Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 74 of 74

Thread: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

  1. #51
    Member aamcguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Lafayette
    Age
    23
    Posts
    2,499

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I meant match in the non-CBA sense of the word. I think if we match other team's offers, Lance will decide to stay with us. But with our promise to not touch the luxury tax, matching the offers Lance gets might be tough.

    The difference between Lance and everyone else on that list is that he shoots, defends, rebounds, passes, has size and can dribble. The guys on your list all have holes in their game that keeps them from getting to that next level of 10-12 million. I'm not so bullish that Lance is at that level and I think he's closer to his peak now than people on this board want to admit. But if you're a GM who sees Lance as a second tier star who can be stolen away without going through restricted free agency, why wouldn't you make a big offer?
    He can do everything, but he really has no elite skill. He isn't an elite scorer, he's not an elite distributor, he needs a lot of coaching before you could run an offense through him, and he's not an elite defender.

    There's only 8 shooting guards making more than the players I listed.

    Tyreke
    Ben Gordon
    James Harden
    Eric Gordon
    Dwyane Wade
    Joe Johnson
    Kobe Bryant
    Andre Iguodala

    Every player on that list had at least one season where they averaged 20ppg but James Harden and Andre Igudola(19.9 ppg) before signing their contract. Iguodala is also a jack-of-all-trades, but he is just much better than Lance. Lance is clearly better than Ben Gordon and has a similar game to Tyreke, but Tyreke is still a more polished scorer. Unless you're an elite scorer, teams would rather dole out their big contracts to do it all small forwards, big men, or point guards.
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to aamcguy For This Useful Post:


  3. #52
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,182

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Lance isn't worth more than the MLE in my opinion. Yes he's having a great 5 games, but let's see people's opinions during Jan. Heck, if it took 5 games, I could have had a chance at the Pacers roster.
    I think based on last year regular season, he was easily going to get a better than MLE offer. The playoffs and the hot start this season have really raised his profile though. As KTT says, you have to look at other teams' perspective. If you're hunting for a young (23 only!), possible breakout star who can be reasonably had, is there a better candidate than Lance?

    $8m+ is the lowest offer I can imagine at the moment.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  5. #53
    Bring Back Bender bballpacen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,025

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Remember that the penalty for going over the LT does not apply to the end of that season. So it is possible that we go into LT territory to sign Lance and or DG and then make a deal or two during the season to get back below the LT.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bballpacen For This Useful Post:


  7. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    7,922

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    If Lance keeps up his play I could see a GM giving him 10 million on the basis that he will keep improving. Kind of like how Paul got his max contract based on the assumption he would be worth the max by next season.

  8. #55
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,182

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance wants 5 yr Max Contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's actually REALLY possible we go into next year without Lance OR Danny.
    Ironically perhaps, the best chance that we'll re-sign Danny is if the bidding on Lance gets out of hand.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  10. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    7,922

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance wants 5 yr Max Contract

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ironically perhaps, the best chance that we'll re-sign Danny is if the bidding on Lance gets out of hand.
    Yup, I would say the longer Lance plays like this the greater the odds we keep Granger instead of Lance simply because Lance will price himself out of range.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Eleazar For This Useful Post:


  12. #57
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Garrett, IN
    Posts
    9,033
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance wants 5 yr Max Contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's actually REALLY possible we go into next year without Lance OR Danny.
    I think it is still a possibility that we go into this year without Danny. Honestly if we can afford Lance, this decision is a no brainer. Lance is the easy choice.

  13. #58
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,900

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think based on last year regular season, he was easily going to get a better than MLE offer. The playoffs and the hot start this season have really raised his profile though. As KTT says, you have to look at other teams' perspective. If you're hunting for a young (23 only!), possible breakout star who can be reasonably had, is there a better candidate than Lance?

    $8m+ is the lowest offer I can imagine at the moment.
    That I wouldn't agree with. Based on his performance last year I think getting a full MLE offer would be pushing it and I couldn't see any team making an offer above that. If he keeps the pace this year that he has for the first 5 games then that's out the window.
    Right now we won't even be able to give a full MLE offer and still be under the LT. once we fill our roster to 13 players. Larry can still sign Lance first then move some payroll out later in the summer but the problem with that is that teams will know we're over the LT and desperate to dump salary so they'll be able to hold us hostage and we either won't get value for who we move or we'll have to give away assets to move someone like Copeland or Ian.

  14. #59
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,445

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    I think it is going to be based on the impression of whether he is actually attractive to another team. If he can start acting and looking like he is in control when he plays, that's probably more valuable to his future contract even than maintaining his current level. The thought process will be "can our coach keep him inside the team's game" - if that answer is "yes", the bidding will be fierce.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  15. #60
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Age
    28
    Posts
    17,383

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Here's an interesting 'Would You Rather...?' for the off-season:
    Start C.J. Watson at PG and Lance Stephenson at SG or Start George Hill at PG and Orlando Johnson at SG

    The point being, what was originally a difficult decision between Lance and Danny has now become an even tougher choice: Do we rearrange the roster to keep Stephenson in Indiana? If so, George Hill at $8 million per year might be a luxury we can no longer afford. If we agree that he's the 5th best starter (and we might not agree on that), can we really afford to pay our 5th best player that much and still fill out the bench with capable producers?

    I'm not saying we should or shouldn't unload George Hill. In fact, I'm not saying much of anything. It's way too early in the season to make these decisions. However, with Lance and PG initiating so much of the offense, couldn't we get away with a Mario Chalmers-type at the point guard position? I think George Hill is a good fit for this team, both on the court and off, but I still wonder if that contract we gave him might come back to bite us.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to LoneGranger33 For This Useful Post:


  17. #61
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,182

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here's an interesting 'Would You Rather...?' for the off-season:
    Start C.J. Watson at PG and Lance Stephenson at SG or Start George Hill at PG and Orlando Johnson at SG

    The point being, what was originally a difficult decision between Lance and Danny has now become an even tougher choice: Do we rearrange the roster to keep Stephenson in Indiana? If so, George Hill at $8 million per year might be a luxury we can no longer afford. If we agree that he's the 5th best starter (and we might not agree on that), can we really afford to pay our 5th best player that much and still fill out the bench with capable producers?

    I'm not saying we should or shouldn't unload George Hill. In fact, I'm not saying much of anything. It's way too early in the season to make these decisions. However, with Lance and PG initiating so much of the offense, couldn't we get away with a Mario Chalmers-type at the point guard position? I think George Hill is a good fit for this team, both on the court and off, but I still wonder if that contract we gave him might come back to bite us.
    I've posted before that my first preference is to move one of the bench pieces if we needed to free up money. One (or more) of Copeland/Scola/Mahinmi would do the trick.

    Regardless, I don't think Hill's contract will ever be a burden, for the simple reason that I think it will be easy to trade him if we have to. I even know the perfect destination for him - Houston. They'd just love someone like Hill next to Harden.

    If we're ever to regret a contract we've given, it's probably West's. Look, I love West's contributions as much as the next guy, but his contract isn't going to be easy to move at all, should we have dire need. His contract IMO is the least attractive among the ones that we've given out recently.

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  19. #62
    THE WITCH IS DEAD!!! Coopdog23's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Da Bank
    Posts
    2,889

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    The thing is who means more to the team: Lance or Danny?
    "We want Miami"

  20. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Age
    28
    Posts
    17,383

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've posted before that my first preference is to move one of the bench pieces if we needed to free up money. One (or more) of Copeland/Scola/Mahinmi would do the trick.

    Regardless, I don't think Hill's contract will ever be a burden, for the simple reason that I think it will be easy to trade him if we have to. I even know the perfect destination for him - Houston. They'd just love someone like Hill next to Harden.

    If we're ever to regret a contract we've given, it's probably West's. Look, I love West's contributions as much as the next guy, but his contract isn't going to be easy to move at all, should we have dire need. His contract IMO is the least attractive among the ones that we've given out recently.
    As far as David West's contract is concerned, we are in complete agreement. Wrong side of thirty, a lot of miles in the tank, only attractive to an immediate contender.

    To your first point, that's where I would begin cutting costs too. I think we need Mahinmi to act as our poor man's Hibbert when the big fella is resting. Our defensive schemes call for a rim protector, so I wouldn't let him go. Copeland hasn't had a chance to prove his worth, so he's gotta be the first one out the door. Scola is another luxury backup we probably can't afford, but at $4.5 million the price seems reasonable. Generally speaking, it's better to lose bench guys than starters.

    My concern is that we'll need to pay Lance in the $9-12 million range for his services. I don't know much about our cap situation, but we might need to slim down our budget even further than previously expected (I saw $6-8 million range discussed prior to the season starting). If we start cutting multiple players from the bench, we'll have the same depth troubles we encountered last year. For what he gives us - and this is less an indictment of his talent than a reflection of his place in the pecking order - I view George Hill as a bit of a luxury. He fits, but he's not essential. If we have to cut more salary, I'd look to unload George Hill before decimating the bench.

    Also, I have my doubts about his trade value. I hope it is as easy to trade him as you believe it to be, but I haven't liked that contract from Day 1. Thankfully, I'm not running the other 29 teams. He's not a bad player by any stretch, but he might not fit as well in other team's offenses as he does in ours. And with four years and $32 million left, you have to commit to the guy if you trade for him.

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to LoneGranger33 For This Useful Post:


  22. #64
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,445

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here's an interesting 'Would You Rather...?' for the off-season:
    Start C.J. Watson at PG and Lance Stephenson at SG or Start George Hill at PG and Orlando Johnson at SG

    The point being, what was originally a difficult decision between Lance and Danny has now become an even tougher choice: Do we rearrange the roster to keep Stephenson in Indiana? If so, George Hill at $8 million per year might be a luxury we can no longer afford. If we agree that he's the 5th best starter (and we might not agree on that), can we really afford to pay our 5th best player that much and still fill out the bench with capable producers?

    I'm not saying we should or shouldn't unload George Hill. In fact, I'm not saying much of anything. It's way too early in the season to make these decisions. However, with Lance and PG initiating so much of the offense, couldn't we get away with a Mario Chalmers-type at the point guard position? I think George Hill is a good fit for this team, both on the court and off, but I still wonder if that contract we gave him might come back to bite us.
    I had a big post done and then realized - are you talking about the lineup for NEXT season (2014-2015)?
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  23. #65
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    7,922

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The thing is who means more to the team: Lance or Danny?
    Depends completely on how Danny returns. If he returns to anything close to what he was before (which I think is the most likely case) it is neutral, if he is only a spot up shooter with some post ability it is Lance. I think the real question though is, is paying either of them over $8 million worth it for this team?

  24. #66
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    30,656

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    I mean I think the ideal world is Lance ends up with an Afflalo style contract, but I think he probably comes in higher and I think the Pacers pay it. I don't know Bird will figure it out.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  25. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  26. #67
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,182

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I had a big post done and then realized - are you talking about the lineup for NEXT season (2014-2015)?
    Sure why not... it's never too early to stoke the fires of the next great PD debate

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    My concern is that we'll need to pay Lance in the $9-12 million range for his services. I don't know much about our cap situation, but we might need to slim down our budget even further than previously expected (I saw $6-8 million range discussed prior to the season starting).
    There's been a couple of salary threads. From what we currently know, I think we can offer Lance up to roughly $10m per if we manage to move Copeland, without going over the tax. And frankly I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that amount for Lance.

    As to West, well, I think if the Pacers were given the chance to swap him for someone like Millsap ($9.5m) or Ilyasova ($8m), they'd have to consider it from the age and financials standpoint. Those 2 guys could go a fair bit in replicating West's on-court contributions, though probably not West's leadership and toughness. OTOH, West isn't going to be around forever, so leadership of the team has to pass to younger guys like George at some point. In any case, it's a problem for next season.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to wintermute For This Useful Post:


  28. #68

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    First Lance has to earn the $10m per year. We all love Lance, but other GMs might not be willing to drop that much on a player who really only has two years of playing time under his belt, especially one who hasn't behaved for anyone other than Bird and the Pacers. I can't imagine Lance getting more than what OJ Mayo and Monta Ellis got last off-season ($8m per).

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to PacersHomer For This Useful Post:


  30. #69
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Age
    28
    Posts
    17,383

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I had a big post done and then realized - are you talking about the lineup for NEXT season (2014-2015)?
    Yeah, for sure. There's no reason to trade anyone off this team now. I wasn't going to bring it up at all, but the Lance contract talk is already here, so I put in my two cents. It's definitely a post littered with "ifs".

  31. #70

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    I am not sure where PGs contract is once he makes the All NBA team but I'm going to assume it starts at 18m. The LT is said to be at 75.7M next year which is what Bird says we are willing to pay.

    George 18
    Hibbert 15
    West 12
    Hill 8
    Scola 4.5
    Mahinmi 4
    Copeland 3.1
    Watson 2.1
    S. Hill 1.3
    Sloan 1
    Johnson 1

    This puts us at 70M if I'm doing the math correctly. No way Lance signs for 5.7M, so yes Vnzla was right when saying Copelands contract could hurt us. We must trade Copeland, Scola, of Mahinmi in order to afford Lance in my estimations. I believe Lance will cost around 8m next year. Maybe with the way West, Hill structured contracts we can structure Lance's with a drastic change later in the contract (I.e. 5 year 40m - 5m, 7m, 8m, 9m, 11m). Anyone know if this would be allowed in order to stay under the Lt?

  32. #71

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The thing is who means more to the team: Lance or Danny?
    Obviously at this point Lance is more important. Especially if you think about age and long term. The question is can we afford Lance even after letting Danny walk? Will be interesting. Lets win the title this year first and see if that allows the owners to afford going over the LT for a year or two!

  33. #72
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583
    Mood

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    It'll definitely be interesting to see where this ends up.

  34. #73
    Member ejwallace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    836
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance wants 5 yr Max Contract

    There are a lot of people on here talking about filling out the bench if we sign Lance or Danny etc etc....Keep in mind that IF we keep playing like we are, and we can best the Heat, AND win a championship with this team, ALL THE WHILE maintaining our starting 5 with Scola still coming off the bench, would there not be veteran players willing to take a pay cut, ala Ray Allen, to get a legit run at a title?? I mean, sure we'd be picking up some older players at the end of their careers, but you preserve your championship core...Hell, who's to say that DG33 wouldn't give us a discount to get that ring with a team that has backed him since day one? There are plenty of players out there to fill spots with, even if they are players off the wire....There are so many what ifs, and possibilities, that it is almost painful to even begin to look at this situation this far out. Let the chips fall and see what happens....injuries, trades, and millions of other possible factors come into play....there are just too many unknowns at this point to even make a logical guess....

  35. #74
    Member Sparhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,227

    Default Re: INDYSTAR: Lance Stephenson contract situation

    I think Lance will end up getting $7-$8M/yr over 4-5 years.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •