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Thread: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't look at it really as defending Trent, but rather placing all the blame on a crappy offensive line. Truth be told, I'm a big Vick Ballard fan.
    I was beyond stoked for the Ballard/Bradshaw combo before the season. I still can't believe that neither of them got beyond Game 3 of the season.

    This is why I'm not getting overly upset about the loss to the Rams. This team has done of a hell of a job staying at the top of the division despite all of the injuries they've been through. Now I'll start to get a bit worried and upset if we lose bad in Tennessee on Thursday, but for now I'll try to forget about this Rams game.

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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    If I'm a Titans fan, I'm ****** as **** that my team lost to the Jaguars when simply winning would have made Thursday night's game a battle for first in the division.

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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I was beyond stoked for the Ballard/Bradshaw combo before the season.
    Me too. I'm hoping the future is Ballard/Richardson. I like Brown, on occasions, but his lack of pass protection and his little frame just isn't a good fit IMHO. Bradshaw's injury history is just too much.
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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Me too. I'm hoping the future is Ballard/Richardson. I like Brown, on occasions, but his lack of pass protection and his little frame just isn't a good fit IMHO. Bradshaw's injury history is just too much.
    Yeah, I'm guessing Bradshaw's brief time in a Colts jersey is over.

    I actually think Donald Brown has been halfway decent this year. He's always been better suited as a change of pace back.

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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Me too. I'm hoping the future is Ballard/Richardson. I like Brown, on occasions, but his lack of pass protection and his little frame just isn't a good fit IMHO. Bradshaw's injury history is just too much.

    Yeah I was hoping we could just get one solid year out of Bradshaw. Even with his injury history, he still played in 14 games last year and got 1000 yards. It would have been nice to get one solid year because he's just the perfect type of pro to have on your team. I was hoping that the game winning Super Bowl touchdown at Lucas would be some nice karma for him as a Colt. But at this point, we have to go in another direction. The guy is clearly too risky to bring back. Shame he got hurt, because that performance against San Francisco was the best Colt rushing performance since Addai at the beginning of his career.

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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Me too. I'm hoping the future is Ballard/Richardson. I like Brown, on occasions, but his lack of pass protection and his little frame just isn't a good fit IMHO.
    Yeah but when used you're going to run cause you should know how bad he is at pass protection. In the case of Luck using an audible and switching to a pass play while Brown is in there, I 'd take a wasted timeout over him trying to protect Andrew

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    On Bradshaw, I was royally pissed off even more than Ballard getting injured. Ahmad is a grinder and I firmly believe he would have been more of help than Richardson is now behind this line.

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    So, imo, there are workhorse backs and there are change-of-pace backs.

    We had 4 viable backs on this roster this season. Bradshaw and TRich, are what I consider workhorse backs. Ballard and DBrown are what I consider off-speed, or change-of-pace backs.

    3 of these backs I had durability questions about. Bradshaw is up there in age, and I loved the guy even before he came here, but I feared he wouldn't last the season. Ballard and Brown aren't the most "built" backs, and I questioned if they'd stand up to the punishment. Brown has a history of durability questions.

    So far, of those three, only Brown has survived. In his defense, Brown has looked his best this year than ever, and I applaud him for that

    He's still best suited as an off-speed back. The guy who stick in and surprise defenses with a quick-strike, big play. Because of that, he's going to have low usage and high yardage.

    TRich is the one guy that I consider to be a true workhorse back, and I don't have durability questions for him. I also look at the overall skillsets of each back, and there's no question to me that of all those backs, TRich has the best skillset.

    I think that he's a victim of circumstance. I think everyone considers his 24 yards a game and no touchdowns to be the norm for him, and it's not. We have to always keep in mind context. His 25/yards a game for us this year is NOT his norm. Last year he was damn near a 1000-yard back. He had 1300 yards of offense and 12 touchdowns. I think all of you have forgotten that. I think a lot of folks see his terrible production this year as his "norm".

    It's not his norm. Not only that but the only other back we have right now has very similar (and poor) stats. That's when you have to start looking at other determinants. I mean I'll be the first to admit DBrown is running better right now than I can ever remember him doing --- and his stats still suck.

    Immediately, I look elsewhere to see what the problem is. First logical place is to observe the line. Yep --- there it is. These guys suck. It's why DBrown isn't getting the production he should be getting... it's why TRich is getting stuffed... it's why Luck is suffering in the pass.

    It's the line. That's my entire stance.

    This is what I"m basically reading from a lot of comments on here: "Yea, the line is bad, but at some point in time, it's just TRich's fault.", and then inexplicably praise DBrown's production while railing on TRich for putting up similar production in an impossible situation for either back.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    This is what I"m basically reading from a lot of comments on here: "Yea, the line is bad, but at some point in time, it's just TRich's fault.", and then inexplicably praise DBrown's production while railing on TRich for putting up similar production in an impossible situation for either back.
    We knew Donald Brown wasn't lead back material. His production is to be expected. He's a sunk cost at this point. Richardson, we paid a high price for, so we expect something better out of him. And I don't think it's an impossible situation for running backs. I think the line is bad, but not nearly as catastrophic as you are making it out to be.

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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    So we traded what will likely be a ~25th pick for TRich, and everyone isn't okay with that. But drafting DBrown with the 27th pick makes sense. What hypocrisy is this? That's what these backs' values are to us, guys. One was a late 20s pick, and the other was the same.

    Bradshaw did look good against San Fran -- because he had opportunities. This line *was* playing better at the beginning of the season and actually had a good game against the 9ers. We pushed them all over the place. We were actually living up to our "power game" label. Overall in the first few games, they weren't amazing, but they were a serviceable line on the up-and-up from last year, and Bradshaw simply took what they gave him, which was some holes. Since that game, it's been a *rapid* decline. The line went from so-so to absolutely terrible. I'm not the only one seeing it, it's finally getting mention in articles I've been reading and announcers have been slowly accepting it. The line went to **** over a month ago. It is what is going to be our downfall this year if it isn't addressed. If we *do* address it, we're back on track as a SB contender.

    So to address the inevitable "why get a RB when your line sucks" comment --- when we acquired TRich, our line wasn't this big of an issue. You guys have to remember this. The line at the time had been doing alright. Besides... you need more help than 1 draft pick to fix this line. Even if we kept that pick, our line isn't fixed. Again... where is the logic in saying "let's not go get a really special back?" And he is a special back. It's been an outright travesty that this line hasn't been able to give him a single nice running opportunity yet. Absolutely unbelievable to think about. But he hasn't. Every play I've watched, he has absolutely nowhere to go. Not a single time did I see a play develop and think "Oh, here it is he's got a great hole, let's see what happens." Because there hasn't been a great hole. The only great hole I see is our offensive line. and let's not forget that TRich was acquired mid-season, which is almost unheard of. He had almost no time to get acclimated to this offense, which most of you have conveniently brushed off. He looks like he's making sense of it now, but it doesn't matter because our line has been so damn terrible, we can't even get 1 second into our play before the entire thing is blown up.

    And I'll tell you this --- Luck didn't seem as "off" to me as he did "skittish". He's been looking more and more skittish the last few weeks. I hate to see this happen. But our line is starting to get in Luck's head. His throws were sailing and he's not stepping into it cleanly or releasing cleanly, and it appears to me that it's because he's thinking too much of the pocket and pressure. This line HAS to be addressed, or we're gonna have bigger issues on our hands than poor execution. He's getting hit like crazy. His throws are putting receivers in bad positions.

    And why Pep isn't having Luck roll out is beyond me. That would be the single most logical solution to a ****** line situation.... roll-out and let Luck do some magic on the run.
    None of us are saying that Donald Brown was a great pick. But he was drafted almost 5 years ago and has been sunk cost for a long time. T-Rich OTOH was traded for a first rounder that hasn't been used yet, so people are naturally going to analyze him in that context. I agree that the line has gotten worse as the year has gone on, but it's not like T-Rich was particularly good at the beginning when the line wasn't quite as bad as it is now. I'm trying to maintain an open mind here and I understand that the book has yet to be written, but I just haven't seen any "making something out of nothing" skills out of him. I have a very very hard time believing that Bradshaw would have such terrible stats, but we'll never know.

    Agree with you about Pep. Two things drove me nuts about Pep on Sunday:

    1) Pulling TY Hilton for David Reed one too many times.

    2) Not rolling Luck out.

    Luck's definitely getting more skittish, I agree. The Wayne injury just makes things much much worse. Now he knows he doesn't have the old HOFer who can immediately bail him out of a sticky situation. We are all big on TY, but he just doesn't yet have the savvy ability to make those quick vet plays to get his QB out of a jam.

  10. #85

    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    I would dispute that Brown's stats are bad. There are two runningbacks in the NFL that have at least 10 carries on the season who have a higher YPC than Brown. Vereen with 14 carries and a 7.2 average, and Ellington with 54 carries and a 7.2 average. That's it that's higher than Brown's 5.9. As I'll say later, that doesn't mean Brown has been an overall amazing RB because they have used him as a specialist, but a very good specialist is a useful RB.

    Would Brown's average come down dramatically if he had more carries? Absolutely. But for him to match Richardson, his next 47 carries would have to produce 7 yards total.

    That doesn't mean I'm putting all the blame on Richardson or saying that Brown is amazing. Neither is true. And you do bring up good points that they are different kinds of backs, Richardson will likely put up less YPC but more TD's, and Brown is in a role that will enhance his YPC a little bit. All of this is true. It just doesn't reconcile the vast gulf in their efficiency. That's especially true because the argument is not that Richardson is as good as Brown, the contention is that he is a special talent and is a lot better.

    It's not like Brown got his advantage because of big plays either. Brown has 2 runs of 20+ yards all season. Take those out and he's still at 4.33 Y/G to Richardson's 3.0. Trent has 2 TD's rushing while Brown has 1 rushing, 1 receiving. Trent has fumbled once (actually twice, but the other one went out of bounds) while Brown hasn't fumbled. Brown has more catches, although Richardson has the larger yards per catch. Pass blocking has still been Richardson's, although Brown is no longer as bad as his reputation and Richardson is probably not as good as his. It's hard to say that Brown hasn't been the better back this year even accounting for usage.

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Brown gets some of his runs out of shotgun formations or other passing down situations. During that Colts/Jags game Brown had a big run on 3rd and long, because the defense was expecting the pass and set up for it. Brown also gets plays called where he gets to run out on the edge.

    Between Pep's playcalling and the lines inability to get any kind of push, it really handcuffs Trent. The plays he gets called for him seems like he's either running through gap A or B on left or gap A or B on the right. When your center/guard can't get a good push on the defensive tackle and one can't get free to go to the second level, it really shuts down any possibility of getting positive yards.
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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    We knew Donald Brown wasn't lead back material. His production is to be expected. He's a sunk cost at this point. Richardson, we paid a high price for, so we expect something better out of him. And I don't think it's an impossible situation for running backs. I think the line is bad, but not nearly as catastrophic as you are making it out to be.
    The line is bad and close to catastrophic lately but let's not pretend we are the only one who face this problem.

    BTW, Rich has been used out of passing formations lately starting from the Denver game IIRC.

  13. #88
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    Default Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

    Not as often, though.

    And whether or not other teams have bad lines doesn't diminish the fact that we have a bad line. I'd also argue that I haven't seen another line in this league performing as badly as ours has in the past month.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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