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Thread: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

  1. #51
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Of course if you're staring at your expiration date on the earth and still healthy enough to enjoy life, is there any reason you'd like to have a lump sum of money right up front or in a couple of huge payments versus continuing the normal payouts?

    Add in if there is some legal challenge available to the NBA either now or in the future that at least has a chance of success, how would that affect your thought process?

    And lastly, if there is an investment you'd like to make while you can still see it thru and this huge lump sum help makes it happen, then wouldn't you want to consider the offer?

    Of course there's always the saying... a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Would the lump sum offer be the bird in the hand or would the continuing payments be the bird in the hand?

    The hurdle as I see it is that this deal has been so blatantly one-sided that it's hard to imagine they've not bankrolled so much money from it that a buyout just wouldn't interest them. How much more could they need? Does the money even mean anything to them at this point other than continuing on for their family? But depending on the weight the above things might be given, and maybe they decide they've milked the golden goose enough, so maybe there is a number that works.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  2. #52
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    How much more could they need?
    More. This is like telling guys to take a paycut just because it helps our cap situation, but even that doesn't even compare. There's not a person alive that isn't affiliated with one of the merger teams that would tell them to settle. The only prayer is that the language of the contract ends with them. If the "perpetuity" is the true definition of the word and it extends for generations it's the greatest contract of all time. And even as a Pacers fan they'd be monumentally stupid to settle. It's just going to keep growing and growing.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    seven between the two of them
    This may be the best hope for the NBA. With that many off-springs, it is more likely there may be divisions of interest between them.

    A possible family feud between those who want to keep receiving a part of the yearly payments vs. those who need a larger chunk of money for a one-time huge purchase/investment.

    Remember that when the seven off-spring divide up the pie that their two fathers had been getting, each piece of that pie gets smaller.

  4. #54
    Member rabid's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    So how old are these guys? LOL.

  5. #55
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by rabid View Post
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    So how old are these guys? LOL.
    68 and 74, something like taht

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  7. #56

    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    One thing to remember is that the the deal isn't between the Silna's and the NBA. It's between the Silna's and the four former ABA teams. So the deal runs forever but only as long as those 4 ABA teams continue to exist.

    So what happens when the amount of money going to the Silnas grows so large that the ABA teams are at a competitive disadvantage? For example, the Pacers are only losing $4.75M this year. But what happens if that amount grows to $15M? Could it ever get to a situation where the 4 ABA teams are getting so much less than the other teams that they can't compete?

    And if that happens, those teams might not be able to be sold. Who would buy a team that is at a huge financial competitive disadvantage when you could just buy a new franchise (but in a different city)?

    And if the ABA teams can't be sold then they might eventually have to fold. At what point do the Silnas decide that the golden goose could die if they don't cut a deal? That day could come and the Silnas may want to take care of it before their kids have to.

  8. #57

    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    If the Pacers share ever went to 15 million thpugh they would still net 90 million.

  9. #58
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    More. This is like telling guys to take a paycut just because it helps our cap situation, but even that doesn't even compare. There's not a person alive that isn't affiliated with one of the merger teams that would tell them to settle. The only prayer is that the language of the contract ends with them. If the "perpetuity" is the true definition of the word and it extends for generations it's the greatest contract of all time. And even as a Pacers fan they'd be monumentally stupid to settle. It's just going to keep growing and growing.

    What I meant was how much more of a deal could they need than what they already have coming in and have bankrolled. They've made so much that it's hard to imagine there's a deal that they'd 'need' to take.

    The lump sum just might not hold that much 'excitement' for them at this point because they've already collected so much.

    Perpetuity is the question mark and wildcard...

    IOW.... we agree....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  10. #59

    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Something that nobody has mentioned that someone should probably consider is that the tv money may not continue growing in perpetuity. At some point it might level off or even decline. We're certainly still on the rise at this time but there's no guarantee it will always be this way.

    Also someone said there is no way they should ever settle. That's not true. There is certainly a threshold at which they should. The problem is that nobody knows for sure what that is because you have to make some assumptions that may or may not come to fruition.

    I will see that it seems unlikely to me that the NBA would offer an amount that would tempt them to make a deal as things stand right now. With the rights to sporting events going for all-time highs, it would probably be the worst timing for the NBA to settle. That's why it seems odd that this is making news right now. What could they be offering that would even be tempting?

  11. #60

    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I understand all of that, still doesn't mean it wasn't greedy. The NBA is greedy too, but at least they are trying to earn their money through providing something to people. Those two are just sitting pretty on their couches making more in a decade than everyone on this board will likely make in their lifetimes combined. The only way that isn't greed is if they are giving away the vast majority of it away to the needy.
    If getting the most out of selling something you rightfully own is considered greedy, especially selling it to people as rich or richer than you, then every single person on this planet is greedy.

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  13. #61

    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    This is a complete guess but maybe the reason why the NBA is trying to settle now is 1 - because one of the Silnas brothers is pretty old, and 2- their current tv deal ends in 2 seasons.

    if there's even a chance that the contract they signed allows for some reversion of their interest back to the four ex-ABA teams upon their death, then the lump sum needed to buy them out might not be that high. It might be cheaper for the NBA now to try to argue that the deal might end when they die so they might as well take the 200 mil now and better plan your estate - especially if the NBA doesn't want to pay some huge increase when they sign a new TV deal, and/or risk losing to the Silnas kids in court and have a court actually say the deal lasts forever.

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  15. #62

    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    The ABA History channel on YouTube just posted the ESPN 30 for 30 movie "Free Spirits". Just in case anyone missed it. It's pretty good. And they talk about this deal.


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  17. #63
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperZ View Post
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    If getting the most out of selling something you rightfully own is considered greedy, especially selling it to people as rich or richer than you, then every single person on this planet is greedy.
    I had 4 posts not go through yesterday, but in short ill just say I whole heartily agree.

    Also. Every person who ever won a lottery is greedy by that logic as well.

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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperZ View Post
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    If getting the most out of selling something you rightfully own is considered greedy, especially selling it to people as rich or richer than you, then every single person on this planet is greedy.
    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I had 4 posts not go through yesterday, but in short ill just say I whole heartily agree.

    Also. Every person who ever won a lottery is greedy by that logic as well.
    Not sure how this equates to winning the lottery.

    I don't see how this deal is not just greed. It isn't just selling the team. It is holding 4 teams hostage until they got the most lopsided deal ever. By the way, yes most people are greedy.

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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    I do not get how you can day they are holding anyone hostage.

    Did they put a gun to the NBA's head? Was the NBA forced to take the deal? Or did they just make a tisky (but smart) business decision. No greed in that in my eyes....

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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    As for how it relates. Lottery winners aren't providing something to people. They are just sitting on their couches for 26 plus years and collecting a check, right?

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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I do not get how you can day they are holding anyone hostage.

    Did they put a gun to the NBA's head? Was the NBA forced to take the deal? Or did they just make a tisky (but smart) business decision. No greed in that in my eyes....
    Back when the deal was being negotiated yes they did. It was either get this deal, get a team, or no merger and all 6 ABA teams dissolve.

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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Back when the deal was being negotiated yes they did. It was either get this deal, get a team, or no merger and all 6 ABA teams dissolve.
    Pretty sure they wanted a team and the NBA said no. Hence they negotiated this deal and the NBA was perfectly content with it for more than a decade. You don't get to feel like you fleeced the other party for 15+ years then claim you were held hostage.

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  24. #69
    Formerly PacerFanInAZ Cactus Jax's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    As was said in that 30 for 30 piece, they thought the offer of tv revenue was laughable at the time from the NBA. These guys were wise beyond their years getting that deal.

    It's pretty much impossible now to reach a reasonable compromise especially w/ a new deal coming up soon, they want to rid themselves of these dudes if possible.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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  26. #70
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Jax View Post
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    As was said in that 30 for 30 piece, they thought the offer of tv revenue was laughable at the time from the NBA. These guys were wise beyond their years getting that deal.

    It's pretty much impossible now to reach a reasonable compromise especially w/ a new deal coming up soon, they want to rid themselves of these dudes if possible.
    right, these dudes were ABA owners. the majority of those games didn't even get filmed, let alone broadcasted. we forgetting that Finals games well past the merger were on tape delay and TV money was nothing compared to gate revenue, which is at a laughable ratio now? if ANYONE thought TV revenue would get as crazy as it has that compromise is never offered. calling these dudes greedy is nuts. they had a financially sound franchise, which was rare for the ABA, that the NBA didn't want, good for them for lucking out in a major way.

    that said, c'mon guys, settle.

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  28. #71
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    Default Re: NBA negotiating with the Silnas to end the Spirits of St. Louis deal

    I think Stern/Silver will try to avoid another Seattle situation at all costs. That whole deal seems to have left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Based on that assumption, I doubt any teams relocates anytime soon. And the next city in line to get a franchise would be Seattle. I don't see the Silnas settling this Spirits deal for any monetary value. The only way I could see them accepting a deal is if they are granted a franchise. I could see them negotiating a deal to where if/when Seattle gets their team, St. Louis gets a team as well. It wouldn't make much sense for the league to have an odd number of teams. This would kill two birds with one stone.
    Last edited by Phree Refill; 11-14-2013 at 12:17 PM.

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