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Thread: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    There a new tv contract coming up sometime soon so we probably can't project cap past that.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
    Is that going to affect the Salary Cap in 2014-2015?

    or

    Is that going to affect the Luxury Tax in 2014-2015?

    No matter what...we will be over the Salary Cap.....the question and concern is how much we will be under the LT.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    There a new tv contract coming up sometime soon so we probably can't project cap past that.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
    Does not go into effect until after the 2016 season. So we have this year -2014, next year 2015, and then the year after that 2016 on the current deal.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 11-04-2013 at 04:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    This a great chance for him to become a complete player with others supporting and pushing him. I love his attitue, I hope he develops to the point he has to get minutes because he's clearly better. It's a tremendous opportunity to become a much better player.

    And this is a tribute to Frank, to play his best players regardless of things. It makes him respected with the team, organization, and league. That doesn't always happen. Tribute to Larry to let Frank be the coach, not all GMs would be comfortable enough to do that.

    This is a special team and special time. I almost feel like they deserve to climb the mountain as a reward for doing things the right way. It's pretty rare, I think.
    Last edited by Speed; 11-04-2013 at 03:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Does anyone know what PG24's starting Salary is in 2014-2015?
    Check count55's article: http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...-implications/

    Short answer: between $14.6m (25% max) and $17.5m (30% max). All we know is that Paul said he didn't get the absolute maximum.

    That article also has the projected tax level for 2014-15.

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    Default Re: Candice Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    While I understand your point and can agree to an extent, I think you are being a bit unfair.

    A couple of things set him apart from just being an excellent shooter. First he has good size, second he has an extrmemely quick release, and third he doesn't have to be completely set to make threes. He also can hit shots over good defense because of this.

    So I just think you are selling him a little short

    you're probably right. wouldn't be the first time I sold a player short.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Check count55's article: http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...-implications/

    Short answer: between $14.6m (25% max) and $17.5m (30% max). All we know is that Paul said he didn't get the absolute maximum.

    That article also has the projected tax level for 2014-15.
    I am going to assume that it's the 30% max...which puts the 2014-2015 Salary Cap at $69.7 mil and giving the Pacers roughly $6 mil in Capspace left.

    Unfortunately, this doesn't change my opinion that the Pacers would have to move someone to give us some more breathing room to re-sign Lance.

    Are the Pacers able to offer a 5 year contract compared to a 4 year contract that other Teams can offer?

    I'm trying to figure out what advantage the Teams have in trying to re-sign their 2nd round picks that are entering their 1st UFA contract.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Wouldn't shock me to see us package Copeland and our 1st for another team's future 1st. Or, depending on whose future 1st it is, perhaps Copeland and our 2nd.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I am going to assume that it's the 30% max...which puts the 2014-2015 Salary Cap at $69.7 mil and giving the Pacers roughly $6 mil in Capspace left.

    Unfortunately, this doesn't change my opinion that the Pacers would have to move someone to give us some more breathing room to re-sign Lance.

    Are the Pacers able to offer a 5 year contract compared to a 4 year contract that other Teams can offer?

    I'm trying to figure out what advantage the Teams have in trying to re-sign their 2nd round picks that are entering their 1st UFA contract.
    Personally I'm assuming it's below the 30% but above the 25%, if it were 30% you'd think the reports would be "up to 5/$100 mil" instead of 90. 90's probably shy of the total assuming he meets the supermax requirements obviously. Something like 28% seems likely, but I'm not going to do the math. Pretty sure he got a 5th year player option, which would/could be what knocked a couple percentage points off. it's not my money but I'd rather pinch pennies elsewhere and make something work when the time comes instead of giving him a 5th year out.

    oh, and I really like Candace Buckner. if for nothing else than her writing ability. read that Copeland article, I could see someone that doesn't care at all about the Pacers reading that on their lunch break and legitimately being interested.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Unfortunately, this doesn't change my opinion that the Pacers would have to move someone to give us some more breathing room to re-sign Lance.
    Possibly.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Are the Pacers able to offer a 5 year contract compared to a 4 year contract that other Teams can offer?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I'm trying to figure out what advantage the Teams have in trying to re-sign their 2nd round picks that are entering their 1st UFA contract.
    Interestingly, if we had signed Lance to a 3 year deal instead of 4, he would have been RFA last year (and presumably cheaper). The 4 year deal means he's on a very cheap salary this year, but in hindsight we would probably have been better off signing him to 3.

    The advantage teams have is the same as for any of their FAs - full Bird rights, higher raises, longer deals.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Wouldn't shock me to see us package Copeland and our 1st for another team's future 1st. Or, depending on whose future 1st it is, perhaps Copeland and our 2nd.
    We traded the 2014-2015 1st round pick......I assume that it would be our 2016-2017 1st round pick?

    That's the concern I have here....we have very little assets left to bargain with.

    At this point, I'm willing to look for a salary dump and get back an expiring contract.

    What I'm afraid of is that the Pacers would have to offer OJ as incentive to move Copeland....let's hope that a future 2nd round pick is going to be enough.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-04-2013 at 06:08 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Lets hope we trade him to one of those teams that wanted him less than the Pacers(Pacers made the ESPN thing and offered him more).

    I'm glad we are not playing him though thanks god we have Scola.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Possibly.



    Yes.



    Interestingly, if we had signed Lance to a 3 year deal instead of 4, he would have been RFA last year (and presumably cheaper). The 4 year deal means he's on a very cheap salary this year, but in hindsight we would probably have been better off signing him to 3.

    The advantage teams have is the same as for any of their FAs - full Bird rights, higher raises, longer deals.
    So...the only real advantage is higher raises and longer-deals....the problem is that we are still contrained by the LT and the Simon's mandate to not exceed the LT.

    We're still at Square One where I think that a bigger long-term contract is what Bird has to make without going over the LT. The only way to make such an offer is to clear enough capspace is to move Copeland or Mahinmi.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    what's the limit on UFA deals now? 5 years for the team with Bird Rights, yeah? or is it 4?

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    I think he'll find his way into the rotation, at least in the regular season. I agree with the poster who said West and Scola's minutes will be monitored down the stretch, ditto Danny's.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    It's one of two things. 1) Call it the Croshere factor. He had a fantastic series in the playoffs, but isn't that good. or 2) He is really that good but not shooting well due to the procedure on his knee.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It's one of two things. 1) Call it the Croshere factor. He had a fantastic series in the playoffs, but isn't that good. or 2) He is really that good but not shooting well due to the procedure on his knee.
    I will default to the 2nd option as the likely answer

    I think that Bird is a good judge of talent and that he was brought in accordingly.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It's a combination of three things. 1) Call it the Croshere factor. He had a fantastic series in the playoffs, but isn't that good right now. and 2) He could really be that good but not shooting well currently due to the procedure on his knee. 3) He is not a smashmouth player, and the position of "Stretch 4" should only come into play if Danny gets healthy enough to play the 4 as a backup.
    Expanded.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It's one of two things. 1) Call it the Croshere factor. He had a fantastic series in the playoffs, but isn't that good. or 2) He is really that good but not shooting well due to the procedure on his knee.
    More like the Gerald Green factor, lucky enough to get a long term contract not good enough to play in the NBA for a good team.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    More like the Gerald Green factor, lucky enough to get a long term contract not good enough to play in the NBA for a good team.
    While I'm hoping for better than Gerald Green, I have not seen it. IIRC, we...or at least many of us...thought Gerald was a good pickup.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    More like the Gerald Green factor, lucky enough to get a long term contract not good enough to play in the NBA for a good team.
    Copeland played for the Knicks.....they may not be Elite Level...but they are pretty good.

    But the question then becomes why did he only get "burn" off the bench if he was any good.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I think he'll find his way into the rotation, at least in the regular season. I agree with the poster who said West and Scola's minutes will be monitored down the stretch, ditto Danny's.
    Unfortunately, I think that Copeland was brought in to be a Backup PF to West...and than it all changed when Scola was brought into the fold.

    At this point, Copeland is just a very expensive Backup PF that could play some backup SF minutes as well.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Unfortunately, I think that Copeland was brought in to be a Backup PF to West...and than it all changed when Scola was brought into the fold.

    At this point, Copeland is just a very expensive Backup PF that could play some backup SF minutes as well.
    He's decent insurance if someone goes down, but yes, it is expensive insurance. I hope he gets his shot back because he could be quite a weapon if he ever plays like he did against us.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Copeland played for the Knicks.....they may not be Elite Level...but they are pretty good.

    But the question then becomes why did he only get "burn" off the bench if he was any good.
    Like I've been saying forever he only got playing time because there was no other choice, their bigs were old and all of them got hurt(Rasheed, Thomas and Amare) either one of those guys is healthy and we would not know about the one year wonder Chris Copeland.

    Mike Woodson wouldn't play the guy that many minutes and that is because he is just not that good(same thing is happening with Vogel).

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    We traded the 2014-2015 1st round pick......I assume that it would be our 2016-2017 1st round pick?
    Crap; I forgot about that rule. I wish instead of disallowing the trading of back to back 1sts, they'd just assemble a small council of sorts who could vote on each occasion such a move was proposed (trading a 1st after having already done so the previous year, or a trade involving two or more consecutive firsts) and have them vote on whether or not it's legit or whether it's some out-of-control owner/president/GM who is just screwing the franchise over for the inevitable replacements.

    Guess I'll be thinking just in terms of Cope and a 2nd round pick for a low (projected low, anyway) future 1st. Or perhaps a very high 2nd.

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    Default Re: Candace Buckner: Copeland: Pacers are so deep, no room yet for him in rotation

    You can always just draft for someone else on draft night and then trade the draftee once the new league year starts a couple weeks later. Almost positive that's what we did with the JO for Roy and spare parts swap (remember TJ Ford being our PG of the future?). Once you've drafted a guy he's not a pick anymore obviously, he's a contract, get his signature and ship him wherever. If we had a pick anyway.

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