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Thread: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    really?

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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    I think I'm too in love to focus on this argument any longer...

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  4. #353
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Where is the ignorance?

    I boiled it down a couple of posts back so where is the ignorance in that? Why are we being called ignorant?
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    If that was the case then the thread would have died 4 pages ago.

    NO one saying that TS% alone says anything more than the shooting efficiency of a player. Absolutely no one. That's what I was saying in the start of the thread when I was talking about taking the stat "at face value".

    I absolutely agree that TS% is a small part of a much larger puzzle. I never argued anything else.
    With all due respect (and I do mean that), my problem with stats is that they lack meaningful value when I see Troy Murphy's stats. It does mean something...but I don't think it tells you anything really useful.

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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    McKeyFan is way better than this as well but that doesn't stop him from acting condescending in the last few pages.
    Oh come on... Where else would you get a comment about Amish bonnets?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  9. #356
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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     photo statsandfatgirl.jpg

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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I am talking about an individual's contribution to the efficiency of team shooting. You could only include the obvious measurable aspect of the individual's contribution to team shooting efficiency by throwing the ball in the basket, but you could also include what he does as an individual to affect the team's shooting efficiency.

    I was asked to list things that would affect "efficiency." I was not asked to narrow it to individual or team efficiency. You might say it was implied, but it wasn't for me.
    I understand what you're saying. The issue is that there is a very big difference between team statistics and individual statistics. Individual statistics have been tracked for a very long time and they are much easier to keep track of. Team statistics are not that easy to keep track of. Advanced team statistics are still in their infant form.

    I am sure that one can see if a player helps his team's shooting efficiency if you start looking at on/off stats and ORTg and tries to cross match them with this player's passing stats in the new Player Tracker. I am sure that looking through various data and watching that player on the court would enable you (and me) to make an educated guess about said player.

    But still that doesn't change the fact that what you're talking about is a team statistic when what TS% measures is an individual statistic. As I said before, it's just two different things.
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    McKeyFan is way better than this as well but that doesn't stop him from acting condescending in the last few pages.
     photo statshumor-1.jpg
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    With all due respect (and I do mean that), my problem with stats is that they lack meaningful value when I see Troy Murphy's stats. It does mean something...but I don't think it tells you anything really useful.
    It's not useful to know how efficient a player scores? So who cares right? Might as well shoot 50 times a game if your PG... if you only make 15 shots it isn't that big of a deal, because efficiency doesn't matterrrr.
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Hahahaha

    Funniest thread ever

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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    With all due respect (and I do mean that), my problem with stats is that they lack meaningful value when I see Troy Murphy's stats. It does mean something...but I don't think it tells you anything really useful.
    Statistics are data. Data does not lack value. It's important to know the data. The problem is that people misinterpret the data and reach the wrong conclusions.
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I freely admit that my sense of humor is wildly different than most which leads to several people believing that I lack that attribute
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    By the way, I'll note the double-standard, of being told someone is 'better than this' over something relatively mild, by someone who is one of the forum's bigger vnzla81 apologists.

    Reading into it a little further, maybe he is being consistent after all... maybe he knows V isn't 'better than this' while some of us are....

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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Oh come on... Where else would you get a comment about Amish bonnets?
    It did make me look it up and learn what the heck Amish bonnets are
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    With all due respect (and I do mean that), my problem with stats is that they lack meaningful value when I see Troy Murphy's stats. It does mean something...but I don't think it tells you anything really useful.
    Depends on what stats you look there are plenty to look that show most of his stats were hollow,

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    With all due respect (and I do mean that), my problem with stats is that they lack meaningful value when I see Troy Murphy's stats. It does mean something...but I don't think it tells you anything really useful.
    I disgree. The stats told a lot - they just didn't tell why JOB used him the way he sid. Those stats are perfectly in line with using Murphy as a stretch 4 in a lineup with 4 strong defenders in particular a center who can guard the lane. Turn off the bias and imagine him coming off the bench into a defense heavy second string that needs outside shooting.

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  25. #367
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    By the way, I'll note the double-standard, of being told someone is 'better than this' over something relatively mild, by someone who is one of the forum's bigger vnzla81 apologists.

    Reading into it a little further, maybe he is being consistent after all... maybe he knows V isn't 'better than this' while some of us are....
    I don't expect you calling someone ignorant if that is what you mean.

    And I did feel insulted by it and didn't think it was called for. I also don't feel you even bothered to try and figure out what I was saying but instead arrived onboard with your face palm graphic and then decided to pile on a time or two with directly pulling out the 'ignorant card'.

    Yes, there are a couple of posters I would expect that from and not care much one way or the other... but I have/had a higher standard/regard for you.
    Last edited by Bball; 11-06-2013 at 08:03 PM.
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I disgree. The stats told a lot - they just didn't tell why JOB used him the way he sid. Those stats are perfectly in line with using Murphy as a stretch 4 in a lineup with 4 strong defenders in particular a center who can guard the lane. Turn off the bias and imagine him coming off the bench into a defense heavy second string that needs outside shooting.

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    You mean like Granger off the bench?
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    You mean like Granger off the bench?
    Our second string isn't defense heavy. It was defense heavy last year but this year it is more balanced.
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I disgree. The stats told a lot - they just didn't tell why JOB used him the way he sid. Those stats are perfectly in line with using Murphy as a stretch 4 in a lineup with 4 strong defenders in particular a center who can guard the lane. Turn off the bias and imagine him coming off the bench into a defense heavy second string that needs outside shooting.

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    I don't think 4 strong defenders can make up for Murphy's weak defense.

    In any case, I also have seen enough of Troy's games to know his shot comes up short in the 4th quarter with regularity. That's just one example where stats fail you. They are accurate at one level, but unless you track that stat by quarter it really doesn't tell most people what they are really looking for.

    Do stats lie? Not really. But by far the majority of people who attempt to use them to make any judgments or conclusions are simply wrong because they misuse them.

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  31. #371
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    BTW, there's a reason why most statisticians have a doctorate. You have to be highly trained and a lot smarter than the average Joe to make any valid conclusions with them.

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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    In any case, I also have seen enough of Troy's games to know his shot comes up short in the 4th quarter with regularity. That's just one example where stats fail you. They are accurate at one level, but unless you track that stat by quarter it really doesn't tell most people what they are really looking for.
    Actually, you can do that. You can break down FG%, 2P%, 3P%, FT%, eFG% and TS% by quarters.
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    BTW, there's a reason why most statisticians have a doctorate. You have to be highly trained and a lot smarter than the average Joe to make any valid conclusions with them.
    That's exactly why I take those stats at face value and do not attempt to draw conclusion out of them.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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  35. #374
    Ain't Happening BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Actually, you can do that. You can break down FG%, 2P%, 3P%, FT%, eFG% and TS% by quarters.
    Yes. Agreed again.

    BTW, here is another reason stats are dangerous to interpret. Let's say Player A is playing for a bad team. You and I both know that good teams try harder against their rivals versus a bad team. Sometimes a coach may rest a player against a team they know they might beat. So, Player A has a pretty easy route to good stats.

    Now, Player B is much better but he's playing for a good team. Other teams are "up" for that competition and try much harder to win. Player B, although much better than Player A, has to contend with tighter defense...and therefore his shooting stats suffer.

    On paper, Player A looks better in all respects. I suppose his team's record is an indication. But even then, we are talking black magic trying to figure out who the better shooter is, simply based on statistics. IOW, good luck and it ain't happening.

  36. #375
    Ain't Happening BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: True Shooting % Explained: Which is more important? A higher FG% or a higher TS%?

    BTW, there is no end to the number of holes you can shoot into conclusions made by novices attempting to be statisticians.

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