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Thread: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Don't forget to mention the fact that Danny was scoring option number one while the aforementioned players were all 3rd-4th options who could merely spread the floor. Just my two cents
    Well, that's what I implied with the disctiction between on-ball and off-ball players
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I'd be interested to know how you arrive at that notion. It seems to me higher volume gives you a better chance to warm up and find a groove.
    It's simple. High volume players are the 1st or the 2nd option of their respective teams. They are the ones that opposing defenses gameplan for and they are also the ones that face double coverage a lot. On top of that they are also tasked to take some bail-out shots if their team's offense is struggling. That naturally leads to lower efficiency.

    Low volume players feed off the attention that those high volume players draw and a lot of their attempts are wide open. That's why there is no comparison between someone like Curry and someone like Novak.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That last part is really important, HE WAS but the problem is that some people think he is still an all star.
    No one thinks that he is an All-Star right now.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    How about we convince the team Kyle Korver is on to make him the number one option and see how it goes?
    Do you think this is a bad idea because of what your eyes tell you, or because of a stat?
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    You could also say that the really good shooters just haven't been given an opportunity yet.

    You have a theory. I have a theory. So who's right?


    History proves that when those really good shooters become the 1st option their efficiency plummets.

    Again, that's why Curry is so amazing.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Do you think this is a bad idea because of what your eyes tell you, or because of a stat?
    Both. You should always use every available piece of data in order to make a decision, imo.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Both. You should always use every available piece of data in order to make a decision, imo.
    Wasn't asking you. Nothing personal.
    .

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That last part is really important, HE WAS but the problem is that some people think he is still an all star.
    Who thinks this? Lol

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Who thinks this? Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    most teams would pray to have an all-star as Granger back s soon as possible, we have fans that don't want him to get better/good again
    And Eleazar still think he is as good as Vince Carter lol

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Be aware that if anything positive is said about Granger in a thread about Lance, it will be disagreed with or qualified by one or more of a handful of trusty reasons describing why it can't possibly be relevant anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That last part is really important, HE WAS but the problem is that some people think he is still an all star.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I thanked his post. Danny is a very good player but he needs to take a backseat so Lance can develop with the starters.
    I didn't say you would be the one to bring it up, I just said it would be brought up.

    And as for those thinking Danny will have a problem accepting his role, what in his entire history of professional basketball has made you think that he won't accept his role, whatever it may be? We may differ on what that role will be, but it's pretty clear from his attitude that he will play within whatever role he is given in order to help us win.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Do you think this is a bad idea because of what your eyes tell you, or because of a stat?
    No, that wasn't a joke. I really want to see what would happen as a semi-scientific study.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I didn't say you would be the one to bring it up, I just said it would be brought up.

    And as for those thinking Danny will have a problem accepting his role, what in his entire history of professional basketball has made you think that he won't accept his role, whatever it may be? We may differ on what that role will be, but it's pretty clear from his attitude that he will play within whatever role he is given in order to help us win.
    I'm not sure about that, not long ago he said that he was better starting pretty much telling the Pacers that he wants to start, that doesn't sound to me like somebody that is adjusting to anything.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm not sure about that, not long ago he said that he was better starting pretty much telling the Pacers that he wants to start, that doesn't sound to me like somebody that is adjusting to anything.
    of course he wants to start. Every player wants to start. But more than anything Danny has made it clear that he wants to win. Did you read what his dad said? The guy wants to win the title this year.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm not sure about that, not long ago he said that he was better starting pretty much telling the Pacers that he wants to start, that doesn't sound to me like somebody that is adjusting to anything.
    So, do you think he throws the violent temper tantrum, goes to the newspapers to cut down Lance, holds his breath until he turns blue, or what? I'm intrigued by what you extrapolate from his career into the way he will DESTROY THE PACERS BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm not sure about that, not long ago he said that he was better starting pretty much telling the Pacers that he wants to start, that doesn't sound to me like somebody that is adjusting to anything.
    When did he say that? I'm curious as to the context of the question.

    The only quotes from Danny I remember recently are of the "I'll play where Coach puts me" variety or talking about how excited he was to be able to "come in and let the young guys do the work."

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    When did he say that? I'm curious as to the context of the question.

    The only quotes from Danny I remember recently are of the "I'll play where Coach puts me" variety or talking about how excited he was to be able to "come in and let the young guys do the work."
    I do recall him also saying he felt he could start. Of course, so did Lance. The problem is when people start interpreting "I want to start" as a threat to be disruptive if one doesn't start. If there were a history of it (or refusing to play off the bench), that would be one thing. Without that, it seems to me that it's just a matter of a player aspiring to the position that all players want, which is a starter. I WANT my guys aspiring to that position, especially if I also can trust them to play within what the coach wants. Which is the rub, because Danny has been so disruptive through his career, what with starting the brawl and shooting up downtown and riding around with suspected killers and then successfully shifting the blame to other perfectly innocent players with the excuse that he wasn't even here for most of the incidents (hah!) that you really can't trust anything he says about being OK with whatever role the team needs him for.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    I think this is an early candidate for thread of the year.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    When did he say that? I'm curious as to the context of the question.

    The only quotes from Danny I remember recently are of the "I'll play where Coach puts me" variety or talking about how excited he was to be able to "come in and let the young guys do the work."
    Not really going to look for the article(ask since86 or Nuntius) but what Danny said is that he is better as an starter because he always started (Iverson said the same thing and was trashed) and then he talked about Lance been better off the bench and explained why Lance should stay on the bench, if that was somebody else many here would be cutting their veins but is DG so of course this angel from heaven is never going to say or do anything bad.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Not really going to look for the article(ask since86 or Nuntius) but what Danny said is that he is better as an starter because he always started (Iverson said the same thing and was trashed) and then he talked about Lance been better off the bench and explained why Lance should stay on the bench, if that was somebody else many here would be cutting their veins but is DG so of course this angel from heaven is never going to say or do anything bad.
    Not quite what Danny said.

    “I’ve always started, so obviously I’m more comfortable doing that,” Granger said. “And Lance, he’s more of a playmaker. So when he’s in the second group, I think he actually excels more. He has the ball in his hands, he can make plays. When he’s with the starting group, the ball’s going into the post or Paul [George] has it. I play off the ball a lot.”
    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...tarting-Lineup

    But yeah you can twist words some more, like you always do.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Not quite what Danny said.


    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...tarting-Lineup

    But yeah you can twist words some more, like you always do.
    I'm not twisting words I was just paraphrasing what he said, by the way is really not that much different to what I said, he uses nice words and is all diplomatic but at the end of the day he is saying I want to start and Lance goes to the bench.(note that I'm not going to go 10 pages with this argument either because I know DG's word is sacred around here).

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm not twisting words I was just paraphrasing what he said, by the way is really not that much different to what I said, he uses nice words and is all diplomatic but at the end of the day he is saying I want to start and Lance goes to the bench.(note that I'm not going to go 10 pages with this argument either because I know DG's word is sacred around here).
    No, you are twisting his words and you are doing it again in this post. He's just saying he is more comfortable starting. And what he said about Lance is exactly true and is showing this season, he's a playmaker with the second unit.

    You are suggesting Danny is being diplomatic as some sort of cover rather than because thats how he actually feels. Thats twisting his words right there.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm not twisting words I was just paraphrasing what he said, by the way is really not that much different to what I said, he uses nice words and is all diplomatic but at the end of the day he is saying I want to start and Lance goes to the bench.(note that I'm not going to go 10 pages with this argument either because I know DG's word is sacred around here).
    Fine, but where does that come off as "if I don't get what I want I'm going to ruin everything"?

    What ELSE is he supposed to say? Well, OK, I know YOU want him to say, "no, I can't do this any more, my whole career has been a sham, I suck, I should never have been a number one guy on this team, Lance should start and I should be in street clothes and give my entire salary for my career back to Herb," but other people find an explanation - which, by the way, matches the explanation Lance gave for why he'd be good coming off the bench - to be a long way from disruptive.

    As for the comparison to Iverson, if you remember Iverson as being at all reasonable about why anyone would do better off the bench as opposed to focusing solely, completely, and utterly on the idea that he either starts or nothing, feel free to trot it out. Also find me any place where AI ever said he'd be willing to come off the bench - and by that I mean prior to his pathetic attempt to get back into the NBA.

    But fine. Danny Granger is the Pacer's Allen Iverson - but not in skill, only in that he is so selfish he'd rather blow up the team than come to practice, work with players who might end up better than him, or come off the bench.
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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Danny wants to start.
    Lance wants to come off the bench.
    So the problem is what exactly?
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    From the interviews I've HEARD (inflection holds a lot of value in these situations for me), I think it's pretty obvious Danny wants to start and sees himself as a starter. But he's also fine with being the 6th man if that's what Frank wants. Not necessarily happy with it, but wouldn't create waves or anything. Whole lot of pop psychology involved here, but I think that has as much to do with Danny understanding we can't afford him after this year and he wants to get one last big deal as anything. Not necessarily ego or I gotta get mine type stuff, just hey I gotta show people I can still play. And I don't blame him.

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    Default Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Danny wants to start.
    Lance wants to come off the bench.
    So the problem is what exactly?
    its not what vnzla wants

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