anyone whose opinions didn't pan out.
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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    If Danny returns to starting form and Lance doesn't drop off from where he is then it's questionable if we can sign either. I don't just assume that Larry is going to give away future assets to dump another 8-10 mil in salary just to keep Lance or Danny.
    I don't like it....but if it came down to including one of the following as sweetner to clear Copeland's Contract from the book:

    1 ) Whatever 2nd round picks that we have left in the near future
    2 ) OJ
    3 ) 2015-2016 1st round pick
    4 ) Solo

    I would begrudgingly do it if it mean clearing up to $4+ mil in 2014-2015 Salary from the Books. That would ( at worst ) give the Pacers roughly $10 million in Capspace to spend on re-signing either Granger ( not likely unless he came dirt cheap ) or ( more than likely ) Lance before going over the 2014-2015 Luxury Tax.

    I am praying that Bird can work his magic and trade Copeland and a future 2nd round pick for an 2013-2014 Expiring Contract that is attached to a corpse of a Player....but I'm not going to hold my breath. There is a cost for dumping salary...and if that cost means that we significantly improve our chance to re-sign Lance...who I am beginning to think that some Team will OVERPAY to sign him as a UFA ( to the tune of $9+ mil )....then I am willing to accept that cost ( OJ, future 1st or Solo ).
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-13-2013 at 01:09 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    At some point this forum needs to go back to being about expressing opinions, not about abusing anyone whose opinions didn't pan out or is different than theirs.
    Minor addition on my part
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I don't like it....but if it came down to including one of the following as sweetner to clear Copeland's Contract from the book:

    1 ) Whatever 2nd round picks that we have left in the near future
    2 ) OJ
    3 ) 2015-2016 1st round pick
    4 ) Solo

    I would begrudgingly do it if it mean clearing up to $4+ mil in 2014-2015 Salary from the Books. That would ( at worst ) give the Pacers roughly $10 million in Capspace to spend on re-signing either Granger ( not likely unless he came dirt cheap ) or ( more than likely ) Lance before going over the 2014-2015 Luxury Tax.

    I am praying that Bird can work his magic and trade Copeland and a future 2nd round pick for an 2013-2014 Expiring Contract that is attached to a corpse of a Player....but I'm not going to hold my breath. There is a cost for dumping salary...and if that cost means that we significantly improve our chance to re-sign Lance...who I am beginning to think that some Team will OVERPAY to sign him as a UFA ( to the tune of $9+ mil )....then I am willing to accept that cost ( OJ, future 1st or Solo ).
    You know, Sloan is on the roster Cope + Sloan + 2nd rounder for some expiring, would be preferential to trading OJ, the 1st, or Solo.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    We're at 50 mil without PG, Lance or Danny. PG at 18 would put us at 68 leaving 4 spots to fill to hit the minimum of 13 players. Even if we sign 1 mil players for 3 of those spots that puts us at 71 mil without Lance or Danny but that does still include Scola at 4.5 mil. It's insane to consider dumping Scola after what we gave up to get him.
    There are ways to make things happen but no matter what Larry does it hurts next summer.
    It's not 71 next year... I believe it's close to 76. I think it's 75.7 or something.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    I don't get why people assume we would have to include sweetener to get rid of Copeland.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    I don't get why people assume we would have to include sweetener to get rid of Copeland.
    IMO, most teams would perceive him as too expensive of a role player. We've unfortunately painted him as purely a 3point shooter with very average defense.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    IMO, most teams would perceive him as too expensive of a role player. We've unfortunately painted him as purely a 3point shooter with very average defense.
    Teams will remember what he can do, and his contract isn't obscene. I wonder if the Kings would give us Fredette for him. They seem to have lost all faith in him.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    You know, Sloan is on the roster Cope + Sloan + 2nd rounder for some expiring, would be preferential to trading OJ, the 1st, or Solo.
    Of course that would be preferable....but I doubt that such a deal would get it done. There's a price to be paid for such a salary dump.....my guess is that Solo or OJ will be the asking price.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Is it this year or next that we have GS's 2nd rounder? I know we have an extra coming sometime.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    It's not 71 next year... I believe it's close to 76. I think it's 75.7 or something.
    I don't mean the LT, I mean we'll have spent 71 mil in payroll for PG and 3 min. contract players. That would leave us around 4 mil under the LT to sign Lance or Danny. Anything more will require moving out salary.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    I don't get why people assume we would have to include sweetener to get rid of Copeland.
    It's easy to assume this. Under the new CBA...Teams are EXTREMELY reluctant to take on future Salary commitments. If they are willing to take on Copeland, I expect that there will be a price to pay for it. I'm hoping that it won't be anything more than a future 2nd rounder...but I would not be surprised if the asking price starts with a future 1st, OJ or Solo.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kent beckley View Post
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    Is it this year or next that we have GS's 2nd rounder? I know we have an extra coming sometime.
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/draft-pick-debt

    Indiana Pacers: Receives Golden State Warriors 2015 second-round pick via Brandon Rush trade on 12/19/11.
    Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/draft-pick...HyoKJFcQ0vB.99
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  27. #94

    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Is it absolute that the team won't go over the lux tax?

    I mean, what if the team makes more money as a championship contender than the amount of money it would spend going over the tax?

    Sure we've been constantly told the owners won't do it, but we haven't had a championship contender in a while. I would think that at the very least the math would be done.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Is it absolute that the team won't go over the lux tax?

    I mean, what if the team makes more money as a championship contender than the amount of money it would spend going over the tax?

    Sure we've been constantly told the owners won't do it, but we haven't had a championship contender in a while. I would think that at the very least the math would be done.
    I've posted this in the past but the new cba actually makes it less costly to go over the LT by less then 5 mil then the old cba did. After 5 mil over it becomes increasingly more costly though. The reason is that teams over the LT still get their share of the LT money from the league paid to them now while under the old cba they not only had to pay the LT but they also lost that income. This doesn't mean that Herb will want to pay a 7.5 mil tax to have the right to pay another 5 mil in payroll but I'd hope he'll consider it if it means keeping a championship team together.

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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Is it absolute that the team won't go over the lux tax?

    I mean, what if the team makes more money as a championship contender than the amount of money it would spend going over the tax?

    Sure we've been constantly told the owners won't do it, but we haven't had a championship contender in a while. I would think that at the very least the math would be done.
    I don't know, but the Pacers have been adamant to this point that no LT. So until proven otherwise, I think we have to assume they won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I've posted this in the past but the new cba actually makes it less costly to go over the LT by less then 5 mil then the old cba did. After 5 mil over it becomes increasingly more costly though. The reason is that teams over the LT still get their share of the LT money from the league paid to them now while under the old cba they not only had to pay the LT but they also lost that income. This doesn't mean that Herb will want to pay a 7.5 mil tax to have the right to pay another 5 mil in payroll but I'd hope he'll consider it if it means keeping a championship team together.
    While true you also have to take into consideration that, from my memory at least, Herb was one of the biggest proponents for moving towards something that is more of a "hard cap". He might not want to go over the LT just out of principle.

  30. #97

    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    any way to keep both lance and danny?
    no, i don't see that as a possibility at all.
    most logical choice in my eyes is to let danny walk regardless. his age and health do not work as much in our favor as it does with lance.

  31. #98
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Is it absolute that the team won't go over the lux tax?

    I mean, what if the team makes more money as a championship contender than the amount of money it would spend going over the tax?

    Sure we've been constantly told the owners won't do it, but we haven't had a championship contender in a while. I would think that at the very least the math would be done.
    Larry Bird has said repeatedly that the team won't go over the tax. Some people hear an implied "unless we win a championship" but personally I'll wait for Bird or Simon to actually say it.

    The math doesn't favor the Pacers making much more money as a contender. League-wide revenue is evenly split among the 30 NBA teams, e.g. national TV contract, merchandise from NBA store, etc which is normally a good thing for the Pacers, but it does mean that their share won't rise even if they become more popular. The only avenue for increased revenue is through the local market, and no matter how popular the Pacers become, the local market just can't compare with the likes of NY or LA. I'm sure the local revenue will see a boost, but remember that Simon previously said that the Pacers were barely profitable even during their heyday in the 90s.

  32. #99
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I've posted this in the past but the new cba actually makes it less costly to go over the LT by less then 5 mil then the old cba did. After 5 mil over it becomes increasingly more costly though. The reason is that teams over the LT still get their share of the LT money from the league paid to them now while under the old cba they not only had to pay the LT but they also lost that income. This doesn't mean that Herb will want to pay a 7.5 mil tax to have the right to pay another 5 mil in payroll but I'd hope he'll consider it if it means keeping a championship team together.
    I don't think that's correct. In the old CBA, going over the tax by $3m will cost $3m - a dollar for dollar tax. Now, going over by $3m will cost $4.5m - a 1.5x rate. Going over by $5m brings up the rate to 1.75x, and so on.

    The provision you refer to about tax teams losing LT money was also present in the old CBA. And actually that's not the way it's worded. See here:

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q22

    Up to 50% of the tax money may be given to non-taxpaying teams. Note that there is no requirement that any of the tax money be distributed to teams in this manner.

    Any tax money not distributed to teams will be used for "league purposes." In other words, at least 50% of the tax revenue will be used for league purposes each season.
    So at most half the LT money is distributed to non-tax teams. This doesn't mean tax teams get a slice of the rest though. "League purposes" means anything from global promotion to propping up the D-league.

    What you're thinking about may be revenue sharing, which is new and a different animal from LT. It's not part of the CBA though, so we don't know much about it. For all we know, there's an informal (or formal) agreement among the owners that revenue sharing recipients not go over the tax. I mean, if you're NY or LA, would you be happy cutting a revenue sharing check to OKC or IND just so those teams can go over the tax?

  33. #100

    Default Re: Any conceivable way we bring back both Lance and Danny ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    The irony is that Bird told Danny he would build a good team around him, but he ended up doing such a great job that it's going to be hard to find room for Danny beyond this season.

    Professional sports can be a harsh business.
    That's not irony, it just sucks. Obviously I'm happy the Pacers being a legit contender, but I can't help but feel bad for Danny. Not like he pulled a Jay Williams or Monta Ellis or whomever else and got himself hurt by being a dumbass, his body's just betrayed him. He's started to get kinda defensive in interviews about his health and "place on the team," and who can blame him? Him and Dale Davis, off the top of my head, are the only guys I'd have mixed feelings about having a great game against the Pacers.

    I don't think there's a chance in hell Danny's a Pacer past next year, and that sucks. But what sucks more is that we've become elite w/o him (and there is ZERO causation there) and that's what a lot of people are going to remember that about him as a Pacer now that they're paying attention again for the first time in a decade.

    So there's obviously only one way to end Danny's time here, him and Herb hoisting the O'Brien at BLF this summer and giving him a big gaudy ring whenever he comes here next season.

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